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Main - ROM Hacking - Weird... (Zelda II) New thread | New reply


RetroRain
Posted on 03-22-08 02:46 AM Link | Quote | ID: 80748


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This is really weird, but believe it or not, if you try to edit the "L" tile in the life meter, the game will lock up. Don't know why this happens. But I tried it, and thats exactly what happened.



If you don't believe me, try it for yourself. Just delete the "L" tile on the graphics page that is loaded at the beginning of the game. The game freezes. Now, why would changing a graphic have anything to do with crashing the game?

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blackhole89
Posted on 03-22-08 02:48 AM Link | Quote | ID: 80749


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What do you mean by "deleting it"? Overwrite it with a single colour? Either way, I would check if there are any particular pixels within the tile whose modification is causing that for further research. (Could it be that the bit pattern of the 'L' was used for something entirely unrelated as a shifty way of saving space? Regardless, figuring out the nature and location of the lockup (trace) would help)

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RetroRain
Posted on 03-22-08 02:57 AM Link | Quote | ID: 80750


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The "L" has blue around it, in the original game. What I tried to do, was replace that blue with the background color. When I did, the game froze. Also, if you just select that tile in YY-chr, and just delete it, the game will freeze as well. I guess its possible that the game loads the hex value of the colors used in that particular tile, for some special purpose, probably for what you said, to save space. Even though its a bit weird.

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blackhole89
Posted on 03-22-08 03:00 AM Link | Quote | ID: 80751


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Are you sure it's not just something screwing up from the editing process? (i.e. did you try seeing if it resumed working if you manually drew the original letter back into the tile?)

Either way, I positively would try out if the effect can be pinned out to any particular pixel, row or bitplane of it (does the NES graphics format even have distinct bitplanes?).

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RetroRain
Posted on 03-22-08 03:03 AM Link | Quote | ID: 80753


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Dude, no joke, it has something to do with that tile. Do you have a copy of the ROM? Try it for yourself. Yes, I re-drew the tile, and the game worked fine again.

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blackhole89
Posted on 03-22-08 03:05 AM Link | Quote | ID: 80754


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It's not like I was denying it, just wanted to have that possibility covered.

So did you try to see if the effect could be pinned to any subset of the tile yet?

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RetroRain
Posted on 03-22-08 03:09 AM (rev. 6 of 03-22-08 03:52 AM) Link | Quote | ID: 80755


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The second to last line at the bottom of the tile. I'm testing each pixel now.

EDIT - I'm not sure which pixel, but if you blank out certain pixels, the game will freeze.



EDIT 2 - I tried it on a different ROM, and nothing happened. So I decided to make a video.



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CKY-9K
Posted on 03-22-08 08:01 AM Link | Quote | ID: 80774


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Same reason of why super mario bros fucks up if you delete a certain set of pixels on the sprite coin block.

It's this thing called "sprite boundry detection" or something like that uses to use the untransparent part of the sprite for like a game bar or something.

The NES has 1 tile layer, so there's no possible way to make some type of overlay to present inventory, or status bar or whatever, so there's some coding for games that do screen scrolling, to do some type of thing during the process to make the status bar always stay static on position even though the rest of the layer is moving.

I forgot what the technical shit about it was called but there.

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Dwedit
Posted on 03-22-08 08:46 AM (rev. 2 of 03-22-08 08:46 AM) Link | Quote | ID: 80778


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The game is waiting for the bottom of the L tile to collide with sprite #0. It is willing to wait as long as it takes. If you delete that part of the tile, it will still keep waiting, even if it never happens.

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Ice Penguin
Posted on 03-22-08 08:50 AM (rev. 2 of 03-22-08 09:24 AM) Link | Quote | ID: 80781


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Ah, this happens -a lot- when trying to edit the HUD.



See that little red line where the "L" used to be? That is the culprit. If you get rid of that, the game doesn't load.

With what Dwedit said, I would say that the "L" needs to be touching the red line. I've moved everything around quite a bit, and
the game only works if that red line is touched or overlapped by the "L".

I could be wrong though, which is most likely the case.

Trax
Posted on 03-22-08 10:14 AM Link | Quote | ID: 80782


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Wow... Just like a single atom could prevent life to form on Earth...
So those tiles have transparency that is used to compute something...

Hamtaro126
Posted on 03-22-08 08:52 PM Link | Quote | ID: 80803


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I know why the L and stuff is locking up your game, If you go to $200 in the RAM in FCEUXD or NNNESTERJ, You will see that editing it will also lock up the game, Therefore, It uses Sprite 0 (just like SMB1) for the Status bar.

That is why I tried to add an IRQ to SMB using 4-screen Mirroring, But adding an IRQ is too hard for me, Because the routine that NESDEV gave me does not work.

(and if possible, I could give SMB2USA using SMB3's statusbar stuff, But as with above, It's too hard for me to implent)

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CKY-9K
Posted on 03-22-08 09:22 PM Link | Quote | ID: 80805


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Posted by Hamtaro126
I know why the L and stuff is locking up your game, If you go to $200 in the RAM in FCEUXD or NNNESTERJ, You will see that editing it will also lock up the game, Therefore, It uses Sprite 0 (just like SMB1) for the Status bar.

That is why I tried to add an IRQ to SMB using 4-screen Mirroring, But adding an IRQ is too hard for me, Because the routine that NESDEV gave me does not work.

(and if possible, I could give SMB2USA using SMB3's statusbar stuff, But as with above, It's too hard for me to implent)



I JUST SAID THAT YOU FUCKING FAGGOT

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Ice Penguin
Posted on 03-22-08 10:30 PM Link | Quote | ID: 80813


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Yikes!

optomon
Posted on 03-23-08 02:48 AM Link | Quote | ID: 80832


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Posted by CKY-2K
Posted by Hamtaro126
I know why the L and stuff is locking up your game, If you go to $200 in the RAM in FCEUXD or NNNESTERJ, You will see that editing it will also lock up the game, Therefore, It uses Sprite 0 (just like SMB1) for the Status bar.

That is why I tried to add an IRQ to SMB using 4-screen Mirroring, But adding an IRQ is too hard for me, Because the routine that NESDEV gave me does not work.

(and if possible, I could give SMB2USA using SMB3's statusbar stuff, But as with above, It's too hard for me to implent)



I JUST SAID THAT YOU FUCKING FAGGOT


Except his words are more decipherable, and he didn't use that god awful font.

Trax
Posted on 03-23-08 10:33 AM Link | Quote | ID: 80847


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So what exactly is Sprite 0 ?

Kawa
Posted on 03-23-08 10:45 AM Link | Quote | ID: 80848


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Exactly that. The first sprite in the list.

If I remember correctly, the trick was that the detection triggers if that sprite overlaps any nonzero background element.

For example, Sprite Zero is the lower bit of a coin in SMB, while the entire coin is in the background tilemap. That way it triggers when the status bar is done drawing, so the game can scroll from that point down.

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jargon
Posted on 03-24-08 08:07 AM (rev. 2 of 03-24-08 08:12 AM) Link | Quote | ID: 80879


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Sprite Zero :

This is reserved in most retail games for special features.

Thus why most home-brew tutorials leave it blank.

If you home-brew a game, always leave tile/sprite 0 blank, unless you actually intend to use it for one of the prior mentioned methods in a post above.

-edit-

This goes for semi-serious sprite artists. Try to leave the top-left most 8x8 pixels in a 256x256 sprite/tile sheet blank. (0x00 for each of the first 8px's wide of the first 8 scanlines.)

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Kawa
Posted on 03-24-08 11:11 AM Link | Quote | ID: 80895


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Posted by jargon
This is reserved in most retail games for special features.
Explain yourself or stop talking.

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Main - ROM Hacking - Weird... (Zelda II) New thread | New reply

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