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04-20-24 01:56 AM |
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| Main - ROM Hacking - SNES F-Zero editor project | New thread | Thread closed |
| smkdan |
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 Ninji Level: 36 Posts: 101/238 EXP: 288500 Next: 19610 Since: 05-26-07 Last post: 4056 days Last view: 4005 days |
Since I don't want to hijack the image thread I'd like to continue posting stuff about it here.
Heian: I haven't touched that site in quite a while, but I got some physics data up there now. http://smkdan.eludevisibility.org/fzero.html#Physics As for BG GFX, I know the layout it works in but I don't want to implement anything until I have some sort of integrated tilemap editor. You want to edit things at the 2x2 level? There are currently 2368 combinations of them, so even working through the existing set seems kind of strenuous. I think panel editing will be necessary, but it would be quite awkward dealing with the format it's laid out in. I noticed that some panels are fairly modular, but some are part of a more complex layout. I borrowed some more...inspiration from LM with this single panel selector. The interface can move selected chunks of panels, but this works in similar fashion to the 'Add X window'. 
This looks like you can just slap it down in any straightway that lines up, but then there's all these panels that are not so modular. 
Those odd strips in fire field show that I still have to get the 7F:4000 mine maps in there. I think I should make some simple layouts that fit eachother well so people wouldn't have to fish around for panels that fit what they're after. I will have 'import from file / other tracks' for most of the data for convenience. The palette editor is just about done, you can edit most / all of the palettes there are to edit in the game, including shock palettes, menus and the title: 
I'll post stuff as it comes along. |
| Raccoon Sam |
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 Cobrat Level: 56 Posts: 407/672 EXP: 1379325 Next: 18851 Since: 02-19-07 From: Hi Last post: 3461 days Last view: 2692 days |
Looks really spiffy!
Fantastic job. ____________________ |
| Lord Myre |
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 Cheep-cheep Level: 33 Posts: 69/199 EXP: 219737 Next: 9442 Since: 07-12-07 From: Orlando Last post: 5278 days Last view: 4918 days |
Posted by Raccoon Sam Seconded. ____________________ "This Island Earth can be yours, if The Price is Right!" -Tom Servo |
| blackhole89 |
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 The Guardian Moloch whose eyes are a thousand blind windows! Level: 124 Posts: 1406/4196 EXP: 21522005 Next: 314596 Since: 02-19-07 From: Ithaca, NY, US Last post: 465 days Last view: 77 days |
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| Heian |
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 Red Koopa Level: 27 Posts: 84/126 EXP: 111832 Next: 4327 Since: 03-08-07 Last post: 5840 days Last view: 5840 days |
Dan, this is going to be a lot of fun!
I agree that the primary problem with the big "panels" is the positioning of the stuff on the edges. When I tried to make courses in Maximum Velocity, it was almost impossible to get the barriers to line up exactly right -- they're 16 pixels in diameter, and that plus the shadow plus the course surface type has to line up! It was impossible, but wouldn't be if we took pre-existing panels and just edited the bits on the corners. In your Fire Field panel, for example, the top left and bottom left would need to be tweaked so that the half-barrier-circle on the top left were a whole one, and the one on the bottom left, where 5/16 of a barrier is visible, could maybe be turned into plain track, with the panel below lining up with the barrier circle to the left of that partial one. This is where being able to move little 2x2 macro-tiles would be handy. I don't think 2368 of them is too many -- it's less than 10 "pages" of the 255 in Climax, and we could separate them into plain course, barrier parts, dirt, and so on. Or you could set up a "main page" of a few hundred that are easy to link to other tiles, with all the "5/16 barrier + magnetic bit + two specks of dirt" complex ones in a separate menu. If you want to use my edited palettes as samples for people to work with, please do. I can send you my hack again if you don't have it. This is going to be a great project! |
| smkdan |
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Ninji Level: 36 Posts: 102/238 EXP: 288500 Next: 19610 Since: 05-26-07 Last post: 4056 days Last view: 4005 days |
Thanks for the comments.
BH89: The levels consist of a 32x16 tilemap each referencing 256x256 panels for a 8192x4096 track. The smallest unit of a panel is a 2x2 metatile, but perhaps these tiles will be editable too. One of odd things about this is that rows are shared quite alot which means if you edit one row, you'll end up modifying every panel that references that row. I haven't looked at f-zero on the spc end, only the routine which selects the music to play. Heian: Editing the panels will be fairly tricky, since if you want it to not modify any other panel like I said above you need to copy the data by creating new row data (consisting of references to the 2x2 tiles) and then sticking it into some panel slot (of which panels contain 16 of these new, unique rows). I could implement these 2x2 cells on a per track basis, didn't think much of it then. The patch actually disregards the original data of the ROM, since it assumes that all modifications done to the ROM were done within the editor. It opens what it expects to be a fresh, unmodified ROM (the patch contains the default data). Also, mines were easier than I thought to get in there. One issue is that the mine panels can't be duplicated easily since each panel with mines on it is unique. It needs to be unique since the row data is written when the mine blows up, and when you have the same panels referencing the same rows the explosions on track will be duplicated....  |
| Heian |
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Red Koopa Level: 27 Posts: 85/126 EXP: 111832 Next: 4327 Since: 03-08-07 Last post: 5840 days Last view: 5840 days |
SMKDan, this is looking excellent.
BTW, any newcomers who want to check out the original 2004 F-Zero hacking thread in which it took a bunch of us several months to suss out what SMKDan has done much more efficiently, have a look: http://acmlm.no-ip.org/archive2/thread.php?id=821 Regarding editing parts of the rows, I was under the impression that the most troublesome rows would be one-of-a-kind and that we could safely mess with them knowing that the other tracks would remain intact. What about creating new rows? Will there be enough space to define new ones? If there are 0x940 (2368) rows, can we define number 0941, 0942, etc. as we like? Did you figure out what's going on with the animation in some of the little background tiles, such as the moving water/grass/sand, or the buildings below the track in Mute City? It looked like the bits of data in between each tile graphic were connected to that, but I never got it solved. And needless to say, I'd love to beta-test your application as soon as it's ready! |
| Omega45889 |
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 Red Paratroopa Level: 31 Posts: 40/178 EXP: 182983 Next: 2380 Since: 01-18-08 Last post: 5476 days Last view: 4783 days |
Nice work! Whats it written in? Looks like the Java to me.
Do you plan to open source it? I would love to have a look at someone else's editor. Theres not a whole lot of open source editors out there. |
| Raccoon Sam |
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Cobrat Level: 56 Posts: 410/672 EXP: 1379325 Next: 18851 Since: 02-19-07 From: Hi Last post: 3461 days Last view: 2692 days |
Posted by Omega45889 Well, the symbol in the upper left corner of this window doesn't look Java-related. And yeah, Open-Sourcing it sounds great. ____________________ |
| Kawa |
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 CHIKKN NI A BAAZZKIT!!! 80's Cheerilee is best pony Level: 138 Posts: 744/5344 EXP: 30929147 Next: 733834 Since: 02-20-07 From: The Netherlands Last post: 4492 days Last view: 2627 days |
Posted by Raccoon SamIndeed. Looks more like .Net to me. ____________________ Wife make lunch - Shampoo Opera - give it a spin Spare some of your free time? <GreyMaria> I walked around the Lake so many goddamn times that my sex drive was brutally murdered Kawa rocks  — byuu |
| Heian |
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Red Koopa Level: 27 Posts: 86/126 EXP: 111832 Next: 4327 Since: 03-08-07 Last post: 5840 days Last view: 5840 days |
SMKDan, I just read your revised notes with the car physics -- surprisingly simple! Definitely worth looking into making new, more balanced, cars.
One thing I'm sure everyone wil want to do is edit track names. IIRC, the track names are handled as sprites (or something else unusual) and not as ordinary text. Any information on that? Going a little off-topic here, but this is a great F-Zero music remix that I'm grooving on these days: http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01672/ I went over Dan's documents while listening to that! And if anyone's interested in having a go at changing the sprites, here are some ripped originals for reference: http://www.spriters-resource.com/nintendo/other/fzero/" I tried getting the BSFZII sprites into the original once, and failed badly.
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| deespence2929 |
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 Goomba Level: 13 Posts: 7/23 EXP: 8502 Next: 1765 Since: 01-13-08 Last post: 5802 days Last view: 5801 days |
So, since you know so much about F-zero 1, can you open up those bs F-zeros and maybe see what their track layouts are supposed to loook like? Only one of the bs f-zeros is actually playable. I'm curious what those other tracks would look like. |
| smkdan |
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Ninji Level: 36 Posts: 103/238 EXP: 288500 Next: 19610 Since: 05-26-07 Last post: 4056 days Last view: 4005 days |
Heian: There aren't 2368 rows, there are 2368 2x2 tile layouts. If I put track specific support in there then it would allow 2368 unique tiles per track. I might not have been clear, but there is unique data per track as far as panels and rows are concerned. Each track has a unique set of 256 panels of which about 150 of these can be composed of completely unique rows (not sharing, that is).
The animation on track is done with the palette entirely. The 'Edit cycling' radio button makes sets of 8 colors flash to represent whether they are cycled or not. You just click an 8 color set to toggle cycling. I have custom track names, but the game's font is missing letters... 
Omega45889: I'm writing this in C# targetting .NET 2.0. I haven't been using it for long enough for source to be of benefit to anyone. It would actually do more harm to people if they dared use it as a learning resource. deespence2929: The BS F-Zero games are a really low priority at the moment, I don't know if i'll ever get around to it. |
| Heian |
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Red Koopa Level: 27 Posts: 87/126 EXP: 111832 Next: 4327 Since: 03-08-07 Last post: 5840 days Last view: 5840 days |
SMKDan, my mistake, I got the rows and macro-tiles mixed up. If each track has 150 rows to work with, we should have room for new ones -- some of those courses, such as the smple Death Wind, don't use that many.
Deespence, while only one of the F-Zero 2 versions is playable, that's the only one you would want to play. That one contains alll new tracks, whereas the other Leagues that were creaated contain one new track plus several existing tracks. If you want to play Mute City IV, Big Blue II, etc., you want that one perfect BSFZII -- there are only five new courses in total. |
| smkdan |
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Ninji Level: 36 Posts: 104/238 EXP: 288500 Next: 19610 Since: 05-26-07 Last post: 4056 days Last view: 4005 days |
Death Wind uses the least with the last panel at 47. White Land 1+2's last panel 179, and it uses almost all of the row data...It really varies.
I added some function to the interface. Right click held drags a series of panels and left click lays down the selected region. I think it works decently. Here's a quick test I made with it. Presenting death wind junior:  |
| Raccoon Sam |
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Cobrat Level: 56 Posts: 415/672 EXP: 1379325 Next: 18851 Since: 02-19-07 From: Hi Last post: 3461 days Last view: 2692 days |
Looks pretty awesome so far..!
One question though.. What about the in-game minimap? How does the path data for the player indicating dot work? ____________________ |
| smkdan |
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Ninji Level: 36 Posts: 105/238 EXP: 288500 Next: 19610 Since: 05-26-07 Last post: 4056 days Last view: 4005 days |
Thanks Racoon Sam.
The minimap is a 32x64 2bpp image which I've accomodated for in the ROM, but still have to manage in the editor (there's alot to go). The dot itself is taken from the player position on track / 128, so there's nothing strange happening there (8192, 4096 /128 = 64, 32). |
| Heian |
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Red Koopa Level: 27 Posts: 88/126 EXP: 111832 Next: 4327 Since: 03-08-07 Last post: 5840 days Last view: 5840 days |
Go, Dan, go!
Will this editor eventually give us a chance to indicate the places where the AI is expected to drive? Maybe dots on the course or an X-Y chart? How about gridlines between the panels? That might make things easier to manage. I'd forgotten that some of the letters were missing from the font. At least there are 26 or so spaces to work with. If we can't give distinctive names to tracks, there will end up being a new "MUTE CITY VI" and such for every hacker. Raccoon Sam, the black-and-white minimaps are actually visible in regular graphics editors and were presumably created separately and not automatically generated from the track parts. I wouldn't mind having to draw them manually. Getting a little greedy here, but how hard would it be to have a search function that pulls up potentially-connectable panels when you're in that PanelSelector screen? For example, if you're building a course and the most recent panel has barriers at (say) the 4th and 13th rows, and you want to find panels with barriers close to this so that you can extend the course? |
| Raccoon Sam |
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Cobrat Level: 56 Posts: 416/672 EXP: 1379325 Next: 18851 Since: 02-19-07 From: Hi Last post: 3461 days Last view: 2692 days |
Posted by Heian Yeah, me neither..! I'm getting all hyped here, can't wait to get my hands on the game, I want to hack it to death. Keep on workin' ____________________ |
| Heian |
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Red Koopa Level: 27 Posts: 90/126 EXP: 111832 Next: 4327 Since: 03-08-07 Last post: 5840 days Last view: 5840 days |
Posted by Raccoon SamPosted by Heian Those maps are around position 791A0 in the ROM if you want to have a look at them. If their creation can't be automated, we can just make them in a graphic editor with some trial and error. I'm envisioning a group effort with each person making a few tracks. The higher the quality, the greater the chances that our tracks will be played by fans all over the world. This'll be quite a bit harder than Climax and its ready-made pieces, but should be a lot more challenging and fun! |
| Main - ROM Hacking - SNES F-Zero editor project | New thread | Thread closed |
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