Originally posted by Rydain

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Hoo boy. It looks like I have to do Phantomrain's homework for him. *cracks knuckles* Funny how all of these issues are addressed in great detail at the talkorigins.org archive, which I have already posted a link to and told people to read so they understand what they are arguing against instead of trotting out a bunch of strawmen, and I still get a bunch of strawmen anyway.

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No. Scientists define macroevolution as evolution above the species level, and the definition says nothing about reasons for this change, known or otherwise.

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o rly? Heck, speciation has been observed many times in the wild and in laboratory settings.

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Survey sez...BZZZZZT! Populations of bacteria develop antibiotic resistance that ultimately arises as the result of mutations. This is a very well-documented problem that pharmaceutical companies struggle with. How exactly are those mutations "always harmful, never helpful" to the bacteria?

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This smells like more circumstantial ad hominem to me. What does the political spectrum have to do with the fossil record? And why do you insist on a reference from a history text and not a biology text, considering that evolution belongs to the realm of biology? Besides, a whole slew of transitional fossils have been found.

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As for the Miller-Urey experiment, it is completely irrelevant to the issue of evolution. As I have stated, and as the talkorigins.org archive explains, evolution is the change in genetic makeup of populations over time. That's it. It has nothing whatsoever to do with how life came to exist on earth in the first place.

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Also, to those who confuse Roman Catholicism with Christianity, bear with me.

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Roman Catholosism, though originally Christian has fallen away from the Truth of the gospel and has become a politically correct group of people who want to be religious. They believe things which are contrary to the Bible and though many Roman Catholics are Christians, many more are not because they have never been taught the Truth of Jesus' redeeming Grace.

For example, Roman Catholics believe that they must confess their sins to a priest and that they must do penance in order to be absolved of their sins. This is incorrect. "For by Grace you have been saved, through Faith. It is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8 "For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit."

These verses, if you believe in the Bible, make it clear that there is no need for confession to a priest or for penance, as Christ already paid for all your sins.

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Think of it this way; let's say that someone gave you a gift. Let’s say that they paid for that gift already. However, you decide that you're going to pay for the gift again. Only one problem, the gift cost this person 100 million dollars and you not only don't have 100 million dollars, you have no money, no home no car no nothing. All you have are the clothes on your back and some food stamps. Now, let me ask you, if that person already paid for that gift, paid for it in cash and paid for all of it down to the last cent, do you need to pay for it? No, you don't. Not only do you not have to pay for it, even if you wanted to, you couldn't. That's like how Salvation works. We have been given a "gift" by the almighty God. It’s called Salvation. This gift is, as the definition of a gift makes clear, free to us. God has already paid for it by sending his Son, Jesus, to die on the cross for our sins (all those bad things we do). Here’s the catch, we can't pay for that gift. 1) Because it's already been paid for in full and 2) because even if we tried we would fall far short of God's perfect standard. Yes, that's right I said perfect. What’s perfect mean? It means sinless, without blemish or spot, perfectly clean, sanctified, blameless. Now I ask you, is that you? Have you eve told a white lie or gone 1 mile over the speed limit? Have you ever had bad feelings toward someone else or hurt someone other than in self-defense? Well guess what? that means you're not perfect, which means *drum roll please* that you cannot pay for your sins no matter how many hail mary's and our father's you say, not matter how much community service you put in.

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Another thing which has been made up by the Roman Catholic Church is the idea of purgatory. This is the place where those not fortunate to go directly to heaven stay until they have paid for their sins. I ask you this; where in the Bible does it say ANYTHING about purgatory? Purgatory was invented many many many many many years ago (several hundred actually) in order to frighten the tenants of the Roman Catholic faith into working their butts off for no good reason to try to get to heaven. Again I mention that you cannot pay for your sins, and that yes indeed you have sinned "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23

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Originally posted by Silvershield

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Originally posted by drjayphd

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cds113089: Catholics believe that you cannot earn your way into heaven and that the only way to get to heaven is by the salvation Christ offered.

...which is precisely what rankles me about fundamentalist Christianity, the belief that acceptance is all you need. But that's another topic for another thread.

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To look to a cliche for an example, would anyone here suppose that a person from some distant, uncivilized part of the world is destined to burn for eternity just because he hasn't accepted Christ, even though he has no contact with Christianity (or any Western religion, for that matter)? To live a good life and treat one's neighbors with unconditional love is all that God asks of us, though to believe in Him makes that path infinitely easier.

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