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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - - Posts by Moppy |
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Moppy Red Goomba                   Since: 09-26-06 From: Rochester, NY Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6292 days |
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Recently I started working on this little project of mine again. The question is.. how many people would use it? I've come a fairly long way with it, but there's still a lot of work to be done. Here are some screenshots of the current debug version.
Map Editor, viewing the map you fall onto after the intro scene. Still pretty messy, particularly the list of objects. 
World Map Editor. 
Audio Sample Editor. There's also a music tracker, but work on it has been suspended until I can figure out why Fmod EX won't set the sample loop points correctly. I have a lot of other data collected that I haven't bothered making quick little GUIs for yet. I hope to make it capable of writing an entirely new game in the SOM engine, as well as making some modifications to the engine itself (SOM is perhaps one of the buggiest RPGs I have come across). So what do you think? |
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Moppy Red Goomba  Since: 09-26-06 From: Rochester, NY Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6292 days |
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| I have considered expanding its capabilities to other games--I believe the Earthbound editor PK Hack supports multiple games as well :p but I'd say one game at a time for now.
Aside from having played through it a few times, I don't really know anything about SOE, but I'll take a look at the info if you want to send it. I'm spongem0p (that 0 is a zero) on AIM, and umokumok@hotmail.com on MSN. I also have some SOM details that need to be ironed out if anyone is interested in helping. |
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Moppy Red Goomba Since: 09-26-06 From: Rochester, NY Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6292 days |
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Yeah  They were 3bpp down by the rest of the tiles, I didn't see them because I was viewing tiles at an offset where I couldn't see them--ie, off by 8 bytes. Finding those tiles fixed a LOT of maps with 3bpp graphics. |
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Moppy Red Goomba Since: 09-26-06 From: Rochester, NY Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6292 days |
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| As far as I know no one has done a 3-player mod for SD3. However there is a 2-player one for SOE as you said, and it works pretty well. I think it's by FuSoYa, he also did a VWF for SOM.
SOM does have its problems--one of the things that's always really bothered me is that if P2 or P3 get stuck behind something, you can't move forward until you go back and "unstick" them. Later SD games generally let you scroll them off, and if they go too far, they'll just run through walls and stuff to catch you. I've also had the whip platforms throw me into a wall on occasion; the only way out was to switch characters and step on it again, which warped all three characters there. Hopefully these sorts of things will be automatically fixable through SOM Edit. The idea of more available characters, ala SD3, while not out of the question for SOM, would be a pain in the ass to implement. It's something to think about, but it would involve a new set of about 500 tiles, definitions for how to organize them into character graphics, changes to rom/memory/saveram to store their stats, etc. Since SOM is only 16 megabit, SOM Edit automatically expands the rom to 32 megabit and moves some stuff around for you. This is one of the things I like about SOM compared to later, lengthier games--I have a lot more space to work with. |
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Moppy Red Goomba  Since: 09-26-06 From: Rochester, NY Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6292 days |
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| Nice job, but the increased gravity is unimaginably frustrating. It would be nice to see a modification of one of the GBA Metroids with Smetroid-like gameplay, as I always felt it to be superior. | |||
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Moppy Red Goomba Since: 09-26-06 From: Rochester, NY Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6292 days |
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Originally posted by d4s Yes! I forgot about this. Typically games will put the percussion and sound effects on the same channel, so that if you lose anything, it's a drum here and there, and you don't really notice. However SOM's percussion is generally on channel 1, and sound effects use higher channels. I could reorganize the music easily enough to fix this, or just change what channel the sound effects play on. 2P/3P characters getting stuck is a problem that I found the code for once upon a time... Simply removing the boundary and letting you scroll them off works under some circumstances, but it can screw with the screen scrolling if they go too far off screen. Checking if they're off and making them warp or walk through walls is probably the best option. Or maybe I can fix the scrolling problem and let you just leave them wherever they sit. SOM does have some palette glitches as I recall, I forgot exactly what triggers them. Certain things like the palette flash effect on weapon energy recharge can cause that stuff to look funny for a second, though I forgot if it ever sticks.  For example. However when I come back out of the menu it goes away.
The tilted mode 7 flight effect has a bug as well where a corner of the top section of the "surface" will show map data from somewhere far away, or behind you, or something. It's not that noticeable since it's under the white horizon mist stuff, but it always bothered me. It was the result of an unchecked subtraction underflow, and I actually fixed it a couple days ago.  Here's a picture of it, notice the land mass in the upper left corner, which doesn't actually exist. |
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Moppy Red Goomba Since: 09-26-06 From: Rochester, NY Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6292 days |
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| It's what I do, I guess. :p
By the way, the sleeping thing depends on where you talk to the inn NPC. The characters walk a set distance to the left, and if you were left of the NPC, they'll be off the bed to the left. :p (edited by Moppy on 09-27-06 10:02 PM) |
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Moppy Red Goomba Since: 09-26-06 From: Rochester, NY Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6292 days |
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| I dunno that I'd bother. I'd rather let everyone else screw around with it and play the games they make. =p
I'm probably better off subtracting the x distance between you and the innkeeper off of the distance you walk to get to bed.. if I limited it to a certain position, it would be difficult to talk to him--keep in mind this is based on pixel-wise location, not a grid, so it's pretty precise. I guess I could always move you to the center position when you talk to him, too. Eh. It's a harmless bug to begin with anyways =p |
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Moppy Red Goomba Since: 09-26-06 From: Rochester, NY Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6292 days |
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Well, I'm in the middle of researching about a million things at once right now. The other day I got sprite formations loading:
and today after a look at the code SOM uses to decompress the title screen, I got that loading too: 
I hope that in time anything you could possibly consider editing in the game will be editable. Expansion for most things should not be difficult, new enemies and characters however are tricky because of the number of structures and data elements that must be changed/expanded to accomodate the change. However, nothing's impossible, as long as it fits in 32 megabits. |
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Moppy Red Goomba Since: 09-26-06 From: Rochester, NY Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6292 days |
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| Speaking of the music editor, I need to find a decent audio playback library for C#. Fmod EX just isn't cutting it, and I can't wait around for months for them to fix the one simple problem I sent them...
Anything that supports multiple channels, loading 16 bit samples from memory, sample loop points, and other module type stuff in general, will do. Any ideas? |
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Moppy Red Goomba Since: 09-26-06 From: Rochester, NY Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6292 days |
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| Ah ha! I fixed it by using the old FMOD. It's nice to hear things SOUND RIGHT AGAIN.
Here's a sample of it playing back a song: http://spongemop.dyndns.org/somedit_bosstheme.mp3 It still sounds a little skippy, and it's missing some effects like reverb, but at least the sample loops are correct again
Thanks for the compliments by the way, and yeah, it's at least uncommon to see music support in an editor, it was what got me working on a SOM editor to begin with, actually. Maybe I'll release some specs on it once I get it fully researched -- Some commands still come up as "Unknown" in my tracker. (edited by Moppy on 10-04-06 04:18 PM) |
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Moppy Red Goomba Since: 09-26-06 From: Rochester, NY Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6292 days |
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| It will be months before I'm even ready for testing, most likely. The version I have now views all of the stuff I posted but does not yet write them back to the rom. I want it to be complete-ish before I release it. =p | |||
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Moppy Red Goomba Since: 09-26-06 From: Rochester, NY Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6292 days |
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| A new weapon isn't unreasonable if you use the graphics you have, there are probably enough of them to make it look interesting. The overhead graphics in particular might look interesting used on the side view, assuming they're not a hassle to load/use in that mode.
You could always replace the 3 side-view "secondary" weapons.. most of the time I forgot those things were there anyhow. Also, if you can find it, fix the bug that makes overhead damage persist while you're paused. Half the bosses in the game die in seconds to this 
At any rate, this is definitely something I'd play. Loved this game as a kid. |
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Moppy Red Goomba Since: 09-26-06 From: Rochester, NY Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6292 days |
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| Zelda is far more "action/adventure" than SOM. There is a gray area inbetween the two genres where I would say SOM falls. If I had to choose a label, I'd call it an RPG; it's much closer to that end of the spectrum.
Oh, and about the event data: SOM's dialogue and events are combined. I have found them, but not all of the event commands have been decoded. Here's sort of a debug-ish view of the event that plays when you first take the sword: 
Keep in mind that's not the way it will look in the release, but it's more convenient for me that way until I decode all the event commands. (edited by Moppy on 10-06-06 12:25 PM) |
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Moppy Red Goomba Since: 09-26-06 From: Rochester, NY Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6292 days |
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Jesus. Thanks. That helps a lot.  |
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Moppy Red Goomba Since: 09-26-06 From: Rochester, NY Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6292 days |
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| It's not a bug, it's intentional. There is a spot near the Crocomire where jumping around in ball mode may make you miss the block that indicates that you can press up/down again, but going back through the tunnel will fix it.
It's meant to keep you from standing up in places that are designed for the ball. |
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Moppy Red Goomba Since: 09-26-06 From: Rochester, NY Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6292 days |
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| This makes Mop sad. | |||
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Moppy Red Goomba Since: 09-26-06 From: Rochester, NY Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6292 days |
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| The music was actually what got me interested in making a general editor, since it seemed like something no one had touched before. I recall sending Flobby some specs on the FF6 music format for his editor a long time ago and it was pretty similar (if not the same, I don't really recall) to the one used in SOM. Square may have just used the same music format in all of their games (Check the name of the music programmer I suppose), in which case I could pass specs to you and you could implement your own for CT.
However, my music research is not complete, as a few songs don't quite sound right yet--particularly the Dark Lich battle theme. It uses a lot of weird effects.
Since I'm particularly bored, here are a few problems I'm working out/issues the music player has at the moment: http://spongemop.dyndns.org/darklich_vibrato.mp3 Dark Lich sans vibrato http://spongemop.dyndns.org/flammie_looppoint.mp3 Flammie flight theme missing a loop point http://spongemop.dyndns.org/flammiesummon.mp3 Flammie summon effect, volume issues http://spongemop.dyndns.org/title_cymbal.mp3 Cymbal fade-in volume not working right http://spongemop.dyndns.org/credits_timing.mp3 The result of a song changing the song speed mid-play and Somedit getting confused. As for making you look like a chump, since I've used your Snes9X tool to research just about every piece of data my editor supports, I'd say that's probably not possible. :p On a side note, I've just completed (for the time being) the sample editor. My SPC700 sample recompression routine could use some tweaking though, if anyone is particularly experienced with this. The samples it writes sound.. acceptable, but not perfect. The four filter modes are what throws it off a bit. I also just found the pointers to the music data, which conveniently enough are stored as 24-bit rom addresses so I can easily move them to wherever I want and make the music expandable. I might have a release out by.. the new year? Hard to say. (edited by Moppy on 10-12-06 12:46 AM) |
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Moppy Red Goomba Since: 09-26-06 From: Rochester, NY Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6292 days |
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| It would be possible to seek out and modify certain files or sectors in a CD ISO of a known format. It depends on the game, I suppose; something with NTFS-accessible files like, say, Final Fantasy VII, would most likely be much easier than a game like Chrono Cross, whose file system is encrypted in such a way as to be unreadable without some serious modifications.
With an easier game like FF7, if you were capable of un-packing and re-packing an ISO file (I'm sure there are libraries out there), and knew the files on the disc you needed to change, it would be pretty simple. The resulting iso can be played using something like Daemon Tools, without wasting a CD. |
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Moppy Red Goomba Since: 09-26-06 From: Rochester, NY Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6292 days |
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Originally posted by Paradox There's an easy way to skip across the sand. Sometimes a tiny little problem requires a tiny little solution. |
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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - - Posts by Moppy |
