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Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - Femine's Corner - Sexual orientation. What a load of bull. | New poll | | |
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Skydude Armos Knight Since: 02-18-06 From: Stanford, CA Last post: 6705 days Last view: 6705 days |
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And the prize for worst post comprehension of the night goes to....ZIFF!
Originally posted by Plus Sign Abomination Right there, Ziff, right there. That's exactly what I'm talking about. You have nothing to substantiate it, because there's nothing there. If it were there, you're right, common sense would show it, it would reveal itself and not require "vibes" or people like you to "reveal" what's hidden in his meanings. EXACTLY what I was talking about. Right in the same post. Originally posted by Plus Sign Abomination You seem to miss my point. I'm not saying you're playing the victim. I'm saying you were accusing SS and I of being overly defensive, pretending to be victimized, called bigots and the like...and then what do you do but do just that, suggest VERY STRONGLY (as do others) that we are indeed bigots. Yeah, it's really paranoia for us to feel like people would say that... |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6432 days Last view: 6432 days |
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...you were the one that posted someone with unsubstantiated opinions to prove your own point and you're accusing me of hypocrisy? | |||
Skydude Armos Knight Since: 02-18-06 From: Stanford, CA Last post: 6705 days Last view: 6705 days |
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My point was that liberals like to play the "vibes" and "hidden meanings" game and accuse anyone who's moderate to conservative of being bigots because of these...which is exactly what you did, after suggesting that no one does that.
I would say my side has ALL the evidence needed to prove the point. |
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Kasumi-Astra Flurry Since: 11-18-05 From: Sheffield England Last post: 6432 days Last view: 6432 days |
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My point of keeping you guessing is that you simply don't know what my particular situation is without someone telling you, or talking to me directly. You have your labels for people yet you can't possibly label everything without finding out about it first.
So why do I object to being labeled as a boolean? Because you can't possibly sum me up before meeting me. You can't do that to anyone. Politics is the art of making decisions on other people's behalf. If you misrepresent people, you're making a political mistake. GLBT people insist on inclusion into society and law because they feel that it does not represent them, it's not all wishing for a rose-tinted world. Yet people continually accuse them of seeking more benefits than they're "allowed to have". It's the same problem here, and elsewhere on the internet. People are arguing about things that they have little understanding of, and wondering why so many people are arguing against their opinion. You're entitled to your opinion, but you must expect opposition if your opinion contradicts existing studies in gender and people's own feelings. Ziff's right. None of you correctly guessed my situation so it looks like you have to invent a three-state boolean, or add more information to your model. I have a feeling that you're going to need an awful lot more to correctly represent everyone, and don't complain when people fall outside your model. They don't do it on purpose just to spite you. |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6432 days Last view: 6432 days |
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Originally posted by Skydude But you've just regressed again in your argument, because the conservative side more often than not uses the exact same methodology in order to defend itself using hazy terms like "morality" and superstition. Edmund Burke must be rolling in his grave |
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Silvershield 580 Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6444 days Last view: 6432 days |
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Originally posted by Plus Sign AbominationAnd, like Dracoon, your "vibe" doesn't hold much water. Originally posted by Kasumi-AstraIt is not, and never was, about "guessing" what you are. I have neither need nor intention to go stand on a street corner and, as people walk by, point out "Oh, he's this" or "Hey, she is definitely that." Just because I can't "guess" what you are without having sufficient knowledge of your chracteristics doesn't mean that you can't be labeled at all; it just means that I can't read your mind. Kasumi, your desire to call yourself a female makes the job of classifying you much easier. You are bisexual. Period. I know you - or more likely, Ziff - will be terribly offended by that, even though there is no reason to be. |
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Skydude Armos Knight Since: 02-18-06 From: Stanford, CA Last post: 6705 days Last view: 6705 days |
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Originally posted by Plus Sign Abomination Seeing as I'm not conservative, nor do I use those supposedly "traditional" arguments, there's no reason for you to bring that up with me, and it's if anything merely more proof of your making unfair assumptions rather than using any evidence whatsoever. Which you need to do in order to advance a point, since you have no evidence. Edit to fix lack of / in quote end tag (edited by Skydude on 04-27-06 03:33 PM) |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6432 days Last view: 6432 days |
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I wasn't talking to you, though. So why do you make the response? | |||
Kasumi-Astra Flurry Since: 11-18-05 From: Sheffield England Last post: 6432 days Last view: 6432 days |
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Originally posted by Silvershield You're right, I am offended by people classifying me as what they see fit. Particularly if they disregard what I have to say about myself. I think you'll find that's common to everyone here. You're labeled as a homophobe in this thread. But you insist you're not, and put try to rationalise with people in this thread. Do you see? This is the position I am in. If someone makes an arguement about something about me that I feel is incorrect, I feel that they should not be able to say that if I have something to say about it. To disrupt your conclusion, I am not simply bisexual. I am attracted to women sexually and romantically. I am only attracted to men romantically (but only manifested as crushes so far). I am genetically male. I am also sexually male. However, I am female by gender and in common behaviour. I have breasts and wear women's clothing appropriate to my secondary sexual characteristics and gender. I am both neither, and both sexes. You can't possibly define me using two base-two variables, I am a living human being and I can think and speak for myself without the need for anyone else to explain what I am. |
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Silvershield 580 Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6444 days Last view: 6432 days |
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I was operating under the impression that you were sexually attracted to both sexes.
But, you've corrected me and said that you feel that way for females only. So, you're homosexual. You are female, and you are attracted to females. You are whatever sex your mind tells you that you are. It so happens that people are sometimes born with ambiguous physical characteristics, but they will invariably identify themselves more strongly as one sex than the other. Although in most cases it is reasonable to base a person's sex on his or her physical attributes, it is also reasonable for a person to contest that his or her mental state does not match the body he or she was born into. So, you were born into a body with which you do not identify and, even though you retain some of that body's sexual anatomy, you are no more a man than any "real" woman is. Anyway, I guess I better stop talking now and start hating you, because that's what homophobes do, and Ziff's vibes have proven that I am a homophobe. |
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Skreename Giant Red Paratroopa Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6438 days Last view: 6432 days |
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Waitwaitwait... When did such feelings about people suddenly become purely the domain of one political group? It IS possible for conservatives to get certain feelings off of people without being able to thoroughly explain them, too, you know.
And Vyper: Do you like the KKK? If not, you're a bigot too. |
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candrodor Red Goomba Since: 12-31-05 Last post: 6519 days Last view: 6519 days |
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Labels speed things up for people you don't know very well. Not many labels are detailed enough. "Sugar" on a jar. What sort of sugar? If you feel the sugar, taste the sugar (Find out about it, rather than guessing) then you find out what sort of sugar it is. So, the correct label for Kasumi, assuming you desperately want one, should be this whole paragraph, surely? And that's what she's said, isn't it? Straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak.
Originally posted by Kasumi-Astra In other news, this thread made me laugh. I'm sure it's a very serious debate for some of you as to who is more of a bigot, but it seems as though you're arguing rather than debating. (edited by candrodor on 04-27-06 06:56 PM) |
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Vyper Kodondo Raging Venom Since: 11-18-05 From: Final Fantasy Fire Last post: 6449 days Last view: 6449 days |
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Originally posted by SkreenameSo being against terrorists (which, in fact, they are) makes me a bigot? Then a bigot I will be! ! |
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Hawksun Red Koopa Since: 04-06-06 From: Canada Last post: 6653 days Last view: 6653 days |
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After checking the definition of what bigotry is, I can say we are all bigots in some way or another, so we all have something in common now!
My two cents on this whole topic: Labelling people is something I do in my life (never with bad intents) and will probably continue to do whatever the hell may happen. Are my labels accurate or complete at 100%? Probably not, but they work for me. So I believe, people can consider sexual attractions as boolean variables if they want to. |
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Jomb Deddorokku Since: 12-03-05 From: purgatory Last post: 6435 days Last view: 6434 days |
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Kasumi - Now that you've described your situation i would consider you to be the following:
bool SexIsOKwithFemales; bool SexIsOKwithMales; SexIsOKwithFemales = true; SexIsOKwithMales = false; I'm not saying that to attack you or anything of the sort, its just what the facts appear to be. Classifying is a human response to complex situations. It makes life much less confusing and easier to deal with. Being a male, the above classification of you makes my life a hell of a lot easier, because if i found myself sexually attracted to you, i would know not to get all worked up over you or waste my effort pursueing you because you are not interested in sex with men. This frees up my time to pursue people who i have a chance with. Nothing more, nothing less. Without such labels i could wastes lots of time and emotions chasing women who have no interest in men. I have better things to do. (edited by Jomb on 04-27-06 11:36 PM) |
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Sinfjotle Lordly? No, not quite. Since: 11-17-05 From: Kansas Last post: 6433 days Last view: 6432 days |
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Originally posted by Skydude Seeing as I'm not liberal, nor do I use those supposedly "traditional" arguments, there's no reason for you to bring that up with me, and it's if anything merely more proof of your making unfair assumptions rather than using any evidence whatsoever. Which you need to do in order to advance a point, since you have no evidence. Holy shit, look what one word does to a paragraph. Dude, you used an argument against us, tried to generalize it, and it failed. So you try and cover yourself when it is used on you by your opponet? This is called hypocrisy. You want to see my evidence, circumstantial or not, fine. First, I'm going to explain how both you and Silvershield come off as homophobes, I'm going to do it with context of multiple posts from Silvershield and whatever I can find for you. (You might not be so obvious by calling anything to deal with homosexuals immoral.) Originally posted by Skydude Originally posted by Skydude Originally posted by Skydude From the only topic dealing with gay people that I felt like digging out. According to you, homosexuality is a concept of morality, and as such, it can be deemed either right or wrong and can't be deemed automatically ok. This conveys to me that you believe that homosexuality should be contested and that you don't want to accept it for what it is. A bond between two people of the same gender. This implies it to me, this is how I got it from you. I didn't want to bring it up with you, because I have more respect for you than that, but you've been attacking me and Ziff because we're reading something differently than you. You think that vibes mean nothing and are codewords. I think morality means nothing and is a codeword to make people feel better about condemning things. I get the feeling from you, that if some guy hit on you because he thought you were gay, you would get pissed instead of just shrug it off laughing like a sane person would do. Sorry if you weren't getting at that, but to me, it sure as hell does sound like it. Originally posted by Silvershield Originally posted by Silvershield Yeah, these two posts really give me the same over all feeling that you have something against gays and can't accept that it isn't their fault or something. Sure, you might not have meant it, but when it comes to the internet, you can't correct yourself because someone gives you a strange look. Hell, it's fully possible that I don't think you're a homophobe, but you sure as hell do seem like it in my mind after these two posts. Originally posted by Silvershield This post ticks me off. I mean seriously, wtf. What is up with you and lables and not being able to accept the person's opinion who is there? Kasumi, from my knowledge, is unable to have children. (Unless science has made great advances without my knowledge.) I don't know what I'd really consider Kasumi actually, and I don't think there is a lable you could use. People are to complex to really lable that easily, which I think Kasumi was trying to get at, and you ignored so easily. And niether me or Ziff have tried to PROVE you were a homophobe, you just seem like a homophobe TO us. We get that impression from you. Jesus. Learn2comprehend. You're going to try to argue this, I know it. You're going to say you don't come off as a homophobe at all, because it's right there, and it isn't hard to get the impression that you're a homophobe. You can say you didn't want to come off as a homophobe, but really, anything else you say, just means you're trying to defend not against me, or Ziff, but from a translation of what YOU typed.... jackasses. However, you're both pretty awesome guys anyways. |
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Sin Dogan 860 Uoodo Original Blend Armored Trooper Votoms Canned Coffee! Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6436 days Last view: 6435 days |
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Dracoon you fail. You have completely misinterpreted everything under the sun.
Most of you seem to be bigots against conservatives. Namely Dracoon, Ziff, and Kasumi. You WANT to make Silvershield out to be a homophobe because it makes things easier. It makes classifying him as a conservative easier by associating traits you believe to be common amongst them. (edited by Captain Subtext on 04-28-06 01:54 AM) |
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Tarale 2710 Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!! Persona non grata Since: 11-17-05 From: Adelaide, Australia Last post: 6432 days Last view: 6432 days |
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Originally posted by Captain Subtext Kasumi did not label Silvershield a homophobe -- she made a statement that others have labelled him and made a frustrated comparison about it. You're labeled as a homophobe in this thread. But you insist you're not, and put try to rationalise with people in this thread. Do you see? This is the position I am in. If someone makes an arguement about something about me that I feel is incorrect, I feel that they should not be able to say that if I have something to say about it.. And personally, I think Kasumi has every right be frustrated about this thread, when it seems that nobody is either willing or able to think "outside of the box" and outside of boolean characteristics in regards to her. I wonder if anybody will work out the "riddle"... |
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Vyper Kodondo Raging Venom Since: 11-18-05 From: Final Fantasy Fire Last post: 6449 days Last view: 6449 days |
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Originally posted by TaraleThis is where I need to step in. Why do we have to make the world special so that it fits the needs of one (or a select few) person(s)? Because she's a "whatever-she-called-it" (no, I'm not hating, I'm just confused on the subject), which from what I've read is pretty unique, she gets special attention? That's BS. Kind of like saying I should have everyone cater to my needs because I have Tourette's Syndrome. This is why political corectness and/or flaming liberals suck ass (no, conservatives arn't any better, but liberals are the issue here). Quit being a crybaby. People get generalized all the time. Get over it. (Yeah, I'm being really defensive, but I don't care. Bash me all you want for it...) |
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Tarale 2710 Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!! Persona non grata Since: 11-17-05 From: Adelaide, Australia Last post: 6432 days Last view: 6432 days |
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I don't think she's asking for special attention, Vyper. Nor do I think that she's asking for anybody to cater to anything in particular. I think you misunderstand.
This thread is about sexual orientation, and Kasumi is attempting to provide another point of view in regards to this. Yes people are generalised all the time, and that's not always a bad thing. In fact, it's probably helpful for people to be able to generalise to some extent. But the generalisations that have been made thus far with regards to Kasumi are wildly inaccurate.... and while generalisations might be useful some of the time, they are certainly not useful ALL of the time! There is no need to pigeonhole everybody into little packages. (edited by Tarale on 04-28-06 03:05 AM) |
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