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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Bashing the French |
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Jomb Deddorokku                   Since: 12-03-05 From: purgatory Last post: 6471 days Last view: 6471 days |
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| I was flipping channels recently and someone on Fox News was trashing the French, apparently because they surrendered to Nazis over 50 years ago. It got me thinking though, being French is an ethnicity, so the whole thing is actually kinda racist. But it goes on all the time and no one seems to care. Now if we took a different ethnic group, like say African Americans, and said equally racist things about them on national television there would be a serious uproar and people would'nt stand for it, there may even be violence. Why do people of French ethnicity have to put up with this racism while no one else does? Should'nt we be against racism in any form? | |||
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Deleted User Banned      Since: 05-08-06 Last post: None Last view: 6469 days |
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| I'd say it would be because african-americans have had an ugly past with southern America; a century and a half ago they were slaves; so ever since they've become equal; they seem to always bring up the past if one little thing goes up against them, it's automatically "racism". French people haven't had a past like this; therefore there is no outrage. Are some of the French hating this? Of course they are! But it's not to the point where they're on strike with sign's stating racism is against them, you know? I'm very diverse, I'm not a racist; I hate everyone equal, lol that's a typical joke, but I'm halfway serious. I can't stand blacks, whites(I am a white), asians, mexicans, arabics, and the list goes on; they all have their faults. The French have not had this problem in the past so much, and that's why i think no one cares as much; do think that make sense?
Watch the FX series "Black White" tonight speaking of... (edited by Skyon on 03-22-06 07:32 PM) (edited by Skyon on 03-22-06 07:33 PM) |
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drjayphd Torosu OW! BURNY!  Since: 11-18-05 From: CT Last post: 6472 days Last view: 6469 days |
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| I wasn't aware anyone seriously bashed France, besides Bill O'Reilly. Was it him, by any chance? I mean, the whole France-bashing thing was stale about two years ago, if not longer.
Skyon: I saw an article about it and it does sound really intriguing, but I'll pass. Not something I'd go out of my way to watch. |
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Jomb Deddorokku Since: 12-03-05 From: purgatory Last post: 6471 days Last view: 6471 days |
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| Actually it was some business news thing, it was'nt O'Reilly this time. There were 4 people talking, and one said some racist stuff about the French then the other 3 all agreed. | |||
Wurl Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6510 days Last view: 6510 days |
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Originally posted by drjayphd + Fox News hates non-America in general. |
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Skydude Armos Knight  Since: 02-18-06 From: Stanford, CA Last post: 6742 days Last view: 6742 days |
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| Oh come on, Wurl, just pay attention for a second and you'll see it's not just Fox News, it's not just conservatives. Quite a few Americans of all stripes dislike the French, and it's pretty easy to see why. They're self-righteous bastards at least as badly as the worst of the Americans, and their history confirms that. Add to that their constant criticism of the US despite the help America has rendered on their behalf, and the fact that they themselves are racist (the administration is extremely antisemitic, and they've had huge problems with the Muslim population in the country), and you see a country that it's easy to hate and difficult to like. | |||
Snow Tomato Snap Dragon  Since: 12-31-05 From: NYC Last post: 6489 days Last view: 6475 days |
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| Fox News hates everyone who isn't president bush in general.
And I'd have to say that I haven't seen too many anti-French sentiments that have actually been serious. And I'm sure it'd be equal to the amount of anti-American sentiments that the French have against us. We're allowed to be biased, people are allowed to have opinions. If you're biased you're automatically racist. But if I like peanut butter more than I like jelly.... no one's going to cause an outrage over that. I do believe that everyone should be treated fairly and equally, of course.... but some people are going to be racist You can be biased though... without discriminating. Even if you don't understand me... I understand me. So, everything's going to be okay. |
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Jomb Deddorokku Since: 12-03-05 From: purgatory Last post: 6471 days Last view: 6471 days |
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| Its kinda unfair to generalize an entire ethnicity based on a government. I say if there were some talking heads on Fox News saying that Blacks are all headed for prison anyway and are a burden on society because they have the highest unemployment rate, that just would'nt fly, even if statistically blacks are more likely to go to prison. And it should'nt fly because its unfair to generalize an entire ethnicity based on one faction of it. But if they go on saying the French are all lazy bastards and deserve the riots they had, then go on to joke about surrendering to Nazi's, as if the average French citizen of today had anything to do with that, it strikes me as racist. And i find it highly curious that this sort of racism is tolerated and even glorified, while most other kinds would be political suicide. Last time i checked the French were our allies, and historically have halped us to gain our independance, even gave us a nice statue. Why hate them now? | |||
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Skydude Armos Knight Since: 02-18-06 From: Stanford, CA Last post: 6742 days Last view: 6742 days |
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| Because most of the average citizens there are extremely anti-American as well, maybe. And they have a representative government. If the French people hated the racist sentiments of the government, they could vote to change it. | |||
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Jomb Deddorokku Since: 12-03-05 From: purgatory Last post: 6471 days Last view: 6471 days |
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| Skydude - Have you ever visited France? | |||
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Skydude Armos Knight Since: 02-18-06 From: Stanford, CA Last post: 6742 days Last view: 6742 days |
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| I have not. My parents have. Many of my friends, of many different political orientations, by the way, have. They are whence I form the base for these sentiments. | |||
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Jomb Deddorokku Since: 12-03-05 From: purgatory Last post: 6471 days Last view: 6471 days |
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| Many years ago i visited France and was treated nicely. But regardless, generalizing an entire people is just wrong, how would you like it if some foreigners hated you, Skydude, because they lumped you in with the left-wing liberals.
On second thought, maybe that's a bad example, because American is not an ethnicity, it is a nation, while French is also an ethnicity. Many people in America have French ancestry though. |
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Skydude Armos Knight Since: 02-18-06 From: Stanford, CA Last post: 6742 days Last view: 6742 days |
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| Well, I should make it clear that my problem is not with people of French ethnicity, and that goes for most French-bashers. It's more France as a nation.
And one of the reasons that many Americans hate the French is BECAUSE many of them hate Americans  |
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Arwon Bazu Since: 11-18-05 From: Randwick, Sydney, NSW, Australia Last post: 6470 days Last view: 6470 days |
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| America-France rivalry has a long history.
I think the Economist nailed it (France quarrels with America not because the pair are so different but because they are so alike) in its dissection of the nature of French political and popular anti-Americanism. Both are nations borne out of enlightenment-era revolutions, both view their particular national values (whatever they may be) as universal values that should be spread and are something all nations should strive for: The modern French and American polities may have evolved quite differently, notably where the role of the state is concerned, but both emerged as highly codified, anti-clerical, secular republics. Both--unlike the dissembling English--can articulate unapologetically what their country stands for. Born of revolutions, America and France each established republics inspired by Enlightenment thinking, and based on freedom and individual rights. Within the same year, 1789, both the French Declaration of the Rights of Man and the American Bill of Rights were drafted. Above all, each nation believed in the universalism of its model—the Americans stressing liberty, the French civilisation—and shared an ambition to spread it abroad. Essentially both countries think everyone should be like them, they have different visions of what this should entail, and this leads to a great deal of antagonism and competitiveness. In response to Skydude's claim that "They started it!" I'd also point out that this oft-bemoaned "Anti-Americanism" is actually less prevalent in France than is often thought. Indeed I think you'd find the average person on the street here is more anti-American than the average Frenchman: "Of course, a taste for American brands or popular culture does not necessarily mean a taste for America, its citizens or leaders. [...] Yet even the evidence for popular anti-Americanism is ambivalent. For sure, 85% of the French disapprove of George Bush's international policies, according to the latest German Marshall Fund transatlantic survey, compared with 72% of all Europeans and 62% of the British. [...] And today's America—God-fearing, fixated by terrorism, militaristic—is not the Europhile America of old that a nostalgic France often yearns for. Yet the French do not seem to generalise this dislike. In one 2004 poll, 72% of the French had a favourable view of Americans, more even than in Britain (62%) or Spain (47%). Some 68% of those questioned in another poll the same year said that what unites France and America was more important than what separates them." So, Sky, it might be more correct for you to say "one of the reasons that many Americans hate the French is because THEY THINK many of them hate Americans because that's the stereotype of the French". (edited by Arwon on 03-22-06 10:17 PM) |
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Supersuit Goomba Since: 01-17-06 From: crap-for-weather Michigan Last post: 6793 days Last view: 6793 days |
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| I guess right now they seem like a great candidate for a scapegoat. They have what America wants more of (I.E. skinny people, art, grace, nudity, love, (techno?)) and their main political view go against ours much of the time. They're also easy to make fun of because of their military past, and are cooperatively disliked by the British, our great ally. I hate it when people on tv who have the talent of knowing what they're talking about suddenly pull something like bashing the French. I thought this fad was getting old by the way, it's making nobody smarter and I sure hope it goes for good. |
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