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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - General Chat - True Color. |
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Kutske                   Since: 11-19-05 Last post: 6812 days Last view: 6812 days |
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| So I've been reading up on the whole concept of "color" and how creatures percieve it on Wikipedia, and as I was reading up on monochromacy, dichromacy up through pentachromacy, I wondered, what would it be like if we could see color as it truly occurs? Most humans are trichromats -- we sense all colors as various mixtures of red, green and blue, basically -- and that bothers me, because some creatures see in mixtures of four colors, which seems more "real" to me. So I've been wondering, and maybe some smart-type person can answer this for me -- would it be possible to have a different receptor for every distinct "type" of color (rather than just mixing from a small pallette) and thus see color as it truly occurs, unskewed by limited vision? And I mean theoretically as in could some creature see in such a way -- obviously humans could never attain such vision.
Furthermore, I wonder what the world would look like if we could see beyond the visible spectrum -- if we could see more or perhaps all forms of light. Do colors exist that we can't possibly imagine? Would seeing outside the visible spectrum affect the way we view colors within that spectrum? If we could see x-ray and ultraviolet light, would we see right through most objects and thus be unable to function normally in life? Then is our limited capacity for viewing lightwaves beneficiary, and not detrimental? I wonder... |
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Tommathy  Since: 11-17-05 From: Cloud Nine, Turn Left and I'm There~ Last post: 6465 days Last view: 6465 days |
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| Your receptors are merely coarse range detectors, they detect one spectrum of wavelengths and register that as one color.
Considering that the wave nature of light is, insofar as we understand it, not quantized, you'd need an infinite number of receptors to see the infinite possibilities of light. If we could see X-ray light we probably wouldn't be seeing very *much* of it, considering its high energy nature lends itself to causing cellular damage. |
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Ailure Mr. Shine I just want peace...  Since: 11-17-05 From: Sweden Last post: 6465 days Last view: 6465 days |
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| If you could enjoy the full spectrum... well then enjoy the rain everywhere. Becuse that's how I think the world looks like if you could see raditation going around. xD
(Raditation is everywhere, and most of it comes from the ground. Natural too.) |
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Skydude Armos Knight  Since: 02-18-06 From: Stanford, CA Last post: 6738 days Last view: 6738 days |
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| But then you get into the question of "What is color" anyway, other than the categorization of wavelengths that our brain makes. There are actually a number of color theories, not just the trichromat one, which evidence supports as correct to some extent. Most of the ones you'll get in a textbook are rather simplified forms of how the perception actually works; visual perception is perhaps the most complex part of the human anatomy, though we rather take it for granted.
What I've always wondered, however, is if the colors I'm seeing are the same as the ones you're seeing. If we see a yellow ball, we will both call it "yellow"...but perhaps the signals my brain gets perceive it as what you would class as another color, but that particular color we both have been taught it "yellow"...which could actually be some explanation not really for colorblindness, but "colorweakness" in which distinctions between colors are perceivable, but it's hard to identify what is what in some cases. |
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Trapster King Dedede Since: 11-19-05 From: Sweden Last post: 6573 days Last view: 6465 days |
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| Ookay, from what I know, different colors depends on how the light is bent. If it wasn´t bent, you´d only see it like....well, can someone fill me in here?
I think it´s an interesting discussion but I´m not a professor or anything. "Considering that the wave nature of light is, insofar as we understand it, not quantized, you'd need an infinite number of receptors to see the infinite possibilities of light." And that´s not possible. |
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Tatrion <_<; Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6466 days Last view: 6465 days |
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Originally posted by Ran-chan + Actually, interpretation of colors comes from what materials absorb what wavelengths of light, and which they reflect. The mixture of the color wavelengths that reflect allow you to interpret color. In fact, we could compare this to standard color mixing in hex numbers - as you know, 000000 comes out to be black, because it mimics the color as it would if it reflected 0 of the light rays and absorbed them all.
FFFFFF, the maximum reflection of all light, produces white.
Obviously, it's not distilled to increments of 256 in real life, but that's the basic idea. |
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Snow Tomato Snap Dragon  Since: 12-31-05 From: NYC Last post: 6486 days Last view: 6471 days |
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| There is no "true color"... just different interpretations of it. Like, the way your eyes receive it. It'd be like trying to say which is the right religion. Like.. it's the way your eyes perceive it. Like snakes have heat vision... they obviously see colors very very differently than us. But like... it's not the color... it's how our eyes pick up on it. | |||
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6465 days Last view: 6465 days |
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| You can't comprehend it right now, you won't ever be able to comprehend it. You'll only ever be able to interpret things in the RGB format. Trying to imagine what it looks like (to a human) may be near impossible because it would've been a major evolutionary change. | |||
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Snow Tomato Snap Dragon Since: 12-31-05 From: NYC Last post: 6486 days Last view: 6471 days |
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| I was thinking about this just before. What is the frame rate that our eyes perceive in real life? Like move your hands in front of your eyes.... what's the frame rate per second that our brains can process?
I have no idea. But it's cool to think about. Another thing my friend told me. It's definatly like proven wrong... but it's weird to think about. Say the way I saw red, was the way you see blue. Like, everyones colors were different colors. Everything would look normal and natural to that person. Like a purple sky. And there'd be no way to tell with words... because the color that is truely blue.. would be called purple by that person. Like, what if everyone saw different colors. There are supposedly people who can see more than the visible spectrum. People who see aura's. It's just the ring of heat that surrounds our body's, but it has spiritual connotations. |
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Danielle     6730 Administratorrrr HELLO THERE   Since: 11-17-05 From: California Rate me ^_^ Last post: 6466 days Last view: 6465 days |
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Originally posted by Snow Tomato I used to ask questions like that when I was a kid. Dead serious questions to my kindergarten/elementary school teachers. Then I was given scientific answers, and I've never asked such questions again. Sort of killed my imaginitive side. The sky is blue because it is the reflection of the ocean in the atmosphere. |
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Alastor Fearless Moderator Hero  Since: 11-17-05 From: An apartment by DigiPen, Redmond, Washington Last post: 6465 days Last view: 6465 days |
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Originally posted by Danielle... 
Who told you THAT? |
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Snow Tomato Snap Dragon Since: 12-31-05 From: NYC Last post: 6486 days Last view: 6471 days |
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That's not what I was talking about though  ..
I was talking about what if someone's blue... was another persons purple. But they'd call it blue... because they've seen it that way their whole life. Think about it. It's very confusing to explain via the internet. I can explain it IRL alot better. [Edit]okay.. time to make it easier. OMG THIS IS BLUE!!... but someone saw that blue as this: They call this color blue. [hint:it's a different color].... but they identify it as BLUE. Cause they've been taught that it's called blue. But their blue is really purple, another color. Think along the lines of subjective reality. Or even to some extent... color blindness. (how someone confuses red and green... so they call green red... and red green). [[edit]] NVM, Danielle gets it  (edited by Snow Tomato on 02-19-06 06:21 PM) (edited by Snow Tomato on 02-19-06 06:22 PM) |
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Danielle 6730 Administratorrrr HELLO THERE Since: 11-17-05 From: California Rate me ^_^ Last post: 6466 days Last view: 6465 days |
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Originally posted by Alastor the StylishOriginally posted by Danielle... My science teacher in elementary school, and my science teacher now. 
Snow Tomato: Oh I get it. Like, you see grass as blue, but since you can't exp Yeah, I get it. And that's pretty interesting. (edited by Danielle on 02-19-06 06:22 PM) |
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Tarale 2710 Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!! Persona non grata Since: 11-17-05 From: Adelaide, Australia Last post: 6465 days Last view: 6465 days |
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| See, I was told the sky is blue for a different reason.
You ever played with a prism and seen how it splits white light up into the colors of the spectrum? The atmosphere acts a little like a prism. Different things in the atmosphere cause the light to fall in the blue part of the spectrum. Now, I was told the OCEAN is blue because it's reflecting the sky |
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Danielle 6730 Administratorrrr HELLO THERE Since: 11-17-05 From: California Rate me ^_^ Last post: 6466 days Last view: 6465 days |
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| And they wonder why kids are doing worse in science now than ever before. There's more than one answer for why the sky is blue. >8( | |||
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Tarale 2710 Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!! Persona non grata Since: 11-17-05 From: Adelaide, Australia Last post: 6465 days Last view: 6465 days |
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Originally posted by Danielle Well, I was always told the prism-ish explanation. I think a more technical term is "Rayleigh scattering" |
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Danielle 6730 Administratorrrr HELLO THERE Since: 11-17-05 From: California Rate me ^_^ Last post: 6466 days Last view: 6465 days |
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| And I've always been told that it's the reflection of the ocean off of the molecules in the atmosphere.
I'm going to look it up. This is driving me crazy.
Edit: Yeah, Tarale is right. AUS: 1, USA: 0 (edited by Danielle on 02-19-06 06:53 PM) |
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Tarale 2710 Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!! Persona non grata Since: 11-17-05 From: Adelaide, Australia Last post: 6465 days Last view: 6465 days |
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Originally posted by Danielle Of course I'm right! I'm awesome  (Despite my horrifically bad explanation of it all, but meh)
As for why we view color this way, well.... there's probably a reason why we see things in the RGB range and not any other way. This is probably the way that is the most useful to us as a species. *shrugs* |
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Sin Dogan 860  Uoodo Original Blend Armored Trooper Votoms Canned Coffee! Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6469 days Last view: 6468 days |
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| Let's not forget the sun's role in our perception of color. I think that in different solar systems, the spectrums are different and have colors we cannot understand or something. | |||
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Kutske Since: 11-19-05 Last post: 6812 days Last view: 6812 days |
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Tommathy: Considering that the wave nature of light is, insofar as we understand it, not quantized, you'd need an infinite number of receptors to see the infinite possibilities of light. Well, two possibilities come to mind when you say that. First, that each variant of hue (even if there's billions) has it's own cone, but not variants of intensity, which is what would make it infinite. Or secondarily, if an entirely new type of visual organ were discovered that didn't need to use rods and cones to interpret the visual spectrum. I'm more inclined to think of the latter as the more possible possibility, but I'm no expert. Skydude: What I've always wondered, however, is if the colors I'm seeing are the same as the ones you're seeing. If we see a yellow ball, we will both call it "yellow"...but perhaps the signals my brain gets perceive it as what you would class as another color, but that particular color we both have been taught it "yellow"...which could actually be some explanation not really for colorblindness, but "colorweakness" in which distinctions between colors are perceivable, but it's hard to identify what is what in some cases. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorblindness#Misconceptions_and_compensations That was always what I figured, but no. Tatrion: Actually, interpretation of colors comes from what materials absorb what wavelengths of light, and which they reflect. Which has always fascinated me because that means that grass isn't really green and blood isn't really red; these things merely reflect light in such a way that we percieve them as green or red or what have you. That's also why we can't see in the dark, because light isn't being reflected by anything. Snow Tomato: I was thinking about this just before. What is the frame rate that our eyes perceive in real life? I've thought about this before, too. While discussing the possibility of total optical camoflauge, I wondered, "What is the frame rate our eyes record information at? If we could find out, perhaps we could find a way to make an object go out of synch with that rate, making it unable to be percieved visually." But that's another topic. Danielle: The sky is blue because it is the reflection of the ocean in the atmosphere. Heh heh heh, that's what I was told as a kid, too, but it's absolutely false. It's more like, blue is the shortest and therefore most easily percieved wavelength, or something, so that's what our brain registers when it sees a daytime sky filled with lightwaves. I'm sure it also has to do with what elements make up our atmosphere, and how they affect lightwaves. Tarale: Now, I was told the OCEAN is blue because it's reflecting the sky Yeah, that's it; water is mostly clear (aside from particulate matter clouding it), huge bodies of water just look blue because they're reflecting the sky. Jin Dogan: Let's not forget the sun's role in our perception of color. I think that in different solar systems, the spectrums are different and have colors we cannot understand or something. Nah. As far as the visible spectrum goes, there is a finite amount of percievable colors, the sun has nothing to do with it. The sky would appear differently colored on different planets, though, because of different gasses in the air. Venus' sky is supposedly chartreuse, Mars' is a pinkish orange. Here's another interesting fact; most of the languages in the world don't have words to distinguish between the colors blue and green -- they have one word that means both, and the actual color implied is usually understood through context. If clarification is needed, you could say "grue like water" or "grue like leaves." Also, think about the words we use for color in English... Maroon, Red, Pink Dark Blue, Blue, Light Blue Dark Green, Green, Light Green Dark Yellow, Yellow, Light Yellow Brown, Orange, Light Orange ...why is it that we recognize certain shades of certain colors as being totally different colors, but for others, they're merely different shades? In Itallian, there is blu and azzuro, which we just call blue and light blue. They see the two colors, however, as being as different from one another as our pink and red, or brown and orange. I think human language is the first major barrier that needs to be overcome if we are ever to accurately understand just what exactly color is. |
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