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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - General Gaming - Zelda II |
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To be or not to be?| Suck |
6.7%, 2 votes | Not Suck |
70.0%, 21 votes | meh |
23.3%, 7 votes | Multi-voting is disabled. 30 users have voted.
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Moppy Red Goomba                    Since: 09-26-06 From: Rochester, NY Last post: 6484 days Last view: 6468 days |
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Originally posted by Adamant Every Zelda game admittedly follows this dungeon linearity model, as it's usually the only main source of linearity and progression. What I was trying to get at, however, is that Zelda 2's overuse of this little theme brings about too much linearity and over-limits the player a bit. Level analysis: You needed the candle from 1 to escape the little northern area where you start and get to level 2. You needed the glove from 2 to get through level 3 (as I recall..). The raft from 3 got you to the second continent where 4, 5, and 6 were. The boots from 4 were the only way to get in 5. And the whistle thing from 5 served only one real purpose, which was to get you into level 6. You've pretty much covered Zelda 1, which I still feel had a pretty decent level of freedom with respect to level order. With the exception of 7, you could at least get into and poke around every level, even if you couldn't finish it yet. That's something that can't really be said for Zelda 2; I think the only level you could possibly sneak into early is 3, and you still couldn't do much in it. Zelda 1's entire world is open to you when you start, whereas Zelda 2's is unlocked as you complete levels and find items. And yes, there is another digdogger that you have to kill, but I believe it's in level 7 anyway. |
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Thexare Metal battleaxe Off to better places   Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6465 days Last view: 6465 days |
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| Zelda 2, the little I've played (I suck too much, haven't passed level 2 yet), is a good game. It could use a bit of improvement (I'm not fond of the limited lives thing, for one thing), but it's still enjoyable enough.
From here, I stray a bit off topic, so stop reading if you don't care about my ramblings. Originally posted by Racer Xeo They're pretty similar to Link's Awakening, with a few additions/changes. Not bad, though. Moppy: What about LttP? Can't get into 2 without the Pegasus Boots from 1, can't get into 3 without the Power Glove from 2, can't get into Dark World 2 without the hammer from DW1, IIRC... from there I think there's a bit more choice, but I can't recall since it's been a long time. Ocarina of Time only has two (Shadow/Spirit Temple) that you can switch around. Link's Awakening only has 7 and 8 that can be switched, the Oracle games have a specific order (IIRC), and so do Windwaker and Majora's Mask. You want non-linearity, you're in the wrong series. |
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Xkeeper Took the board down in a blaze of glory, only to reveal how truly moronical ||bass is. Since: 11-17-05 From: Henderson, Nevada Last post: 6465 days Last view: 6465 days |
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I have it on the cart (well, NES Series, anyway) and after playing it for a while I just couldn't get into it anymore. The total lack of any sort of "extra life" mechanism (other than a levelup with full levels, which doesn't even come into play until very late in the game), the mechanics of Game Over*, and the fact the few extra lives that do exist can only be picked up once really ruins it, since I'm not that good of a gamer (suprise). But then, I also find stupid things like the low Life that almost always ran out too quickly moronic... 
Hearing about how difficult some of the later ones are isn't helping either, since I really dislike backtracking past a certain point (traveling a full overworld like Z2's without warps and only 3 lives is not fun, nor will it ever be)... I play games for fun, not to sit there and redo a super-tedious part over and over, especially for the lackluster ending sequence that was Z2's. Bleh. It's even worse when you consider that Z1 at least had a warping mechanism, so once you found a dungeon you could warp back to it (after Lv5, but you could jump in there and grab the recorder a little early if you tried, I know I did)... Z2's lack of a warp feature just leads to a lot of unnessacary backtracking, especially when you end up dying of something stupid. Regarding the bottomless pit debate, I like it that way, because it at least allows for some error -- I'm sure you would've loved it if falling into a pit killed you, especially considering that there are some really devious traps in Ages/Seasons or even Link's Awakening... 
And now for the generic one, my list of favorites: Link's Awakening (suprise) > Seasons > LttP > Ages > Minish Cap (and) Zelda 1 > Zelda 2. Ocarina of Time would probably rank uner LttP, but I've never played it. I've only seen Melvin beat it, but even then he had a lot of trouble with some stupid things... *Stolen from Kid Radd |
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drjayphd Torosu OW! BURNY!  Since: 11-18-05 From: CT Last post: 6468 days Last view: 6465 days |
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Originally posted by Kasdarack Yeah, the planted fights in the lava section are ridiculous. Especially the last jump, over the extra-wide pit (so you can make the leap to toasted sandwiches)... until I finally got the timing right, that was firmly in "mother... SHITTER!" territory. Anyway, I quite like Zelda II: Link Harder, but I can't really say much negatively about the series. Besides, I play with savestates now and know the Ancient Family Secret to killing Ironknuckles with the greatest of ease: Spoiler:
A quick hop 'n stab. If you time it right, you'll hit them just above the shield and they're totally helpless. At least until the final dungeon, but at that point, you're just HAULING ASS to the bottom. Oh, and the penultimate boss is ricockulous. No excuse for you to be fully leveled-up, full life, full magic, and if he hits you five times (especially when he's bleeding those fireballs all over the fuckin' place) you're D-U-N DONE. |
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Yoronosuku Toss Tortoise Since: 11-17-05 From: Massachusetts is my new home.. Last post: 6465 days Last view: 6465 days |
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Curiously enough, the only memory I have of this game is that I apparently played through/beat it while tipsy (there's a long story behind that we won't get in to  )
I can't say I hated the game, though it was pretty different, and I'll give it that. I had to go with meh. |
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drjayphd Torosu OW! BURNY! Since: 11-18-05 From: CT Last post: 6468 days Last view: 6465 days |
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Originally posted by Yoronosuku ...good Lord, how much did you end up drinking? Start-to-finish? That's an all-nighter for me... |
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Yoronosuku Toss Tortoise Since: 11-17-05 From: Massachusetts is my new home.. Last post: 6465 days Last view: 6465 days |
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| Basically, my mom fixed my eggnog one christmas because she thought it would be a "cute experience". Japanese alcohol...if you don't know, is really strong. I don't know how bad I was (or if I was even really that bad), all I remember is waking up to the game being beaten, having no recolection of it what so ever. Could have been all night for me, I really couldn't tell you ._. | |||
Adamant Buzz Blob Staff Wii have Wii  Since: 11-17-05 From: Norway Last post: 6465 days Last view: 6465 days |
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Originally posted by MoppyOriginally posted by Adamant Yeah? Zelda 3: Need to beat 1 to gt boots to get book to get into 2. Need glove from 2 to get to 3. Need pendants from1, 2 and 3 to get sword to get to 4. Need to beat 4 to reach 5, and need pearl from 3 to get anywhere in the vicinity of 5. Need hammer from 5 to reach 6. Need hookshot from 6 to reach 7 and 8. Need glove from 8 to reach 9 and 10. Need staves from 7 and 10 for some required puzzles somewhere (and staff from 10 to get anywhere in 11. Need crystals from 5-11 to reach 12. Apart from 9, which can be completed at any time after reaching it, and 7, which I can't remember when must be done (it must be done before 11, at least). And then came Zelda 4, which had a whole slew of events only taking place after the death of a certain boss, required to reach the next dungeon (or just piss you off, like the ghost). These stuck ever since (yeah, there was a single one in Zelda 3. 4 made them a lot more common. |
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Thexare Metal battleaxe Off to better places Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6465 days Last view: 6465 days |
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Originally posted by Xkeeper there are four extra lives hidden in the game, or so I read, but they don't respawn, they're one-shot deals. =/ Adamant: I covered most of LttP. |
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Adamant Buzz Blob Staff Wii have Wii Since: 11-17-05 From: Norway Last post: 6465 days Last view: 6465 days |
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Originally posted by Thexare For some reason, I managed to stop reading the thread and start writing my reply right after reading his post. Odd. But okay, here's Zelda 4: Need feather and event from 1 to reach 2, need bracelet and event from 2 to reach 3, need boots (I think) and event from 3 to reach 4, need flippers from 4 to reach 5, need hookshot from 5 to reach 6 (might be possible with some fancy jumping), need bracelet and/or event from 6 to reach 7, need shield from 7 to reach 8, need instruments from 1-8 to reach 9. Real sense of freedom, right. And since everyone does it, here's my list: LttP > OoT > MM > LoZ > OoA > AoL > LA > FS+ > WW > OoS > WoG > FoE Not played Twilight Princess, Minish Cap, Zelda's Adventure, Four Swords or the Zelda G&W. While I'm not completely sure if you need the Hover Boots to reach Spirit Temple or not, I know for sure you need the Mirror hield to reach Turtle Rock in LA. There's this flame-spitting eye inside a cave you cannot pass without it. (edited by Adamant on 11-21-06 05:54 PM) |
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Moppy Red Goomba Since: 09-26-06 From: Rochester, NY Last post: 6484 days Last view: 6468 days |
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| Zelda 3 had at least a couple you could skip. The Light World was entirely linear, and you needed the hammer from Dark World 1 to basically get out to the rest of the Dark World. After that...
2. The hookshot, I don't THINK you absolutely need until you have to get in level 6. Correct me if I'm wrong =p 3. Fire Rod serves no real purpose except to let you finish level 3, and light some torches in level 7 (Possibly others, it's been a long time). 4. I think you need the Titan's Mitt to make any progress in any level after 4. 5. The blue mail, of course, isn't necessary. 6. The cane basically just lets you get in & explore level 7. After you get the hammer, I believe you can get into 2, 3, and 4 if you really want to, and once you have the Titan's Mitt & Hookshot, you can access 5 and 6. Linear enough to keep you in place, but non-linear enough that you can have some fun and explore. Zeldas 1 and 3 share this nice balance; Zelda 2 does not. As for Link's Awakening, it's been far too long since I've played it. =p |
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MathOnNapkins  1100  In SPC700 HELL Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6465 days Last view: 6465 days |
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Originally posted by Moppy Ok. You can dash against the blocks in the beginning of Misery Mire and after you bounced off hold the other direction and you will still make the gap. No hookshot required. I think the only time after that it is absolutely required is Ganon's tower right after you beat the Moldorm for the second time. |
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Shadic The Adventure of Link Perfect Member Since: 11-18-05 From: Olympia, Washington Last post: 6472 days Last view: 6468 days |
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| My layout and avatar pretty much describe my feelings pretty well. Zelda II fucking ROCKS.
Urm.. Anyways, the difficulty has always been a plus-point for me. I started playing this game when I was like, 4 years old, with my only other Zelda game being Link's Awakening, I was too young/didn't bother to even associate the two games as being part of the same series, which may have effected me subliminally in some way or another. As for getting to the final palace, save up all the extra lives until you make your real trek there, and plan to beat it. You can get through all of the scripted encounters with a simple "FAIRY" spell, and then just die when you run out of magic. Getting through the temple should only take 3 lives, even if you don't know where you're going, use the SHIELD spell, damnit. I wasted a life at Thunderbird, then killed him the next. Killed myself on Dark Link, then took him down like you're supposed to for the final fight. That's like, 6-7 lives maximum, you can beat it pretty easily with 5 lives. Because of this topic, I'm going to play though Majora's Mask until I get my hands on the Gamecube version of Twilight Princess. |
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