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Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Terrorism is not a big threat | New poll | | |
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Rom Manic Since: 12-18-05 From: Detroit, WHAT?! Last post: 6431 days Last view: 6431 days |
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Well thats just the thing. WE'RE the fanatics to them, fighting for this democracy thing which is FOREIGN TO THEM. And they've stated again and again, they'll give us chances to pull out, and we didn't even take the time to consider that they MIGHT just wanna talk, no prejudice involved. | |||
Arwon Bazu Since: 11-18-05 From: Randwick, Sydney, NSW, Australia Last post: 6433 days Last view: 6433 days |
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Yeah I mean that shoulda happened in September 2001, before all this mess.
Bin Laden's plan required the complicity Bush, to help create the bigger impact he was looking for
(edited by Arwon on 09-22-06 12:00 AM) |
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Doppelganger 8DS Since: 11-17-05 From: 65 00 20 00 65 00 1F 00 65 00 2F 00 Last post: 6432 days Last view: 6432 days |
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Originally posted by Rom Manic Somehow I think it's far too late for anything like that to be established anyway. Though, it's never been thought of. They don't seem like the kind of people who want to talk, anyway. Well..that could be said about either side, actually. |
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Rom Manic Since: 12-18-05 From: Detroit, WHAT?! Last post: 6431 days Last view: 6431 days |
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Nothing is too late. I'm more than sure Bin Laden and his followers will co-operate if the president himself went into the depths of the enemy territory to confront him diplomatically.
Of course, there will be insults and possibly violence, but in the end it's the message that strikes peoples hearts. I ask you this: If the president was killed in cold blood begging for forgiveness by the feet of Bin Laden in true sincerity, how many followers would Bin Laden have after 1 year? |
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Xkeeper Took the board down in a blaze of glory, only to reveal how truly moronical ||bass is. Since: 11-17-05 From: Henderson, Nevada Last post: 6432 days Last view: 6432 days |
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Originally posted by Rom Manic |
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Dr_Death16 970 Since: 05-07-06 From: Iowa Last post: 6431 days Last view: 6431 days |
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This may not seem correct to most people, but I fail to see the point in debating whether or not terrorism is a threat. Why? Well, because frankly, none of us have all of the relevant information we need to make an informed decision as to the subject. Foreign matters are just that, foreign, so we as americans or europeans or etc. can't really know for sure what exactly is going on in the Middle East. The government pretty much does what it wants for all we know; only thing we as the people can do is vote for who we think will do what we want. In politics, nothing is a given, and you can't always believe everything you perceive. For instance, in a simple example, the government says that around 2500 soldiers have died in combat. How can we be so sure? How can we even know that all of these "huge terrorist leaders" such as Al-Zarqawi are really dead or captured, and that we're not just being led on by lies? We can't really be sure of something that we don't personally witness. | |||
Rom Manic Since: 12-18-05 From: Detroit, WHAT?! Last post: 6431 days Last view: 6431 days |
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2,897, to be exact
And it's not the information that you have that counts, it is the message you are trying to portray with the things that you know. |
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Doppelganger 8DS Since: 11-17-05 From: 65 00 20 00 65 00 1F 00 65 00 2F 00 Last post: 6432 days Last view: 6432 days |
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Originally posted by Dr_Death16 This is actually a good point, and food for thought. But still, since it IS the only information we have to go on, we have to assume that, there being no other alternative, it's the truth. |
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Salmon Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-18-05 From: Norway Last post: 6448 days Last view: 6437 days |
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If you cannot discuss anything because you may never know anything with 100% certainty then you may never open your mouth to say anything. To aquiesce your leaders because you don't know as many facts as they do is dangerous, "the world needs critical voices" and all that.
B'sides, I don't think anyone actually expects any of these discussions to change the way the WoT is being conducted, doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss it, though. Bill Clinton is appearing on FOX News tomorrow, by the way. Slamming the Bush Administration for not trying to stop bin Laden or any terrorist organizations ahead of the September 11 attacks. In the interview, he says (regarding capturing Osama bin Laden and stopping terrorist attacks) "at least I tried, that's the difference between me and some, including all of the right-wingers who are attacking me now. They ridiculed me for trying, they had 8 months to try, they did not try, I tried. So I tried and failed." The 8 months he's talking about is the time between Bush's inaguration and the September 11 attacks. |
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Dr_Death16 970 Since: 05-07-06 From: Iowa Last post: 6431 days Last view: 6431 days |
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There's a distinct difference between saying there is no point to something and saying "Absolutely don't discuss it, ever!"
Besides, government is a lot more mysterious than other aspects of our lives. What happens on foreign ground and in those government buildings is really a mystery at this juncture, and I wanted to point that out. |
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rubixcuber Mole Since: 09-08-06 From: St. Louis, MO Last post: 6541 days Last view: 6541 days |
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While terrorism might be no more likely to kill you than slipping in the bathroom, it has a much greater impact. Destroying the WTC may not have killed as many people as sharks and bears and accidents, it had a large impact on NYC and on the economy. | |||
Jomb Deddorokku Since: 12-03-05 From: purgatory Last post: 6434 days Last view: 6434 days |
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There is no doubt it's had a greater impact than sharks or bears, all I'm saying is that the impact is artificial and man-made, if we gave it as much coverage as the average car pile up on the interstate it would have little impact at all. Are the lives of the people who died in terrorist attacks really more valuable than the people who were killed by sharks, bears, drunk drivers, lightning strikes, hurricanes, earthquakes, falling in the bathtub, regular murderers, smoking, etc? It's being used as propaganda to allow the government to wage wars, spend outrageous sums of money, and get re-elected on the platform of fear. If we applied the same level of paranoia to the extremely higher death toll we pay for having automobiles, we'd all be walking everywhere and car manufacturers would be bombed in the name of public safety. But I guess having a car is more important than thousands of lives, but our freedom is not. | |||
emcee Red Super Koopa Since: 11-20-05 Last post: 6432 days Last view: 6431 days |
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There seems to be two extremes for people's opinions on the terrorists' motives. The first is that they "Hate us because of our freedom", and that their ultimate goal is to spread their religion to every corner of the globe through violence (their "Jihad"). The other is that they have legitimate grievances and that their ultimate goal is to remove "Imperilistic" Western forces from the Muslim World. As Pat Buccanan puts it "They hate us because of what we do, not who we are".
I don't buy either of these arguments. Its true that the war in Iraq is probably a great recruiting tool for terrorists, but its not like terrorism didn't exist before we invaded Iraq. And maybe if we pulled all our troops out of the entire Middle East and the surrounding area, the terrorism would stop. But these few scared men hiding out in the mountains using misguided youths with bombs strapped to themselves as weapons don't speak for the entire Muslim World. Their complaints before our invasion of Afghanastan and Iraq were things like troops stationed in Saudi Arabia, and the very existance of foriegn embassies. These are not legimate grievances. It's just extreme xenophobia. And its not the ideologies of the majority of the Muslim World. This is not a war between cultures. It shouldn't be a war at all. It should be about finding and bringing to justice this handful xenophobic murderers.
Its possible that everything we're being told about whats going on in the Middle East has been lies. But unless you have any real proof were being lied to its just a crackpot theory. It think the majority of those who think the government is constantly lying about everything from casualties in Iraq to whether or not 9/11 was an "inside job", don't believe that based on any real proof, but just because people tend to assume that anything that seems powerful and secretive must be up to no good. But really the government isn't that good at keeping secrets, and if there was any case to be made for these conspiracy theories, it would have been leaked to the New York Times a long time ago. Just like NSA wiretapping and secret CIA prisons. As far as whether terrorism is a big threat, well falling down the stairs may kill alot more people then terrorism, but it generally only kills one person at a time (unless there's several people on the stairs who somehow get knocked over by the first guy like bowling pins). The fact there are people who want to kill alot of people at once is something to be concerned about. Determining how much of a threat something is, is less about looking back at what has happened, and more about looking forward to what could happen. I just don't buy this false choice between our civil liberties/following international law, and our security. Things like better trained airport security, joining forces with other countries' intelligence agencies, and actually implementing the majority of the security recomendations from the 9/11 commission, would do alot more good then stupid things like, secrect prisons, torture (or "coerced interrogation"), racial profiling and warrantless wiretaping. Things that not only are rarely effective, but often make matters worse. |
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Dr_Death16 970 Since: 05-07-06 From: Iowa Last post: 6431 days Last view: 6431 days |
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Originally posted by emceeYou don't understand. The point is not what I think or you think is being done in this war on terror, the point is that we can't know exactly what is going on. We're the uninformed masses, and that's why we elect leaders who know what is going on better than we do. So, unless you claim to have vision similar to an omniscient godlike being's, then I see nothing here to disprove my point. Don't assume that all you see and feel is real. |
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Sinfjotle Lordly? No, not quite. Since: 11-17-05 From: Kansas Last post: 6433 days Last view: 6432 days |
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Dr_Death, the problem with holding information from us, is that there are so many new stations world wide that they would go bat-shit insane to figure out a news story that would piss people off in America. Nothing big is being kept from us, especially with the soldiers constantly writing home.
If we're doing something that makes a difference, we know about it. Holding information from a society like ours is just a tiresome pain in the ass that will never work. (On large scale of course, if you go and secretly assassinate someone...) With very few restrictions on internet, I'm prett confident that we aren't getting a filtered report. |
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emcee Red Super Koopa Since: 11-20-05 Last post: 6432 days Last view: 6431 days |
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Originally posted by Dr_Death16 I'm not trying to disprove your point. I agree that we could be being lied to. But I could say anything could be happening, but without proof that doesn't mean a whole lot. |
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Deleted User Banned Since: 05-08-06 Last post: None Last view: 6432 days |
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Terrorism is the excuse, petroleum is the objective. It is quite obvious. The media makes a big deal out of it to gain an audience. | |||
Dr_Death16 970 Since: 05-07-06 From: Iowa Last post: 6431 days Last view: 6431 days |
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Originally posted by NeitzluberYou win for bringing nothing to this topic, or any of the topics you posted in this forum. Thanks for your brilliant evidence-based argument and better luck next time. By the way, if we care that much about ol' petrol, we'd have more fun invading Venezuela, they hate us too. I'm sure the government could cook up some excuse to explain hostility towards them, and they have a lot more oil that Iraq. Yet apparently that's not going to happen. |
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