 |
| Register | Login | |||||
 |
Main
| Memberlist
| Active users
| Calendar
| Chat
| Online users Ranks | FAQ | ACS | Stats | Color Chart | Search | Photo album |
|
| | ||
|
| Register | Login | |||||
|
Main
| Memberlist
| Active users
| Calendar
| Chat
| Online users Ranks | FAQ | ACS | Stats | Color Chart | Search | Photo album |
|
| | ||
| 0 users currently in ROM Hacking-Related Releases. |
| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - ROM Hacking-Related Releases - Zelda: Parallel Worlds *Released!* |
New poll |  |  |
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 | Add to favorites | Next older thread |
| User | Post | ||
|
curteoustonone Newcomer                Since: 12-31-06 Last post: 6327 days Last view: 6292 days |
| ||
Originally posted by Kailieann I really, really disagree with this one... an adventure game should be confusing and puzzling, when I was younger and played ALTTP one of the things I loved about it was the fact that it was damn near impossible to figure out how to beat certain parts... and I would find myself at the beginning of the level playing all over again. Now, granted it is a bitch to beat the guardhouse... and a bitch to lose and start the game all over... but it doesn't make the game bad... theres so much to it you can't just assume and judge... plus.. who the hell cares about bad grammar. I am sorry, if anyone is really bothered by someone saying i instead of I then I think that is stupider than trying to badmouth this game... yeah thats my two cents I suppose EDIT: and I hope you all see the irony in me using the non existent word STUPIDER (edited by curteoustonone on 12-31-06 07:05 PM) |
|||
Glyphodon    Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6319 days Last view: 6300 days |
| ||
| It's only natural that bad grammar would not annoy you. In the same way an especially stinky person would not be annoyed by something equally rancid.
EDIT: I hope you all see the irony in the fact that stupider is indeed a word. (edited by Glyph Phoenix on 12-31-06 07:11 PM) |
|||
|
Kailieann Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6278 days Last view: 6278 days |
| ||
Originally posted by curteoustonone The bulk of the intelligent people on the board. <+Metal_Man88> This game is awesome, in the same way being sat on by an elephant is awesome. (edited by Kailieann on 12-31-06 07:13 PM) |
|||
Mediocre Ibex? Micro-Goomba  Since: 11-24-05 From: Illinois Last post: 6327 days Last view: 6327 days |
| ||
| hey, if the elephant sits in the right place, it can be quite arousing... my final moments will be pure bliss. and you thought Michael Hutchence had a dangerous fetish, did you? | |||
Googie   390  Since: 11-22-05 From: Corona Queens New York Last post: 6281 days Last view: 6281 days |
| ||
| Where's the annual AHA awards when you need it? I sent this hack to my niece, and she loves it. She wanted me to give you guys a big thank you hug for making this hack, since she's a big Zelda fan.
*goes back to playing!  |
|||
|
curteoustonone Newcomer Since: 12-31-06 Last post: 6327 days Last view: 6292 days |
| ||
| Well, I see how serious this is being taken. You guys kind of need to calm down. Me saying who cares about a bit of bad grammar is not an attack against any of you so I hope you do not take it that way. What I am saying is that just because the game has some bad grammar does not make it a bad game and sure the beginning is hard, but it is also new. Zelda was hard till I beat it 50 times and now I can do it in a few short hours. BTW, I do consider myself an intelligent person, however, when it comes to something such as a videogame, I think it is okay to drop intelligence as a main factor and have fun. Because if we were really into intellectual discussion than what the hell is the point of videogames that restrain you from performing acts that you could figure in your brain. IE: hopping a fence in the game.
My point is that the game has its flaws... as does everything else in life... it does not need to be badmouthed... critiqued yes, but not badmouthed... and as for whoever it was that called me stinky or some shit like that... thanks... I have no need to even say anything back to you cause you have proven my point EDIT: Ah, my bad I suppose on the whole 'stupider' thing - I was schooled that it is improper to use that term but I suppose modern english allows it... my point was that you can understand what I am saying even using something nonexistent... and that perfect grammar does not in fact show intelligence... but details (edited by curteoustonone on 12-31-06 07:52 PM) |
|||
|
Metal Man88 Gold axe It appears we have been transported to a time in which everything is on fire! Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6278 days Last view: 6278 days |
| ||
| I have played up to the guardhouse. Well, as far as I could get before losing my mind from constant death.
I'm not a bad gamer, ya see, but the first part of the ghame left me no hints to go find item #1, and it definately didn't tell me where to look for yet another important passageway to that guardhouse. And once I got in there, it went from pointless wandering to constant death. I had about 4 hearts and no sword, and guards of all kinds relentlessly chased me through the castle, killing me repeatedly. Now, had I a sword to kill them with, this might be challenging. Instead, it has been pointless and annoying. I'm amazed that most people got as far as they did, and consider the hack 'doable', however it needs to either point you in the right direction somewhere or give you a way to attack. Otherwise it makes me think that Link is some sort of kamikaze, running through an insanely guarded guardhouse with no weapons and no armor. 
It's not that this is 'serious business', but I tend to worry about the hacking ability of a person who takes 3 years to create the equivalent of a Zelda meatgrinder. |
|||
|
jedpossum Newcomer Since: 12-09-06 From: Somewhere in this reality. Last post: 6327 days Last view: 6278 days |
| ||
| Congrats!! On such a great hack on a great game. | |||
Deflaktor Tektite  Since: 12-10-05 From: Germany Last post: 6314 days Last view: 6278 days |
| ||
| huh?
i think this game is easy even without a sword. if you got little energy just kill some easy enemies with bottles and whoa you got full hearts. the most challenging thing ive seen so far is getting this piece of heart behind the spikes. this game is just  . this is the best (and only) zelda hack ever! well done! |
|||
SuperKawaiiNeko Paragoomba  Since: 11-23-05 From: Dream Chaser Last post: 6306 days Last view: 6306 days |
| ||
Originally posted by Black Telomeres Yes. Yes you are. As has been said before, after three years, the game should be near perfect. Originally posted by Black Telomeres You are speaking as though the two are mutually exclusive. This is not the case. Indeed, I would say that a GREAT DEAL of difficulty can be extracted from poor level design. (This scenario doesnt actually occur in the game, but) if there is a narrow (read: one space) bridge with bottomless pits on either side, and an enemy in the middle of said bridge, and you MUST cross with no weapons....that would be a very difficult feat to accomplish. It would be, in a word, DIFFICULT. That difficulty is derived directly from poor level design. You should never be forced to take a hit through no fault of the player, unless it is part of the story. There should be a means to avoid damage. Anything else is like putting a gap that is too wide for the characters possible jump distance and saying its difficult. There are, essentially, two types of difficulty. Good and bad. The above examples of the kngiht on the bridge, and the impossible jump, and the garunteed hit are all instances of bad difficulty. They are frustrating and have little to do with player skill. Difficulty should always, ALWAYS.....*ALWAYS* be a test of player skill. That is what makes difficult games fun. The feeling of "Yes! I am the best!" that you get when you complete it. Beating it and thinking "Man, I finally got lucky." isnt fun at all. Other examples of bad difficulty often involve poor play control. You ever play one of those old platformers where they have the super long, barely completable jumps, and the delay on the jump button is almost a full second? That is bad difficulty via horrible play control. That should not be. Now, Ive had people tell me "You just suck. You need to learn the timing!" and to that I say "No. Screw you." When you press the jump button, you should jump. Its that simple. You should not wait, and then jump. It is not the wait button. It is the jump button. Now, Im not saying this hack has bad play control, Im just giving additional examples of the bad kind of difficulty. Lets go back to the knight on the bridge. Lets also give the player a sword. Maybe a shield. Suddenly, we have something that looks like a chance! Its the same knight on the bridge, but the circumstances are completely different. Now its a FIGHT. Its still hard...theres bottomless pit everywhere, so you cant run away or dodge. You have to know when to block, when to strike. Perhaps you have to hit him with a special item during a small opportunity to set him prone and then quickly change to your sword to damage him. That is a direct test of your skill. That is a test of your ability to read the situation, weather you need to attack or defend, and your reflexes in doing so. Thats hard, but its FUN. Im sorry about the long winded post, but not enough players (or developers!!) know the distinction between the two. Now, you can say "Well its SUPPOSED to be that hard." or "Maybe its not supposed to be that kind of fun." or whatever you want, and I could argue against it, but I guess in the end neither of us really knows weather the creator intended it to be fun or not. However, I *do* believe that the creator intended for as many people as possible to play, and enjoy, the game. And I think it is obvious from the posts on this very forum, indeed! in this very thread! that people are NOT enjoying the game as much as they should, and that if more people enjoyed the game, it would be more likely that others would pick it up and then ALSO enjoy it. |
|||
HyperHacker Star Mario Finally being paid to code in VB! If only I still enjoyed that. <_< Wii #7182 6487 4198 1828 Since: 11-18-05 From: Canada, w00t! My computer's specs, if anyone gives a damn. STOP TRUNCATING THIS >8^( Last post: 6279 days Last view: 6279 days |
| ||
| There are two important points being made here, but not clearly enough.
1) 3 years of development time should have ensured a very small amount of bugs, and included a decent amount of testing time. No it is not OK if you get stuck and have to reset because of a bug! Test thoroughly! I bet I spelled that wrong. This game has some nasty bugs and cases of boring, repetitive level design that need to be fixed! 2) Why don't people get this? A game that's really really hard is not fun, only frustrating. Seems every time I see a nice-looking new hack released or in progress, I think "hey, this looks nice" and then I see a comment like "oh BTW this game is fucking hard, if you haven't beat the original 4356 times blindfolded with the sound off then you have no chance of surviving this", usually from the author themselves. That pretty much ensures I won't play the hack, even if I did beat the original and enjoy it, because being frustrated is NOT FUN, and I play games for FUN. (edited by Alice on 12-31-06 09:23 PM) |
|||
Black Telomeres Gator Since: 10-12-06 Last post: 6283 days Last view: 6278 days |
| ||
| There has only been one point made against the level design in this entire thread so far that is tied to the difficulty of the game. All the others have been on physical difficulty alone. Therefore there is no need for lectures on how level design can make a game harder.
And it is not being absorbed by the audience clearly enough that It does not matter if the level design makes the game harder, because, as I have said, the truth of level design is that it must be esoteric and insane. Esoteric level design, even if it makes the game harder, is not a failure, because the goal of level design is to be interesting and suberb. It is not to make the game easy. If that was so, every game would have a completely linear dungeon design and we would all be happy and love it. What is making the hack too hard for people is that you have no weapon, a huge number of enemies lurking around in the rooms, less health pickups, and a few other things. The layout of the dungeons themselves has nothing to do with any of this. It can aggrivate it by making you backtrack, but the backtracking alone is not the main factor. Furthermore, one of the creators of the hack has noted that the hack is extremely difficult. Thus, he is probably accepting that the widest possible audience will not be able to complete his hack. Believe it or not, there are some crazy people who want you to earn the right to play/finish their game. While I do not know if the creators of this hack are of that mindset, I would not assume that the creators want the widest possible audience. Afterall, there are quite a few hacks released here that are extremely and near impossibly hard. I would actually say a majority of the ones I've tried have been quite a bit more difficult than the original game they're based on. |
|||
|
DarkSlaya 930 Gamma Ray  Since: 11-17-05 From: Montreal, Canada Last post: 6279 days Last view: 6278 days |
| ||
| Then again, fun is purely subjective.
I'll try it, because I'm pretty bored. |
|||
|
HyperHacker Star Mario Finally being paid to code in VB! If only I still enjoyed that. <_< Wii #7182 6487 4198 1828 Since: 11-18-05 From: Canada, w00t! My computer's specs, if anyone gives a damn. STOP TRUNCATING THIS >8^( Last post: 6279 days Last view: 6279 days |
| ||
Originally posted by Black Telomeres There's a difference between non-linear and having to go back and forth across the same path 8 times without being hit. Look at Super Mario 64. It was non-linear, but it rarely had you backtracking. The goal of a video game is to provide entertainment. Playing a ridiculously hard game is not entertaining.
There. You just said it yourself. TOO HARD.
No, but if the backtracking is aggrivating, then it should be changed. No matter how good you are at the game I don't think you're going to enjoy doing the same task over and over, especially when that task is very difficult. I consider myself good at Diddy Kong Racing, but I wouldn't enjoy just playing the same level several times in a row.
Well if the idea is to make something that's fun for people who are really really good at the game, then fine. That doesn't excuse boring/annoying repitition or bugs.
Thank you. |
|||
|
Kailieann Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6278 days Last view: 6278 days |
| ||
| You seem to be using a lot of terms without understanding what they mean
The term "Interesting" does not equate to "You missed an item because there was no clue as to its location, go back through the entire dungeon and look for it" repeated ad nauseum. The distribution and quantity of monsters and items are a huge factor in the definition of "level design". And, you're right. Backtracking is not the main factor in the game. The main factor in the game is wandering around with no clues as to what you're supposed to do, and only being able to find anything by sheer dumb luck, all the while being pursued by monsters that will kill you if you're not lucky enough to avoid them, forcing you to start over from scratch. And, yeah, most hacks are more difficult than the original game. Hell, I don't even mind the difficulty level when it comes to the monsters and so forth. It's the fact that the game offers no hints whatsoever on what to do or where to go, forcing the user to stumble around blindly until they manage to find the right location (assuming they don't walk past it completely because there are NO CLUES WHATSOEVER where ANYTHING is).. Also, since this has come up several times in the chat but hasn't been mentioned once in the thread, I'll take this opportunity to point out that most of the people praising this hack have less than 30 posts under their belts, and a good chunk of them haven't said anything more than "It looks good, I can't wait to try it", which literally means they haven't played it yet. And again I'll mention that, after the fourth time backtracking through the entire dungeon, I decided to cheat. Infinite hearts, infinite bombs. The game was still too tedious for me to bother finding the fourth key. |
|||
|
Black Telomeres Gator Since: 10-12-06 Last post: 6283 days Last view: 6278 days |
| ||
| Interesting level design is indeed what the guardhouse is. It's complex, it has varied backgrounds and uses previous LTTP tilesets in a unique way. It has nothing to do with item placement. That's another factor entirely.
And, you're right. Backtracking is not the main factor in the game. The main factor in the game is wandering around with no clues as to what you're supposed to do, and only being able to find anything by sheer dumb luck The thing with this is: This is every Zelda game. You've played the originals, LTTP and the 3D ones, right? They're all "search dungeon for random crap and keys and stumble upon where you're supposed to go." I don't see how you can complain about this factor when it equates to complaining about every Zelda. Oh and just for the record, I didn't really find the guardhouse that hard. Certainly not hard enough to search out cheats to use on the Internet. As for later dungeons, who knows. They'll probably be much harder. (edited by Black Telomeres on 12-31-06 10:01 PM) |
|||
|
Kailieann Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6278 days Last view: 6278 days |
| ||
| Here's the thing, though. Backtracking in all the other Zelda games I like isn't annoying.
And, quite frankly, I only like less than half the Zelda games, so if you want to take my complaining about one badly-designed hack as complaining about the entire series, then you're dumb, but I don't care anyways. |
|||
|
curteoustonone Newcomer Since: 12-31-06 Last post: 6327 days Last view: 6292 days |
| ||
Originally posted by Kailieann Well I have played it, and I have less than 30 posts. I don't think it is fair to degrade somebodies opinion based on how often they speak out on the website. BTW... why is everyone arguing, it has been said that people have different opinions... so some will find it fun.. some will not... like all God Damned video games... some will like.. some won't... EDIT: Btw I realize this is your second post I quoted.. I hope you do not think I am trying to attack you or just argue with you.. just voice my opinion.. (edited by curteoustonone on 12-31-06 10:09 PM) |
|||
|
HyperHacker Star Mario Finally being paid to code in VB! If only I still enjoyed that. <_< Wii #7182 6487 4198 1828 Since: 11-18-05 From: Canada, w00t! My computer's specs, if anyone gives a damn. STOP TRUNCATING THIS >8^( Last post: 6279 days Last view: 6279 days |
| ||
Originally posted by Black Telomeres Fancy graphics do not make a game good.
I think the difference is in the originals, sometimes you'd have to go back a ways to find something, whereas in this, you have to go back over and over to find many things with no indication as to where they might be. Backtracking occasionally is one thing, backtracking repeatedly is another. |
|||
asdf Link's Awakening ಠ_ಠ  Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6280 days Last view: 6278 days |
| ||
Originally posted by Kailieann So you cast the game aside, judged it to be terrible, and assumed the rest was similarly terrible just from that? Tell me: you used infinite hearts and infinite bombs: but did you think to cheat to get a key?  You could've done that and moved on.
I'll admit: I'm stuck there too, but I haven't thoroughly checked yet (EDIT: Oh, look, I found it. I didn't expect to find it there at first.). It's a pain in the ass - yes - but I'm not going to give up on the rest of the game just because of that one dungeon. I'll just make my comment on it: it's overkill. There's a fine line between being able to run and/or Solid Snake your way through something, and having to do the same, except with luck (see: avoiding the homing charging guards). I'll see what the rest of the game is like when I get there, though. (edited by asdf on 12-31-06 10:26 PM) (edited by asdf on 12-31-06 10:27 PM) |
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 | Add to favorites | Next older thread |
| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - ROM Hacking-Related Releases - Zelda: Parallel Worlds *Released!* |
| |
