 |
| Register | Login | |||||
 |
Main
| Memberlist
| Active users
| Calendar
| Chat
| Online users Ranks | FAQ | ACS | Stats | Color Chart | Search | Photo album |
|
| | ||
|
| Register | Login | |||||
|
Main
| Memberlist
| Active users
| Calendar
| Chat
| Online users Ranks | FAQ | ACS | Stats | Color Chart | Search | Photo album |
|
| | ||
| 0 users currently in World Affairs/Debate. |
| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Christianity vs. Scientology |
New poll |  |  |
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 | Add to favorites | Next newer thread | Next older thread |
| User | Post | ||
|
Crayola Double stone axe                   Since: 03-18-06 From: coeburn,VA Last post: 6346 days Last view: 6309 days |
| ||
| Please do not turn this into a flame war this is just another honest set of reasoning.( this argument stems from one i was having earlier that ended before i could hear a good answer so i came here)
A cult and a religion using textbook definitions are almost the same thing. Christianity is equal to Scientology. They have the same amount of concrete evidence. They both take you money. They both have improvable ideas behind them. They were both made up by man, and if you say Christianity was made by god or Jesus prove it. Don’t think that I will recognize religious figures as facts just because so many others do. How is Scientology different from Christianity on a religious level? Wow other people are getting really upset and taking it to heart on yahoo. Please keep in mind I am just an honest observer trying to reach one conclusion or another about an idea I am not trying to disprove anyone’s beliefs but I find it ironical that Christians call Scientologist fools and am trying to see how vast a difference there is between Scientology and Christianity that they would call them fools. And no I am not as stupid as you might say I am, (called that several times on yahoo) I am not some freak I enjoy being on the internet and learning and debating I have no ill will in my questioning and I’m just trying to put my opinion out there if you don’t care about my ideas then don’t post if you disagree good explain why if you agree explain why. That should limit the flaming a wee bit and yes I really needed to put this paragraph up, people are mean as hell. (edited by Crayola on 12-11-06 01:21 AM) (edited by Crayola on 12-11-06 01:38 AM) (edited by Crayola on 12-11-06 01:42 AM) |
|||
NSNick Gohma IF ALL ELSE FAILS USE BOOZE   Since: 11-17-05 From: Last post: 6280 days Last view: 6280 days |
| ||
| I would say that the fact that the man who invented Scientology often referred to making a religion as a good way to make money would lend itself to Scientology's lack of credibility. | |||
Ailure Mr. Shine I just want peace...   Since: 11-17-05 From: Sweden Last post: 6279 days Last view: 6278 days |
| ||
Originally posted by CrayolaApart from the fee of being a member of the Swedish church (which is not really that high... I don't ever recall paying it yet, might be free up until a certain age. xD) And the donations at the church is optional. While Scientology requires constants fees, and requires alot more money than a college education in USA to complete it. Oh yeah, I hate Scientology. I don't even consider it a relgion, but a major scam. :/ (edited by Ailure on 12-11-06 01:50 AM) |
|||
|
Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6278 days Last view: 6278 days |
| ||
| 1. Christianity was founded prior to taxation. Which is the primary reason for the existence of scientology
2. Christianity makes charity highly wanted. As in, you should commit charity out of love and kindness. Scientology requires money for advancement in the faith. 3. Christianity spread in the underground in the Eastern Roman empire during the first and second centuries of the new millenium. First in Greece and small communities throughout the empire. It, simply due to chronology, makes it an Old Faith. It is also multi-interpretational without any real All Encompassing Singular Power Of Doctrine. This allows its adherents to have many views. Scientology is a directly enforced movement that doesn't allow for distinct debate. Regardless of their mythological backings and the usual anti-religiousity of the wide, young, internet world (I myself am a secularist Catholic, but I'm not moronic enough to discount religions and such). |
|||
emcee Red Super Koopa Since: 11-20-05 Last post: 6279 days Last view: 6278 days |
| ||
| Christianity and Scientology are both just religions. The issue isn't with Scientology itself, but with the Church of Scientology.
However, since the vast majority of Scientologists belong to the Church. The two are rather inseparable. So any issues with the church tends to be taken on by the religion itself. Christians, on the other hand, are spread out over thousands of individual flocks, among several divisions, broken into subdivisions and denominations. So yeah, on the surface they're similar. They're both religions. But most people's complaints aren't with the tenets of Scientology itself (except maybe the no psychiatry thing), but with the church that runs it. So the two can't really be compared. |
|||
|
Alastor Fearless Moderator Hero  Since: 11-17-05 From: An apartment by DigiPen, Redmond, Washington Last post: 6278 days Last view: 6278 days |
| ||
| It seems to me that it is strongly probable that the universe was created by someone or something - after all, we know that the universe was created from nothing percievable, but this runs contrary to logic. There is empirical evidence that Jesus existed, and was a good man. There is nothing about Christianity that is in and of itself impossible, and though much of the beliefs are unlikely, and much of the bible is just christian (or, in the old testament, jewish) myth, the core of the religion is not innately wrong. Much of what people have against Christianity is attributable solely to the Roman Catholic church.
Beyond everything wrong about Scientology that has been previously said. Beyond the immensely improbably story of the creation of our life told in it. It is distinctly wrong. In scientology writing, an evolutionary link between other primates and man is mentioned as fact. Trouble is, this link, the name of which I cannot remember, was proven a hoax within a very short period of time after the first writings on Scientology were published. This is perhaps the most striking flaw, but not the only, and I am confident that if you did further research you would see more. Yes, it is true that much of what is in the bible is false, but this is attributable to the inclusion of mythology in additions to the writings of the time of Jesus. Lol, old testament. But despite this, much of what is in the bible is proven fact, while scientology is easily likened to made-up bullshit, but... Beyond everything else, Christianity's core cannot be proven wrong, but Scientology's core most definitely, beyond a shadow of a doubt can... And, going beyond the corruption behind each, that is the difference between Christianity and Scientology. (edited by Alastor on 12-11-06 02:22 AM) |
|||
Silvershield   580  Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6291 days Last view: 6279 days |
| ||
Originally posted by AlastorLike what? Being militantly opposed to homosexuals, declaring that all non-Christians are invariably hell-bound, taking the Bible as literal fact, refusing to accept evolution...? Because those are all Catholic precepts. Right? In any case, I don't like to cop-out by referring to pop culture, but the South Park episode about Scientology more or less sums it up. The entire religion is a money-making scheme, quite blatantly at times. |
|||
|
Alastor Fearless Moderator Hero Since: 11-17-05 From: An apartment by DigiPen, Redmond, Washington Last post: 6278 days Last view: 6278 days |
| ||
Originally posted by SilvershieldThere. I have fixed your statement.Originally posted by AlastorWhat does the phrase "much of" mean? I have no clue. And disregarding sarcasm even, yes, hate against homosexuality came from the old testament, which in my opinion doesn't count as it's basically just jewish mythology, and from the statements of the pope and therefore the Roman Catholic church. The same is true about non-christians being hellbound. Taking the bible as fact is just ignorance, and evolution being non-accepted stems mainly from that. I was talking about the core, though, so all of those are non issues... Which just proves further that you didn't bother to fully read my post before responding, or at least that you didn't take the time to actually think it through. Don't be purposefully antagonistic. It's a pretty lame doctrine. (edited by Alastor on 12-11-06 02:47 AM) (edited by Alastor on 12-11-06 02:48 AM) |
|||
|
Silvershield 580 Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6291 days Last view: 6279 days |
| ||
| If, in your estimation, the Roman Catholic Church only accounts for "much of" and not "most of" society's negative perceptions of Christianity, why use Catholicism as your example at all? The remark wasn't relevant, didn't add to the rest of your point, and is frankly nonsensical in its context.
Why not opt for Protestantism or Evangelical Christianity? Catholicism had not been mentioned earlier in this thread, and you bring it up of your own accord. So...? |
|||
|
Alastor Fearless Moderator Hero Since: 11-17-05 From: An apartment by DigiPen, Redmond, Washington Last post: 6278 days Last view: 6278 days |
| ||
| ... I refer you back to my previous post, as I have made several edits which I do not believe you have seen. As for some of what you said, though, I refer mainly to what the thread creator said - taxes to the church are the roman catholic church's doing, for instance, and that this old practice can be confused with the donations most churches encourage. Much of what popes have said is just wrong, and lord knows how many problems that's caused (though many popes are not bad people at all). So yeah, I blame the Roman Catholic church for a lot of it and there is most definitely not no reason to bring it up, as seems to me to be inherently obvious.
My interpretation was that the roman catholic church was Rome attempting to grab power back by supporting christianity, which was the hip new thing at the time, while still oppressing the masses and having rule... But this time it was through the pope, who was basically king but with a different name and a claimed connection to God. This may be totally false, I wouldn't really know... But clearly some of what they've done is obviously wrong. Again, it seems like you just wanted to be antagonistic here. And that's not cool. (edited by Alastor on 12-11-06 02:51 AM) (edited by Alastor on 12-11-06 02:52 AM) (edited by Alastor on 12-11-06 02:56 AM) |
|||
beneficii Broom Hatter Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6282 days Last view: 6278 days |
| ||
| Alastor,
Come on, it's not really just the Catholics. Consider, for example, Westboro Baptist Church headed by Fred Phelps, well, you get the idea. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church |
|||
|
Alastor Fearless Moderator Hero Since: 11-17-05 From: An apartment by DigiPen, Redmond, Washington Last post: 6278 days Last view: 6278 days |
| ||
| It is inherently obvious that fundamentalists are crazy, though. Do we really have to go there? | |||
|
Silvershield 580 Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6291 days Last view: 6279 days |
| ||
Originally posted by AlastorFirst, you need to define the problems most people have with Christianity. If you were to ask me, I would say that most non-Christians criticize Christians for: 1. hating homosexuals. 2. insisting that you need to be Christian to be saved. 3. taking the Bible as literal fact. 4. denying evolution. There are other problems, sure, but those are the most common as far as I've seen. Note that the list does not include 5. belief in transubstantiation. 6. having a strong hierarchy. 7. belief in the virginity of the Holy Mother. Numbers 5-7 are, of course, traditionally Catholic, and while they are not beliefs that are held by the Christian community at large, most critics will not use precepts of that sort as a reason to dislike Christianity. One the other hand, 1-4 are major reasons that people dislike Christians, and none of those four statements are Catholic, either doctrinally or in practice. You stated that people dislike Christians because of Catholic beliefs or practices, and I disagree with that statement. Originally posted by AlastorThe Old Testament is secondary to the New Testament, and no Catholic will take most of the OT's anachronistic precepts with any seriousness. Originally posted by AlastorThe modern Church does not antagonize homosexuals. Surely there is tension, and surely the Church does not exactly "embrace" the gay community, but Catholics are far more liberal in that regard that most other Christian sects. Originally posted by AlastorCatholics dropped the idea of non-Christians being hell-bound during missionary work in Asia, South America, and elsewhere, and the idea has been absent ever since. Originally posted by AlastorAgain, a non-Catholic ideal. Originally posted by AlastorThe rest of your post doesn't reference Catholicism specifically. You reference Christianity as a whole, but the various denominations are so different from one another that you essentially have to reference one by name if you're trying to make that sort of point. I read your post, and understood it, but I don't see how it would explain your claim that Catholicism is the impetus for a lot of anti-Christian feeling. Originally posted by AlastorI act antagonistic when I see people make remarks against my faith without substantiating them. If you want to talk about Catholicism, feel free. But provide support for your claims. I'll be the first to admit that my religion is flawed in certain respects, but I won't stand for a broad insult that offers no evidence or explanation whatsoever. |
|||
|
Crayola Double stone axe Since: 03-18-06 From: coeburn,VA Last post: 6346 days Last view: 6309 days |
| ||
| are we getting way off topic or is that just me? | |||
|
emcee Red Super Koopa Since: 11-20-05 Last post: 6279 days Last view: 6278 days |
| ||
Originally posted by Alastor At the risk of entering a religious debate (I hate those), I have to say, you're way off base. First of all, the Old Testament is a large part of the Christian faith. Although most Christians choose to not take every part of it literally, few reject it wholesale. So if all it takes to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that a religion is wrong is some reference to an evolution hoax, well Christianity doesn't stand a chance. But it really makes no sense to try to conclusively disprove someone. No matter what your argument is, they'll always be able to make a counter-argument that keeps open the possibility they're right. That's why, if it was a scientific debate (which it isn't, which is why this is so dumb, anyway), the burden of proof would be on them. So, even though some of the beliefs of Scientologists, may be, I don't know "stupid beyond belief" comes to mind, they are still no more provable or disprovable then many Christian beliefs. But this is all still religion, so I don't see what proof has to do with it one way or the other. |
|||
|
Silvershield 580 Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6291 days Last view: 6279 days |
| ||
| Is it true that Scientology is based around a doctrine that reads, word for word, like a trashy science fiction story? Ya know, aliens and space ships and whatnot? That's how South Park portrayed it at least and, while that show is hardly the most reliable source, I've heard that in that case it was more or less accurate in its portrayal. | |||
|
Alastor Fearless Moderator Hero Since: 11-17-05 From: An apartment by DigiPen, Redmond, Washington Last post: 6278 days Last view: 6278 days |
| ||
| Silvershield: If I did not make it clear that I was talking about prior actions of the Catholic church - as in, several centuries ago actions - then I apologize. I basically despise the way it rose up, but I have no major qualms with it now, as it hasn't been evil in quite some time, that I can tell.
emcee: That is so flagrantly disregarding my point I'm not even going to try to refute it. Edit: But I'm feeling argumentative, so just to explain exactly how you have selectively read my post... I clearly outlined that if you accept that much of the Bible is myth then there's nothing really wrong, but even at its very core Scientology can be proven wrong. If you did not notice that, that is your fault, not mine. Yes, there's stuff in the Bible that it obviously wrong. There's way more wrong stuff in the Scientology writings, and it's much more ingrained in the faith. Originally posted by SilvershieldYes. Yes, that IS true. (edited by Alastor on 12-11-06 03:18 AM) (edited by Alastor on 12-11-06 03:22 AM) (edited by Alastor on 12-11-06 03:26 AM) |
|||
|
Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6278 days Last view: 6278 days |
| ||
| SS ->three of those are only issues in western society.
seriously. africa. doesn't give a fuck about gay rights. turkey. has more creationists than the US. most of teh rest of the world take their holy books as literal fact. |
|||
|
emcee Red Super Koopa Since: 11-20-05 Last post: 6279 days Last view: 6278 days |
| ||
Originally posted by Alastor Well if your point was anything other then "You can disprove Scientology, but not Christianity, except for the Old Testament, which is just myths", the it was cleverly hidden in multiple paragraphs saying exactly that. |
|||
|
Alastor Fearless Moderator Hero Since: 11-17-05 From: An apartment by DigiPen, Redmond, Washington Last post: 6278 days Last view: 6278 days |
| ||
| Not just the old testament. Much of what comes after the first parts of the new testament, which was generally later writings tacked on. Lol, revelations. And yeah, some of the stuff that's true has stuff that's not true in it, because that is the nature of how stories go. People just want to make them better, but that doesn't mean that the core beliefs are wrong and that doesn't mean that the underlying principles that wise men have taught are wrong.
Scientology, on the other hand, has numerous obvious faults that were there from the very start, as can be empirically proven because we know the early texts and it hasn't even had a century. |
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 | Add to favorites | Next newer thread | Next older thread |
| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Christianity vs. Scientology |
| |
