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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Looks like the Dems are winning |
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Jomb Deddorokku                   Since: 12-03-05 From: purgatory Last post: 6281 days Last view: 6281 days |
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| Maybe make it mandatory to pass a gun safety class in order to own firearms? No amount of laws are going to keep guns from criminals, who will not register them. And its just not worth giving up your constitutional right to own a firearm over fear about criminals having guns, and most likely would do little to stop the criminals anyway. I think our problems with violent crime in this country stem from a glorification of violence and violent people in the society as a whole, mixed with a justice system which does more harm than good in the long run by not even attempting to rehabilitate most criminals, and infact making most of them more violent than they origionally were. | |||
Alkis   Since: 12-28-06 From: Arletpolis < FA < Arletland Last post: 6303 days Last view: 6302 days |
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| Criminals should be tortured in public so that anyone who even thinks about committing a crime knows what awaits him/her. | |||
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Jomb Deddorokku Since: 12-03-05 From: purgatory Last post: 6281 days Last view: 6281 days |
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| That sort of justice would make us worse than the criminals who we are torturing. | |||
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Alkis Since: 12-28-06 From: Arletpolis < FA < Arletland Last post: 6303 days Last view: 6302 days |
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| Perhaps, but public torture scares any would-be criminals, so the ends justify the means. | |||
MathOnNapkins  1100  In SPC700 HELL Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6279 days Last view: 6279 days |
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| I believe the burden is on you to show how making said torture public would be any more of a deterrent. Pretty much anyone who is going to commit a crime knows what the consequences are going to be. | |||
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Alkis Since: 12-28-06 From: Arletpolis < FA < Arletland Last post: 6303 days Last view: 6302 days |
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| Because happily sitting in a cell is not as painful as it should be. Many criminals don't care to wait, besides, jail is the best place to improve one's criminal knowledge. Quick, painful tortures in mass media would cut crime in half if not less. | |||
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MathOnNapkins 1100 In SPC700 HELL Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6279 days Last view: 6279 days |
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| So what you're basically saying is you have no regard for basic human dignity. What if we tortured them in the prisons, away from the public eye? Surely you can explain to us how it being public would make it anymore effective. That was what I was really getting at, by the way. In addition, by making it public, you will create a subculture of sick(er) fucks who can actually get entertainment out of seeing people tortured for free. Let's just cut to the chase and introduce bloodsports. | |||
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6279 days Last view: 6279 days |
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| The sanctions, legal challenges, training, employment of torturers, equipment, legislation, and other requirements to make your public torture a reality are just too much. Excusing the absolute immoral and inexcusable lack of justification behind the entire idea, yeah. Costs totally outweigh the benefits. The US system is pretty draconian and inefficient by Western standards anyhow. | |||
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Alkis Since: 12-28-06 From: Arletpolis < FA < Arletland Last post: 6303 days Last view: 6302 days |
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| Making it public is more effective than privately because then everyone out there will know what awaits them if they commit such crime. Also, think about it: Killing one person and killings ten persons has the same sentence: death. Death just means their suffering is ended quickly, painlessly, and peacefully. That's not what they deserve. That's not going to scare anyone into not murdering. "Oh, who cares, if I get caught, I'll get injected and die, big deal, it doesn't hurt."
Public torture would serve make an example as well as bring proper justice to wrongdoers. This tortures would be psychological, not physical, as psychological torture scars one for life, while physical goes away. |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6279 days Last view: 6279 days |
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| You really underestimate that whole "fear of death" thing that most of those new fangled homo sapiens have gotten themselves riled up about. | |||
Silvershield  580  Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6291 days Last view: 6279 days |
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Originally posted by AlkisTo the best of my memory, that sort of statistic has very little factual basis. It's a common justification for capital punishment - that people will be less likely to commit crimes if they know the death penalty is on the books - but I don't think I've ever seen any reliable numbers to prove it. |
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NSNick Gohma IF ALL ELSE FAILS USE BOOZE  Since: 11-17-05 From: Last post: 6281 days Last view: 6281 days |
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| There is no significant change in crime rates when the death penalty is introduced. It's not a deterrant.
(Sociology Deviance class ftw) |
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Alkis Since: 12-28-06 From: Arletpolis < FA < Arletland Last post: 6303 days Last view: 6302 days |
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| I personally fear long, prolonged pain than just... err... death. Besides, psychological torture will give them a trauma and they'll be scared out of their minds to commit a crime. | |||
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6279 days Last view: 6279 days |
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| Or...you know, psychological trauma creates broken individuals that are more apt to commit crimes again. I mean, in the Middle East and the FP of Pakistan crime rates aren't particularly low despite having your hands cut off for stealing bread (although that characterization is a little out dated). Criminal rehabilitation is designed to do the best to reintegrate the people back into society so that they can contribute. Making people psychotics isn't the best way to go around that.
Really, I just want to see some studies or stats on why you're spewing this. |
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Jomb Deddorokku Since: 12-03-05 From: purgatory Last post: 6281 days Last view: 6281 days |
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| Our current system is bordering on Barbaric, and it contributes to the problem more than it helps. Why? Because something about being locked up, raped repeatedly, and treated like dogshit for years on end makes people bitter and hateful towards life. They get out with a "me against the whole world" mentality, are already hardened against and used to violence, and feel like they no longer have anything to lose as everything was taken from them. Bitter, hateful, and violent people commit even worse crimes and have even less empathy than they did going into the system. You have some serious misconceptions about what it's actually like to live in a prison.
Successfully dealing with crime is not about scaring people, it's about showing them the error of their ways, instilling a sense of empathy towards other people, etc. If you merely scare people it wont stop them if they dont think they will get caught (and most criminals dont believe they'll ever be caught), when you're not looking they'll be doing the same things again. If you can instill empathy in someone, then they wont do crime again even if no one is watching them, because they have a sense of the impact of their actions on other people. If we began with public torturing, we'd be traumatizing and emotionally scarring people. Like our current system it's likely to make them bitter, hateful, and unproductive as citizens. On top of that, we'd be desensitizing the whole society to acts of sadism and violence. Next time someone wronged you, maybe you'd just go chop their fingers off, feeling that that is the proper way to deal with things, seeing as thats how we do it officially. Criminality is not a black and white subject. Most criminals dont exist in a vaccuum where they are pure evil vs our pure good. They have families and good points about them to. What if its your son or your brother who is to be publicly tortured and killed? And your neighbors are whooping it up like its prime entertainment to watch this? Now we got whole families who hate the government for what it did to their relative who messed up and committed some crime. Ultimately I think this system would cause far more problems than it could possibly solve. Plus, it would be a national embarassment. |
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Alkis Since: 12-28-06 From: Arletpolis < FA < Arletland Last post: 6303 days Last view: 6302 days |
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| People fear pain, seeing it will scare them and they will not do it. It's a preventive measure, not so much of a punishment. | |||
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6279 days Last view: 6279 days |
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| So, ignoring the fact that the entire thread has basically proven you wrong...where is your proof of this. Statistics, hell, even officially given anecdotal evidence? | |||
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Alkis Since: 12-28-06 From: Arletpolis < FA < Arletland Last post: 6303 days Last view: 6302 days |
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| Because I'm not drawing on past ideas. I can't find anecdotes of the benefits of torture of criminals because most people consider it a bad thing. The only supporter if this that I know of is me. | |||
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MathOnNapkins 1100 In SPC700 HELL Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6279 days Last view: 6279 days |
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| Ok, let's just say for a minute that you are right. What about the dehumanizing aspect of not only having to hire people to do the torture, but also trying to get people to watch it. Obviously some people would already go watch it but I don't think much of anyone like that. | |||
SamuraiX Broom Hatter Since: 11-19-05 Last post: 6279 days Last view: 6280 days |
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Originally posted by MathOnNapkins People are barbaric. The video online of Saddam being hanged almost has well over four million views. The only thing that such corporal punishment achieves is creating a situation where the violence is considered okay, but only on a "legal" target. Think about it for a minute. In a system without corporal punishment, it is made clear that whoever is inflicting corporal damage upon another is clearly not lawful, nor is that person just. But when the only differenciating factor is if it's a punishment or just "brutality," the norm is formed: the idea that violence is intrinsically wrong is lost. If no one can see why "violence is okay" isn't a problem, then there might be another problem. |
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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Looks like the Dems are winning |
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