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| 0 users currently in ROM Hacking. |
| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - ROM Hacking - Zelda 3 ASM hacks |
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Souledge Octorok                 Since: 10-24-06 From: Limburg, Belgium Last post: 6382 days Last view: 6382 days |
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| I was wondering if anyone has made any ASM hacks, for more room headers and more sprites, which I can insert in Hyrule Magic? That is why the folder "ASM hacks" is there, no? (edited by Souledge on 10-31-06 01:55 AM) |
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MathOnNapkins  1100  In SPC700 HELL     Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6277 days Last view: 6277 days |
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| Yes. But don't get into the mindset that ASM hacks are a cure-all. Yes I could whip up a one minute ASM hack to move the location that your headers are loaded from. The problem is that Hyrule Magic wouldn't be able to see them anymore. You'd have to fundamentally alter Hyrule Magic to do that. I wouldn't worry too much, I'm working on an editor that allows you to have unlimited header room and sprite room, as well as object room. When the dungeon editor is ready I'll send you a copy, but you can be patient, yes?
The ASM hacks folder is only there to make it easy to patch your rom using Hyrule Magic. This is for advanced users only who know how to code, and know what they are doing. Not to insult you or anything, but you're likely not anywhere near that level yet. |
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Souledge Octorok Since: 10-24-06 From: Limburg, Belgium Last post: 6382 days Last view: 6382 days |
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nope, not yet anyway 
How's the work on that editor coming along? Is it anything like Hyrule Magic (user-friendly-interface)? |
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MathOnNapkins 1100 In SPC700 HELL Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6277 days Last view: 6277 days |
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| It's coming along slowly, but hopefully in the next few days you'll be able to do something useful with it. And it uses *gasp* asm hacks to the original rom to accomplish this abundance of room. What it does is expand the rom from 1 megabyte to 2 megabytes (at least), then organizes all the data sequentially past the end of the normal part of the rom. Hyrule Magic does this too, though in a somewhat stupid way, but only for Overworld data. The ultimate goal is the most user friendly editor for Zelda 3 possible, though I don't know if I'll tackle everything that HM currently does in the long run. E.g. Making a more exciting title screen would involve just straight ASM hacking, rather than just manipulating graphics. No editor should attempt this b/c each particular coder is going to want to solve that problem differently. | |||
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Souledge Octorok Since: 10-24-06 From: Limburg, Belgium Last post: 6382 days Last view: 6382 days |
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| So, is it possible to expand the rom with your editor, and then (if it isn't finished yet) return to Hyrule Magic to do normal editing, with the roomheaders and sprites expanded? | |||
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MathOnNapkins 1100 In SPC700 HELL Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6277 days Last view: 6277 days |
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| Expanding your rom is easy. The answer to your question is no, b/c Hyrule Magic only looks at address $27502 for the header pointer table, which contains 2 byte local addresses. Both Zelda 3 and Hyrule Magic only look in bank $04. Hyrule Magic especially only looks in Bank $04, but you can edit Zelda 3 to look else where quite easily. The point I'm trying to make is that Hyrule Magic is inflexible in this regard. So no, unless you feel like altering Hyrule Magic somehow, will you not be able to expand sprite or header data. i.e. you CAN expand it, in fact my editor already does this. My editor, however, cannot edit the actual data yet, it just moves it. And once it is moved into the expanded area, Hyrule Magic will not be able to see it... at all. That's the point I'm trying to make. (edited by MathOnNapkins on 10-31-06 03:00 AM) |
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Souledge Octorok Since: 10-24-06 From: Limburg, Belgium Last post: 6382 days Last view: 6382 days |
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| I see, so expanding the rom using Hyrule Magic itself is the only way to be able to still edit the game with HM. Any guide on how to do that? | |||
Moppy Red Goomba  Since: 09-26-06 From: Rochester, NY Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6280 days |
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| I didn't know you were working on a Zelda 3 Editor, Math, but it sounds interesting--automatic ROM expansion and data movement is a really nice thing to have. There's nothing worse than spending hours fooling around in an editor only to realize your data won't fit back in the ROM. The nice thing about Zelda is that you have four times the original space to work with.
Since the purpose of a ROM editor is really to simplify the editing process, it's always nice to see one that automates things like that for you.. something that a non-programmer/hacker-type person could use and still produce a decent modification. |
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MathOnNapkins 1100 In SPC700 HELL Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6277 days Last view: 6277 days |
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Originally posted by Souledge I don't think you understand at all. HM cannot, under any circumstances, expand header data. |
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Euclid Since: 11-17-05 From: Australia hmm... Last post: 6284 days Last view: 6278 days |
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| The main problem with HM is that it didn't consider some of the real issues when people do hack the game, when it came out people are just like "woo yay it works fun lets make zelda 3 hackz" etc. Now that people hacking zelda 3 is "digging deep" to change the game, these issues starts to surface up.
Hyrule Magic does expansion this way. 1. it first brings your title screen data to the 1mb area or so resulting in that few hundred byte expansion. 2. it "hardcodes" all the spaces which it knows it's not used (eg/ F8xxx area to FFFFF, 50000 to about 55000, and fills them up with dungeon rooms etc -- what you get is all the dungeons, squished into the 1mb rom (not to mention some errors may occur when it accidentally wrote over some code after where the data is suppose to end) instead of using the ample space at the back of the rom. 3. with stuff like room headers, sprites, i'm guessing it just remembers some end address and tests if your room header exceeds that size. |
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Souledge Octorok Since: 10-24-06 From: Limburg, Belgium Last post: 6382 days Last view: 6382 days |
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| I see. So, the only way to expand the rom, is through MathOnNapkins' editor or through ASM hacking. So there's no relatively easy way to expand the rom and still make it remain editable in Hyrule Magic? | |||
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MathOnNapkins 1100 In SPC700 HELL Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6277 days Last view: 6277 days |
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You can keep asking, but the answer will still be no  . Trust us. |
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Reshaper256 190 Since: 11-17-05 From: United States Last post: 6320 days Last view: 6277 days |
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| Heh, MON, I'm almost afraid your editor will make it *too* easy to complete a Zelda 3 hack, and we'll be getting half-assed Zelda 3 hacks chugged out every month or so. I guess that's better than none at all, as long as it also means some quality hacks will finally be released. Perhaps the difficulty in hacking Zelda 3 isn't so much in the limitations of HM anyway, but more in the complexity of the game itself. Hopefully we won't have another SMW-hacking type situation. |
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Deflaktor Tektite  Since: 12-10-05 From: Germany Last post: 6313 days Last view: 6278 days |
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| For now I just want a Zelda hack regardless of qualitiy
someone should make a homepage like smwcentral, just for zelda. maybe then there would be more zelda hacks (edited by Deflaktor on 10-31-06 12:48 PM) |
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Souledge Octorok Since: 10-24-06 From: Limburg, Belgium Last post: 6382 days Last view: 6382 days |
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| Perhaps, but zelda3 hacking requires a lot more time, effort, a good storymaking mind and insight into logic dungeoncreation. It's for that reason there are so little hacks for the game IMO
*Edit On topic of the roomheader issue. Since there is no easy way to expand it, does this mean I'll have to start over? (see post: http://board.acmlm.org/thread.php?id=8887 for the roomheader issue I'm experiencing at the moment). Also, should I wait on your editor, MathOnNapkins, or should I restart with Hyrule Magic? In other words, can you predict the time it will take to finish it or is it still way to early to say, in which case I'll rebuild with HM? (edited by Souledge on 10-31-06 02:03 PM) |
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richyawyingtmv Bouncy Since: 11-18-05 From: England Last post: 6279 days Last view: 6277 days |
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| Just wondering, MathOnNapkins, I remember a conversation we had before about the music editor in your in-development Z3 editing package. Hows that coming along?
It's probably the feature I'm looking forward to most right now, seeing as I felt the same about the HM music editor before release (and have grown to become annoyed with its limitations). |
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MathOnNapkins 1100 In SPC700 HELL Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6277 days Last view: 6277 days |
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Originally posted by Souledge Starting over is probably a bad idea. Just wait, I should have this tool ready for working on headers in a day or two. I use whatever free time I have to work on it, and I work full time almost 60 hours a week. It's not like being in college and having lots of free time. It could also take longer. I don't know. I often try to plan everything out before I code it, and I get side tracked in documenting other parts of the Zelda 3 rom that are not relevant to what I'm doing at the moment. In the end it will be a good product you'll just have to be patient. Originally posted by richyawyingtmv the feature doesn't exist yet. However, the hope is to expand music data as well, just as I have done with dungeon data. I'll be the first to admit that I don't know enough yet to produce a music editor. I understand SPC code and I have most of the Zelda 3 music engine documente, but I do not have any conception of how I would write the editor just yet. E.g. Hyrule Magic allows you to preview your edited music in the editor itself, I have no idea how to do that just yet. Also, I'm not very clear on the fundamentals of digital music, like what exactly the samples mean in real time, etc. |
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Moppy Red Goomba Since: 09-26-06 From: Rochester, NY Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6280 days |
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| I have most of that music type stuff done-ish in my SOM Editor. Though the format is different, the concept is similar. I could help you out if you need. =p | |||
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MathOnNapkins 1100 In SPC700 HELL Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6277 days Last view: 6277 days |
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| Small preview to see that you will have as much header room as you like in the near future. |
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Reshaper256 190 Since: 11-17-05 From: United States Last post: 6320 days Last view: 6277 days |
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| MON, I can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to this editor.
On that note, I'll mention that I've created an ASM patch that allows you to individually define which three sprite palettes are loaded to each dungeon room. It effectively separates them from the normal "palette" value used to determine the rest of the room's palettes. I think you might want to include this option in your editor, so I can show you what I did, if you'd like to see. |
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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - ROM Hacking - Zelda 3 ASM hacks |
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