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Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Prejudice against the Obese New poll | | Thread closed
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Tarale

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Since: 11-17-05
From: Adelaide, Australia

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Posted on 09-18-06 09:28 PM Link
Originally posted by windwaker
Originally posted by Xkeeper
Originally posted by Tarale
Just a note -- if you suddenly drop the amount of calories you eat, the human body thinks you are starving yourself -- or in a famine -- and takes action. It holds on to bodyfat and stores more in case the famine goes on for a while, or happens again.

This explains an awful lot of one o fthe reasons behind my latest seeming inability to function properly.

(namely, my diet went from "somewhat regular ramen noodles and sandwiches three meals a day" to "almost nothing but occasionally leftovers or the strawberry college smoothie")

Stick it out, I say. I eat one meal a day, plus maybe a spoonful of peanut butter after I wake up (I drink a lot of coffee and it cuts down on my appetite). I can't even eat three meals a day without feeling absolutely full.


Yeah, but your body's used to that. Other people's aren't, and suddenly changing does more harm than good.

To change your calorie intake effectively without having your body freak out on you, you need to do it fairly gradually.

So, that's why I mentioned substitution -- look at your diet, and look how much junk and processed stuff you eat -- and substitute that crap for good stuff. You'll probably drop the amount of calories you eat in doing so, but not so much it'll freak out your body, and not so badly you'll feel hungry -- and you give your body lots of vitamins and minerals and stuff that it wants too.
Sparx

Waddle Doo








Since: 11-18-05
From: San Diego

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Posted on 09-18-06 10:53 PM Link
Yeah, I've been losing weight, but it's weird. During the summer, I put on weight, then I feel like I do on the weekends, but during school, people seem to tell me I've been losing weight and that I've lost a lot of weight, and I don't get it. Maybe it has to do with my eating patterns... Come school, I only eat about 1 and 1/2 meals a day + 1 or 2 snacks, but I'm nothing like that in the summer or weekends. It just seems weird to me...
Cruel Justice
I have better things to do.


 





Since: 11-18-05
From: At my house!

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Posted on 09-19-06 10:52 AM Link
As if getting alot of sales on snackfoods wasn't good enough, they jack up prices with a lame excuse, "Oh the kids are too fat! We may be in danger! BAM! Taxes!". I don't know too much about Australia but, remember taxation without representation? Way back in the 1700's when americans were taxed for stamps and sugar, holy crap! It's come back to bite the nation in the ass! :O
||bass
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Since: 11-17-05
From: Salem, Connecticut

Last post: 6280 days
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Posted on 09-19-06 11:17 PM Link
Originally posted by [GGS
Cruel Justice]As if getting alot of sales on snackfoods wasn't good enough, they jack up prices with a lame excuse, "Oh the kids are too fat! We may be in danger! BAM! Taxes!". I don't know too much about Australia but, remember taxation without representation? Way back in the 1700's when americans were taxed for stamps and sugar, holy crap! It's come back to bite the nation in the ass! :O
How is taxing the sale of junk food supposed to be taxation without representation?
Shadic

The Adventure of Link
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Since: 11-18-05
From: Olympia, Washington

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Posted on 09-19-06 11:50 PM Link
Metabolism is also affected by exercise, is it not? In all honesty, the best way to lose weight is to go on a walk, a jog, or take up a recreational sport. Even something slow paced, such as Golf, will have you moving. Better than sitting on the couch.

Myself, I play Tennis. I eat ungodly amounts of food, and I'm 5'10" 130 pounds, maybe. It's all muscle and bone though, as I am vainy as hell.
Gavin

Cheep-cheep
Vandalism is not tolerated


 





Since: 11-17-05
From: IL, USA

Last post: 6356 days
Last view: 6299 days
Posted on 09-19-06 11:57 PM Link
Originally posted by Tarale
Originally posted by Gavin
2) Balancing your intake of foods with the needs of your body is not "Starving yourself"
3) What you have described as "starving yourself" is not "for no good reason". I can't think of a better reason than maintaing the fidelity of ones person.


Just a note -- if you suddenly drop the amount of calories you eat, the human body thinks you are starving yourself -- or in a famine -- and takes action. It holds on to bodyfat and stores more in case the famine goes on for a while, or happens again.

So if you're starving yourself as a way of trying to lose weight, the body has a defense mechanism to render that pretty useless -- you can wind up putting on MORE weight... and make yourself dizzy and cranky.

May as well be doing it for "no reason".

Better to try to substitute what you are already eating for different things. Subtitute white bread for grainy bread. Substitute a big steak for a little one with more veg.

People should look to exercise instead -- an adult (overweight or not) needs 30 minutes of exercise a day.

But yes, the idea that overweight people should be "starving themselves" really irks me. It's wrong -- it doesn't work -- and it causes MORE problems. Course, it's the first thing that they go and do, and then everyone encourages them...


That might have been true... if it was what I had actually stated. But it wasn't. Here's an example of the difference:

Originally posted by I said you should be:
Balancing your intake of foods with the needs of your body

and
Originally posted by you said:
suddenly drop the amount of calories you eat


These are two completely different things. Please don't put words in my mouth. One of them is a healthy approach (and forgive me, but I forgot to append "as well as healthy physical activity" to the equation), and the other is a pretty foolish and drastic measure that I am sure has many health risks of it's own, even if their short-term adverse effects are outwayed by the long-term positive effect of being not obese.


The key to everything in life is moderation. Remember that, kids.
Rom Manic









Since: 12-18-05
From: Detroit, WHAT?!

Last post: 6279 days
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Posted on 09-20-06 12:01 AM Link
Some people are gifted with having a high metabolism. Others just don't have the luck, and think it's their genes and there's not much they can do about it.

They excercise, then plop in front of the TV to relax.

BZZT! Wrong answer, chubbo's! You have to keep your mind stimulated. Working out and eating less does help, but it does nothing of much significance. A couple of things I can think of off hand is finding a hobby, or writing/reading something, or even spending alot of time on the computer or telephone. At least your mind is doing something to keep it active, and that will keep your metabolism levels stimulated, thus burning more fat to get the results you want.

It's not that there's nothing they can do. It's that they haven't thought of it, or are too lazy to begin with. So really, there's nothing to be prejudiced against. Just a narrow minded view of what people expect, even though in reality they don't give a shit in the first place.
Gavin

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Vandalism is not tolerated


 





Since: 11-17-05
From: IL, USA

Last post: 6356 days
Last view: 6299 days
Posted on 09-20-06 12:05 AM Link
Originally posted by Rom Manic
Some people are gifted with having a high metabolism. Others just don't have the luck, and think it's their genes and there's not much they can do about it.

They excercise, then plop in front of the TV to relax.

BZZT! Wrong answer, chubbo's! You have to keep your mind stimulated. Working out and eating less does help, but it does nothing of much significance. A couple of things I can think of off hand is finding a hobby, or writing/reading something, or even spending alot of time on the computer or telephone. At least your mind is doing something to keep it active, and that will keep your metabolism levels stimulated, thus burning more fat to get the results you want.

It's not that there's nothing they can do. It's that they haven't thought of it, or are too lazy to begin with. So really, there's nothing to be prejudiced against. Just a narrow minded view of what people expect, even though in reality they don't give a shit in the first place.


Care to cite any of that information?
Rom Manic









Since: 12-18-05
From: Detroit, WHAT?!

Last post: 6279 days
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Posted on 09-20-06 12:10 AM Link
My friend is living proof. He was very chubby, because he ate junk food all the time as a kid. Almost got diabetes, but the doctor suggested a diet change, and so he just ate healthy foods all the time. Chicken, pork, some ham, steaks...Lots of salads and eggs and milk.

But he wanted to lose the weight he had gained so he began excercising, and that went well but he wasn't becoming MUCH thinner. As a joke, I told him to get a hobby, and he eventually took up warhammer 40k and reading sci fi books. And it made him more active, intelligent, and more slim.

I'm telling you, a healthy mind and healthy body are one in the same. You cannot have one without the other.

EDIT: After reading my earlier, post, I might have been belligerent with what I said, but it was a joke. So...Sorry...

(edited by Rom Manic on 09-19-06 11:12 PM)
Gavin

Cheep-cheep
Vandalism is not tolerated


 





Since: 11-17-05
From: IL, USA

Last post: 6356 days
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Posted on 09-20-06 12:27 AM Link
Originally posted by Rom Manic
I'm telling you, a healthy mind and healthy body are one in the same. You cannot have one without the other.


To be honest, I disagree that you can't have one without the other. However I think you are completely correct to assert the importance of both disciplines.
Deleted User
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Since: 05-08-06

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Posted on 09-28-06 08:24 PM Link
There is nothing wrong with prejudice towards the obese, as long as they are obese because of their own glotonery, and not because of disease.
skrenename1337

Hammer


 





Since: 11-20-06

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Posted on 12-01-06 01:35 PM Link
Obesity is one's own fault.

Yes, there are certain people. With certain somatotypes.
But the fact of the matter is, eating a certain way and exercising
a certain amount can rid your body of excess fat.

I do agree with the idea that prejudice against these people is wrong. Unfair judgement of someone being slothlike just because they are large is a problem, but it IS their own fault. <3
Metal Man88

Gold axe
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Since: 11-17-05

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Posted on 12-01-06 09:37 PM Link
That said, I'm really sick of the advertisements attacking people with weight problems. My metabolism makes me skinny like Waluigi, and the TV yells, "Lose 30 pounds NOW!!!"

...I can't even gain that much; no amount of ice cream can do it either.

I believe prejudice of all kinds is wrong; one must judge the current state, not assume a judgement based on their own biases and not reality.
Xkeeper
Took the board down in a blaze of glory, only to reveal how truly moronical ||bass is.


 





Since: 11-17-05
From: Henderson, Nevada

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Posted on 12-02-06 12:56 PM Link
Originally posted by Rom Manic
... chubbo's! ...

Slinging insults at overweight people shows how insecure you are in your own self. I advise not doing it. See why after this post.

Obesity is one's own fault.

Yes, there are certain people. With certain somatotypes.
But the fact of the matter is, eating a certain way and exercising
a certain amount can rid your body of excess fat.

I do agree with the idea that prejudice against these people is wrong. Unfair judgement of someone being slothlike just because they are large is a problem, but it IS their own fault. <3
It depends. While I agree that it is partially their own fault, there are other factors to add in as well, especially environment.

Especially considering that, these days:
- Junk/take out food is extremely common, caused mostly by parents working more and not having enough time to come home and cook real meals
- Overadvertising of junk
- Rareness of non-junk in vending machines. Remember, vending machines are supposed to be conviniently placed and readily accesible, and most of all make money. Diet soda/snacks isn't/aren't profitable because most people are too attached to their current one, and many times running out and getting a diet soda/snack isn't an option
- Parental influences
- Constant personal attacks at school or other places, leading to low self-esteem which can lead to binge-eating or worse, eating disorders

While, again, I agree that it can be mostly the individual's fault, there are many other circumstances that can be behind one's weight -- and anyone who downright insults these people should seriously reconsider what they're doing, as they could very easy have damnable traits behind them as well. Nobody's perfect.

Not to mention, a lot of these people could probably easily turn around if given a little help/motivation...

(edited by Xkeeper on 12-02-06 12:01 PM)
Tarale

2710
Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!!
Persona non grata


 





Since: 11-17-05
From: Adelaide, Australia

Last post: 6279 days
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Posted on 12-03-06 09:10 PM Link
Originally posted by Gavin
These are two completely different things. Please don't put words in my mouth..


The reason I said what I said, btw, was the "Starving yourself" and "no reason" comment. I don't think the words "starving yourself" should be used at all with regards to diet, that's all. Wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, just see lots of problems with the "starving yourself" thing, and don't want people to get funny ideas based on the idea of starving oneself.

There are bunches of healthy *filling* things you can eat too anyway. No need for anyone to "starve" at all.

Just thought I'd address that seeing as how I only just noticed it and wasn't trying to have a go, just clear up any confusion surrounding the word "starve".

(edited by Tarale on 12-03-06 08:11 PM)
Gavin

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Since: 11-17-05
From: IL, USA

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Posted on 12-03-06 10:26 PM Link
Originally posted by Tarale
Originally posted by Gavin
These are two completely different things. Please don't put words in my mouth..


The reason I said what I said, btw, was the "Starving yourself" and "no reason" comment. I don't think the words "starving yourself" should be used at all with regards to diet, that's all. Wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, just see lots of problems with the "starving yourself" thing, and don't want people to get funny ideas based on the idea of starving oneself.

There are bunches of healthy *filling* things you can eat too anyway. No need for anyone to "starve" at all.

Just thought I'd address that seeing as how I only just noticed it and wasn't trying to have a go, just clear up any confusion surrounding the word "starve".


Point well taken, and I over-reacted anyway. Wasn't trying to come off like a prick.
Tarale

2710
Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!!
Persona non grata


 





Since: 11-17-05
From: Adelaide, Australia

Last post: 6279 days
Last view: 6279 days
Posted on 12-04-06 02:32 AM Link
Originally posted by Gavin
Originally posted by Tarale
Originally posted by Gavin
These are two completely different things. Please don't put words in my mouth..


The reason I said what I said, btw, was the "Starving yourself" and "no reason" comment. I don't think the words "starving yourself" should be used at all with regards to diet, that's all. Wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, just see lots of problems with the "starving yourself" thing, and don't want people to get funny ideas based on the idea of starving oneself.

There are bunches of healthy *filling* things you can eat too anyway. No need for anyone to "starve" at all.

Just thought I'd address that seeing as how I only just noticed it and wasn't trying to have a go, just clear up any confusion surrounding the word "starve".


Point well taken, and I over-reacted anyway. Wasn't trying to come off like a prick.


Ah, it's okay. Especially as I don't think I even noticed it till today

Oh, and I found a really good thing that everyone who wants to lose weight should do -- particularly if running or walking is rough on your knees. Go swimming! It's awesome!

But yes, the whole obesity stuff's come up in the news here (again) recently, with the government being called upon to do something. John Howard has called upon parents to teach their kids self-control, discipline and willpower, but I do wonder if its that "simple" for a lot of people.

For some people it's not an easy change.

When you go to the supermarket, there are lots if inexpensive, easy or quick things that aren't real good for you. If you can't cook, or you're busy, or you've not got much money, it's easy to pick up a jar or a packet of something. "Just add rice!" or "Just add chicken!" It's fast, it's easy, you don't need to know how to cook.

It's also complete crap, and full of fat and salt and sugar and god-knows what.

And a lot of people are so busy they don't have time to really cook Some people don't know how to cook a good, healthy meal either.

Course, I'm not saying that some of these kinds of things shouldn't exist... but I think people rely on them too much and I wonder how much it contributes
Sinfjotle
Lordly? No, not quite.








Since: 11-17-05
From: Kansas

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Posted on 12-05-06 01:54 PM Link
No one is so busy they don't have time to cook. If they are, chances are they're working their asses off and are losing the weight they'd gain from eating bad food.

Lazy people are the ones that are getting over-weight. Hell, I'm going to dedicate myself to losing 20 pounds worth of fat (I'll gain muscle cause lucky genetics, yay!) in 2 months. starting today. By January, I'll be going to school, working, writing, and playing WoW while balancing a social life. I will have time to cook for myself and sleep. Hell, I might even find some time to read.

With 24 hours in a day, 6 taken for sleep on the busiest days, you go to work for nine hours, you go to school for four. You have five hours left to do what you want with. You can cook and work out at the same time. (Working out and then eating is probably bad for you, but still. ) You can estimate that at about an hour, leaving you four hours to do whatever the hell you want.


Being a parent totally changes the rules though.
drjayphd

Torosu
OW! BURNY!








Since: 11-18-05
From: CT

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Posted on 12-05-06 06:18 PM Link
Originally posted by Dracoon
No one is so busy they don't have time to cook. If they are, chances are they're working their asses off and are losing the weight they'd gain from eating bad food.


Uhm... technically, I'd think more than a few people are too busy working in a completely sedentary state. (I mean, that's pretty much my job.)

...six hours of sleep a day, maximum? I guess crack cocaine is part of your weight loss plan.
Xkeeper
Took the board down in a blaze of glory, only to reveal how truly moronical ||bass is.


 





Since: 11-17-05
From: Henderson, Nevada

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Posted on 12-05-06 06:21 PM Link
6 hours of sleep isn't exactly rare, at least for me It's usually my daily maximum as I can't seem to get any more sleep than that, and often get even less.

Not everyone can really have time for >6 hours, and 10 hours (like recommended) is, for all practical purposes, impossible...
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