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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Prejudice against the Obese |
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Sinfjotle Lordly? No, not quite.                    Since: 11-17-05 From: Kansas Last post: 6280 days Last view: 6279 days |
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| Will power is always an issue with everything though. You can form both a physical and mental dependency on food, drugs, and a lot of other things, but at any time you can choose to stop it. It all comes down to how much you want something. If I want to give you a dirty look because you're obese and you eat food you really don't need, I will.
If you're mildly over weight, I won't care, and niether should you. |
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Tarale    2710 Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!! Persona non grata  Since: 11-17-05 From: Adelaide, Australia Last post: 6278 days Last view: 6278 days |
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| The "willpower" thing doesn't take into account that there are things that "throw a spanner in the works" of your metabolism, so to speak.
Like Zoloft for example. It's an SSRI, it's prescribed for the treatment of Depression. Even if you continue to exercise, and eat the same as you always have, you're very likely to put on weight with it though. I know I did. Then there's the Sleep Apnea thing that was mentioned by Skreenname. If it was always as simple as just willpower and eating the right thing, then fine -- but it's not. And that's just one drug and one medical condition that contributes -- I'm sure there's plenty more. Yes, sometimes it's as simple as that somebody isn't eating properly or whatever, but what I find irritating, and really really mean is the assumption that that's always the case. I find it really rude that people assumed that I put on weight cause I was cramming my mouth full of junk, rather than the fact that it was a side effect of medication. As for the idea of calorie counting, then you need to know how much calories things like sleeping, walking, typing, talking, running, etc take, at the speeds you do them (you'd burn more calories walking 7.8km/h than at 4km/h), for your weight and height, as well as the calories in everything you eat -- I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't know shit about this.... |
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windwaker Ninji i'm not judgemental, i'm cynical Lonely People of the World, Unite! Since: 12-27-05 Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6286 days |
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| Simple answer: don't take SSRI's. Most people who take SSRI's just want to be happy and don't realize long-term that the consequences outweight the benefits (if any). Only if you're contemplating suicide should you go on SSRI's, in my opinion. | |||
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Tarale 2710 Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!! Persona non grata Since: 11-17-05 From: Adelaide, Australia Last post: 6278 days Last view: 6278 days |
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Originally posted by windwaker SSRI's don't make you happy. At all. Geez.... way to misunderstand Depression. 
SSRI's and other Antidepressants aren't "instant happy". The only thing they're good for is stabilising things so that other forms of therapy / whatever can help (ie, exercise, therapy, hypnotherapy, whatever). They are in no way "instant happy" -- you have to work at that (and even then you may not be "happy" as such), this just makes the really bad suicidal stuff not so bad so you don't kill yourself first. I once complained to my doctor when Depressed about gaining weight on the SSRI; and he didn't care -- he'd rather that I didn't kill myself and gained weight than I stayed thin but wound up dead. Which I suppose is fair; but he could have tried some other medication, I thought  Cause the weight gain was depressing too... 
Besides, SSRI's are NOT the only thing that does it! It's just the one that I have first hand experience with. I'm sure there are PLENTY of other drugs that have "weight gain" as a side effect. I think the contraceptive pill is one of them too.(edited by Tarale on 09-11-06 10:54 PM) (edited by Tarale on 09-11-06 11:07 PM) (edited by Tarale on 09-11-06 11:08 PM) |
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windwaker Ninji i'm not judgemental, i'm cynical Lonely People of the World, Unite! Since: 12-27-05 Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6286 days |
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Originally posted by TaraleOriginally posted by windwaker I know. I know my drugs just as well as you do. :rolleyes: People have misconceptions of about SSRI's, like that they'll make you happy. People in my family have a history of getting on things like zoloft because something bad happens to them and makes them sad (like my aunt when her kids went to college... rolleyes times one hundred). |
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Gavin Cheep-cheep Vandalism is not tolerated Since: 11-17-05 From: IL, USA Last post: 6355 days Last view: 6299 days |
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| On Obesity:
Patient to Doctor: "Doc, I've been doing This Thing for at least 6 years now, and it is just causing me all kinds of problems. Tell me how to fix it." Doctor to Patient: "Ah, I see. Might I make a suggestion?" Patient to Doctor: "Yeah, anything that will make this go away!" Doctor to Patient: "Stop doing That Thing. Immediatly." Let me respond to this on a completely unemotional level (to make clear, this is definetly not something I would just blurt out in a discussion with someone having these issues): Now, I understand that certain people claim to have certain genetic predispositions to obesity. Well, to put it bluntly, "tough shit." I mean wow, that really sucks, but you have to deal with it, or don't complain about it. It is the lot you were given in life, as unfair as that may be. I mean, a man with a bad heart condition has to take medication and modify or monitor his physical activity moreso than an "average guy", or he doesn't and he has a greater risk for dying. Kinda black and white. Diabetics have to monitor their food intake like crazy, it's not fair but they do it because they have to. Obese people simply need to stop eating as much as they do. As ||bass said: Originally posted by ||bass On an emotional level, I totally empathize. It must be a terrible burden on a person. *Gavin side-steps about 30 innappropriate puns regarding people carying huge weights and burdens* Of course there may very well be varying dimensions to the issue. One such facet I am willing to accept is Obesity as a sympton of some larger problem, such as depression. Willpower is all but impossible without self-esteem. I view depression as something different because I can understand how practically impossible it is to suddenly modify your own mental schema, the structure of thought patterns that has been building your entire life, to suddenly will yourself happy. Especially when considering the bleak, sapping and mentally foggy nature of depression itself. I equate it to a single man trying to jump or will his way out of quicksand. Originally posted by Rydain I must admit, I can't understand or believe a single word of that article. And what people are so fucked up that they would sabotage a diet because they feel insecure about themselves and their own relationship with the dieter?? Maybe they shouldn't be dieting, but moving away from their family and ditching their "friends" for people who actually care about them  ?
I've never heard of people actually having this happen, and I will hope it was something made up to toss out another article. But in any event, unless you have other underlying issues, you simply don't eat the food. It looks savory and succulent, sure. But you say, "wait, I'm obese. I can't eat this". And that is that. If you can't, then you will never lose weight. |
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Tarale 2710 Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!! Persona non grata Since: 11-17-05 From: Adelaide, Australia Last post: 6278 days Last view: 6278 days |
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| Ah. Well, I dunno your Aunt's situation so I can't really comment. I just though you were oversimplifying it all for a second there, and sorry, but that kinda irks me.
I'm trying to think what else causes weight gain. A quick search shows SSRI and tricyclic antidepressants, contraceptives, some anticoagulants, some antihistamines as all things with side effects of weight gain. Antidepressants well and truly having the most results though
Medical reasons can include hypothyroidism, endocrine disorders (ie, Cushing's syndrome or polycystic ovary syndrome) as mentioned, sleeping problems like sleep apnea, menopause, and genetic factors... But wow, I didn't realise quite how notorious the antidepressants were for this! |
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Sinfjotle Lordly? No, not quite. Since: 11-17-05 From: Kansas Last post: 6280 days Last view: 6279 days |
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| Just because you have a slow matabolism doesn't mean you have to gain weight. Pleanty of people have slow metabolisms and are thin. It's all just finding the proper diet and activty for you.
You're at a disadvantage because you have to put in more effort, but it isn't like you have no possible way to keep the weight off. Also, counting calories is extremely easy. You don't need to know the specifics of how much calories walking burns, you just have to have a general idea. To figure it out, you find out your body weight, hieght, activity level, and you can get a general idea of how many calories you need to supply you with energy. Go for less than that and you'll start burning fat. |
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emcee Red Super Koopa Since: 11-20-05 Last post: 6279 days Last view: 6278 days |
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| I can't see why anyone would give someone a dirty look for buying chocolate reguardless of their weight. What ever happened to minding your own business? | |||
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Tarale 2710 Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!! Persona non grata Since: 11-17-05 From: Adelaide, Australia Last post: 6278 days Last view: 6278 days |
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| Minding your own business? Now that's a quaint idea.
Some people do manage to mind their own business, but there are certainly others out there that give you these funny looks like they're having trouble stopping themselves from telling you just what they think.... ... and others again that just tell others what they think  |
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Xkeeper Took the board down in a blaze of glory, only to reveal how truly moronical ||bass is. Since: 11-17-05 From: Henderson, Nevada Last post: 6279 days Last view: 6279 days |
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Originally posted by Gavin The only problem with this is that generally, being overweight tends to draw a lot of harsh attention towards the person. This, in turn, works to demolish any self-esteem, which then further ruins any sort of chance of gathering the willpower to lose weight. The amount of sheer pressure put on teenagers (which I consider most at-risk for obesity, speficially for reasons above) is incredible -- as soon as it's even partially noticable, it's extremely easy to get buried under all kinds of insults or harsh/demeaning words... which can (and usually, will) lead to some form of depression, which just starts back at the top with the loss of self-esteem and willpower. And while I'm sure most of you will simply think "oh, you can just ignore that kind of thing," allow me ot say that it's remarkably hard, if not impossible. I speak from experience. Well, he could just mash the A button... (I just had to get off of that serious note) (edited by * on 09-12-06 04:44 PM) |
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windwaker Ninji i'm not judgemental, i'm cynical Lonely People of the World, Unite! Since: 12-27-05 Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6286 days |
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Originally posted by Tarale This doesn't have to just do with someone I know. However, have you even SEEN the Zoloft commercial? With the little blob who's sad and takes Zoloft and is happy again? That's what the world's view of anti-depressants has seemingly become. Taking large amounts of SSRI's can be more dangerous that some levels of depression. One of my friends was given such a high dosage, every day, that he was what doctors would consider "overdosing" on an SSRI, DAILY. He couldn't even ride the bus, because he thought that the people behind him would kill him if he turned is back to them; that's how paranoid he had become. People need to reevaluate their life and find out what is causing the depression. If it's genetic, or a true chemical imbalance, or you're self-mutilating, go right ahead; otherwise, I'd say that you'd be an idiot to go on SSRI's because you got a divorce/your kids left for college/veronica mars got cancelled. There are a lot of people who fall into the latter category, in my experience. edit: yes this is not the ANTI ANTI DEPRESSANTS THRED but I thought I might as well, as it's something that largely causes a lot of weight gain. (edited by windwaker on 09-12-06 11:27 PM) |
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Apophis Ropa  Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6279 days Last view: 6278 days |
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Originally posted by Tarale Bullshit. I've been on it for years. Still 117lbs. |
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MathOnNapkins 1100  In SPC700 HELL Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6279 days Last view: 6278 days |
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| Again, anecdotal evidence is not proof Apo... | |||
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windwaker Ninji i'm not judgemental, i'm cynical Lonely People of the World, Unite! Since: 12-27-05 Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6286 days |
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Originally posted by ApofisuOriginally posted by Tarale Well, it varies a lot. Appetite increases on the drug (the actual drug, Sertraline, can actually cause weight loss IIRC). |
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Tarale 2710 Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!! Persona non grata Since: 11-17-05 From: Adelaide, Australia Last post: 6278 days Last view: 6278 days |
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Originally posted by ApofisuOriginally posted by Tarale That's why I said "very likely". You can lose weight on it too; but I was never affected that way -- it affected me the other way to the tune of 30kg (66lbs). And yeah, I was exercising and stuff. This happened over three years. For some people it doesn't do a thing. And for others they lose weight. But weight gain is a much more common side effect from all the documentation I've read on the subject.
That's another fun thing about the human body... you never know which side effects you're going to get or how things are going to affect you as opposed to somebody else. |
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windwaker Ninji i'm not judgemental, i'm cynical Lonely People of the World, Unite! Since: 12-27-05 Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6286 days |
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| This is why it's usually a mistake to go on SSRI's.
Maybe that's who we descriminate against. ;D edit: IMO. (edited by windwaker on 09-13-06 11:56 PM) |
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Tarale 2710 Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!! Persona non grata Since: 11-17-05 From: Adelaide, Australia Last post: 6278 days Last view: 6278 days |
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Originally posted by windwaker Maybe you should start a thread on Anti-Depressants instead. I don't wish to repeat myself, but it's not just SSRI's that do this (Tricyclic Antidepressants have this side effect also). And it's not just Anti-Depressants that do either... I'd start a thread on it, but I can't ever get one started anyway... sort of like how I lost my train of thought starting this thread  |
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Zer0wned Koopa Since: 12-09-05 From: Torrance, ca Last post: 6436 days Last view: 6436 days |
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Originally posted by Tarale I'm trying to avoid forums in general right now, but I read this a few days ago and it's been irking me to reply to this for some reason... The usual equation is If calorie intake < calorie demand, then weightloss occurs. The only exception I've ever seen to this is water retention. Chances are her "healthy" eating choices may not be including enough fluids, so with the way the body is, deprivation followed by allowance results in storage. This could also apply to her eating timing, the optimal eating schedule is more smaller meals throughout the day (as opposed to three meals a day or whatever), and strongly avoid eating within a couple hours of sleeping, because pretty much all the carbohydrates (regardless of complexity) ingested get converted to storage (fat) form. I'm definitely not a nutritionist or a dietition, so this is all subject to correction, but I'm about 70% sure on that water retention thing using the given information. |
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Tarale 2710 Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!! Persona non grata Since: 11-17-05 From: Adelaide, Australia Last post: 6278 days Last view: 6278 days |
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| She drinks enough water a day, trust me. She eats dinner around 6pm and goes to bed at around 11, so that's not close to bed time either.
Trust me, she's doing all the things that I did that got me to lose weight, but it doesn't work for her and it worked like a treat for me. It's like my excess weight was just visiting on a holiday, but hers has settled in to stay. (edited by Tarale on 09-14-06 10:03 AM) |
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