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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Do you believe that science goes against religion? |
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep                   Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6310 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Bookworm: you've inspired me not to post around here much anymore.... at least not in the debate are.
You are terrible at debating. You're getting destroyed. You have no direction and you let yourself get distracted. And this thread is really confusing. |
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Clockworkz Birdon  Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Evidence; Oh my Gods...
HIV is a very complex virus. It must have taken millions, even billions of years to evolve to what it is today. Since one celled organisms were around, viruses existed. To complicate itself to what it is today must have taken a very looooong time, especially considering that, in the grand scheme of things, its rather young. I'm not sure of the exact date, but it seemed to come around about 100 years ago? Around there? ZIff, correct me if I'm wrong. Leviticus was written about 1700 years ago. As fore MY evidence? I'm assuming you mean the extiction stuff. Umm.. I dunno. Maybe the Museum of Natural History. Yeah. That wasn't too hard. You are quite possibly the worst debater I've ever seen. You lose. You lose on fire. |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Probably closer to 2700 than 1700, given that it is a really old Jewish book. No one really knows, but it would have to date before 1 BC. | |||
Arwon Bazu Since: 11-18-05 From: Randwick, Sydney, NSW, Australia Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6296 days |
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| I'm still curious as to what explaination Bookworm and Phantomrain have as to why outside of America, practically everyone accepts evolution and an old earth and doesn't buy into their brand of mumbo jumbo.
Why is it only some American christians who still cling to young earth creationism or some variation on the theme, and basically no-one else? (edited by Arwon on 12-13-05 09:45 AM) |
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6310 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| wow, that's a huge generalization to make
maybe you forgot, but the majority of Jews and Muslims live outside of "America" and probably still believe that and not all Christians believe in a young earth.... quite a few are starting to accept the fact that the 7 day creation may not have been a literal 7 days like we know it |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| I think he is speaking about the majority Christian first-world nations comparable to America. | |||
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6310 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| still.... even in America I don't think the majority are stuck on that idea
I'm christian and I don't believe that the earth is 6000 years and 7 days old.... I realize that the idea of a young earth doesn't make sense.... unless you want to argue that God made it "seem" old even though it wasn't... which is a really bad attempt to adhere to the bible and really.... why would God who is eternal and exists outside of time build a planet (or universe) based on our observation of time? it makes no sense! |
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Salmon Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-18-05 From: Norway Last post: 6311 days Last view: 6301 days |
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| According to Wikipedia, 72% of Americans believe in some form of creationism, while the number of creationist believers in the rest of the western world is at <5%.
Of course, the complete validity of the 72%-claim can be disputed, since the scientists took one polled question and base their assumptions on the belief of those who answered the poll on that (yeah, so I'm having a social scientific method exam on Friday, so I'm pretty much trying to focus all my thoughts on such things as validity of polls...). Still, the vast difference between the two numbers show that creationist beliefs are a lot more prevalent in America. This was also my experience when I was 'cross the pond a couple of years ago. I met a whole lot of people believeing in creationism, something I had never experienced before in Europe. As for me? I don't see the problem with mixing science and faith. Science is about knowledge, religion is about belief. The two are not mutually exclusive. Besides, the two are concenrned with two different areas of life, the natural and the spiritual. As one man whose name I do not remember once said: "Everytime we discover something new, I feel good knowing that now we know something that only God knew before us". |
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6310 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| I find that number hard to believe.... less than 5% in the rest of the world?
correct me if I'm wrong but don't both Islam and Judaism believe in a creation by God/Allah? Combined those religions make up more than 5% of the rest of the world. Not a majority, but more than 5% for sure. |
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Arwon Bazu Since: 11-18-05 From: Randwick, Sydney, NSW, Australia Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6296 days |
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| They're probably, for various reasons, far less likely to take it literally. I should think. | |||
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6310 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| creationism or young earth?
cause there is a difference.... |
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Arwon Bazu Since: 11-18-05 From: Randwick, Sydney, NSW, Australia Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6296 days |
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| Either way.
I'm not aware of a particularly strong anti-science streak in Judaism, and Islam probably has very different attitudes to science as well, given that the rise of Islam coincided with a scientific golden age. But even limiting it to Christian countries, why is it only in America where this sort of dogged literalism holds any sway? (edited by Arwon on 12-13-05 10:34 PM) |
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Silvershield   580  Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by ArwonI don't know, but I'm sure you or someone else will embrace the opportunity to criticize Christianity and America at the same time! |
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Salmon Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-18-05 From: Norway Last post: 6311 days Last view: 6301 days |
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Originally posted by The SomerZ Emphazised for clarity. |
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6310 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| hooray for again portraying my lack of reading carefully | |||
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Arwon Bazu Since: 11-18-05 From: Randwick, Sydney, NSW, Australia Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6296 days |
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Originally posted by SilvershieldOriginally posted by ArwonI don't know, but I'm sure you or someone else will embrace the opportunity to criticize Christianity and America at the same time! Right, because I hate America and all that. You got me, well played old bean. Wait no, that's horse shit. |
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SMW_champion Goomba Since: 12-09-05 Last post: 6699 days Last view: 6699 days |
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| I believe that people have the right to believe what they want as long as they do not bother people with their beliefs. I personally do not care for anything that is written by man such as book, scriptures, etc. Someone else's word is no better than mine. Anyways, that's what I think. Science is interesting but could very well be someone's interpretation just like religion could be. So for me to be religious or scientific I have to see the results myself not simply take someone's word for it. That's how I think.
Besides, the champ has his own religion... Super Mario World and his own science... studying Super Mario World. 
(edited by SMW_champion on 12-16-05 12:16 PM) |
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spel werdz rite Since: 11-19-05 Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by a very famous comedian whos name escapes me at the momentBut seriously, Christianity roots from the Aristotolean World View. Its belief is that the Universe is compiled of Ten Spheres, the Earth, the Moon, Heaven, the Sun, The four known planets, and two sets of stars. Each, except the Earth, was created with a "fifth element of perfection" which allowed them to be perfect in compostition. The earth was created with four "imperfect" elements, the two light elements (fire and air) and the two heavy elements (water and earth). During the Enlightenment, Galileo had discovered that the Moon was actually imperfect and rather craterous. The World View was eventually widdled down into Christianity as scientific proof made discoveries going against religous ideas. The idea of religion was just a theory that could help explain the main questions of life and existance, they themselves have no real proof. The idea of Hell was also another tool to convince people that something bad would happen for sinning. I believe we all are mature enough to know right from wrong. Religion is just a way to give people hope for what happens after death. Look at any religion, it's main topics are life, pre-life, post life, how we got here, why we are here, and who put us here. Science has given us better reasoning. It's not that I'm atheist, I'm pretty sure it's just my whole "I have the whole world figured out" phase that most teens go through. But for now, I will say I'm atheist. |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| That fifth element is called "The Essense".
Young one, take into account the various Christian views. Namely Bonaventurian, which is decidedly anti-Aristotlean. Sure, Aquinas and such may have enjoyed The Philosopher, but many Franciscans were deeply concerned due to the increase in agreement with the agent intellect and the concept of spherical intellect of The Commentator. 
Sorry if I confuse, but I'm a Mediaevalist. I have to use those words |
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spel werdz rite Since: 11-19-05 Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by ZiffAh, that's it! I enjoy the Ren as much as any other Euro Geek, but I'm more of an Enlightenment man. Anyways, I just wanted to add that if there were a "correct" religion, we'll call them Mormans just to parody South Park, why do so many still exist? What did the Mormans do to be correct that the others didn't? I hate to say it, but religion is on the run and science has the weapon. View: A man breaks his leg and may never walk. Religion:splash some holy water on it, if he's one with god, it will cure. Otherwise, he will be punished. Science:A cast will have that healed in about six weeks. You've been accused of commiting a crime Religion: WITCH! WITCH! we'll throw her off a cliff. If she lives, she's a witch and we must kill her. If she dies, well than she was innocent... Science: Discoveries in a blood DNA sample next to the victims bone doesn't match you're DNA, you're innocent, and we didn't have to kill you! Science isn't going against religion, it's going with factuallity. |
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