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| 0 users currently in World Affairs/Debate. |
| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Discrimination relating to your computer. Formerly just, "Macs suck ass". |
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Vyper Kodondo Raging Venom                   Since: 11-18-05 From: Final Fantasy Fire Last post: 6313 days Last view: 6313 days |
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Originally posted by Raccoon SamLMFAO YOU GOT SIG'D! |
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Jomb Deddorokku   Since: 12-03-05 From: purgatory Last post: 6298 days Last view: 6298 days |
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| It's been a good 5 years since i've used an Apple computer, but back then I had a class in the Mac lab at my school. Those computers in there were constantly crashing, practically every day at least one would crash, usually in the middle of something important. This was far more often than the Windows computers crashed. I cant remember a single time that I had a Unix computer crash on me, but that operating system was not very user friendly. Anyway though, I dont know anything about the very latest Mac OS, but I dont buy Apple computers due to bad memories of the past ones, and the fact that just about every program I'd want to use is unavailable on that OS. | |||
Tarale    2710 Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!! Persona non grata  Since: 11-17-05 From: Adelaide, Australia Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by Jomb A lot has changed since then though. OS 8 and OS 9 were known for this; and early OS X was a little neurotic itself; but a vast improvement over the Classic Mac OS. It seems that now a lot of the general bias about Apple computers seems to come from either inaccurate information or very, very out-of-date information. Mac OS X is based on the Mach microkernel and the BSD implementation of Unix. It is very stable, on both PowerPC and Intel. Because it is essentially a variant of Unix, there are a lot of open-source projects that have OS X versions, or can be used via Fink or DarwinPorts. If there is Windows software you can't run natively in OS X, you may be able to run it via the virtualisation program Parallels. If it's a game or graphics intensive though, it's best to use Boot Camp to dual-boot the machine with Windows, which runs very nicely on the Intel based Macintoshes 
I'm not denying that the old OS 8, OS 9 and early OS X days sucked -- they did, and even a lot of Macintosh users will refer to them as the "dark days". But a lot has changed since then. I have no real problem with people who dislike Macintoshes -- but I do get annoyed when they dislike them because of out-of-date information, rumours or other misconceptions. Course, it seems to me that a lot of people who bash Macintoshes haven't used one recently... |
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Jomb Deddorokku Since: 12-03-05 From: purgatory Last post: 6298 days Last view: 6298 days |
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It is true, I have'nt used a Mac in at least 5 years. If i ever get an opportunity to use one again I'll give it another shot. But I'm not going to buy one as my next PC unless i get to try it first!  |
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spiroth10 Paratroopa Since: 01-28-06 From: USA Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| please take note that I am most definitely an elitest in favor of linux.
personally in my opinion: linux>bsd(better for those who favor stability to power)>mac>other>DOS>windows Im only using windows XP now because this is my new gaming PC (there are very few games that run on linux 100% fullspeed... oblivion for example) My main Dev Box has slackware 10.2 on it -- and I find that (even though it has 1Ghz[intel] power and 256mb RAM w/ integrated intel graphics/sound) it can sometimes run much more cleanly than my XP machine here with an AMD 3800+, 1024mb RAM, NVidia 7900GT OC (256mb RAM) (still integrated sound until next summer -- then Im finally buying Cable broadband (No more DIalup!!!), a sound card, and probably a dual-core AMD processor (maybe 3.2Ghz each...). I also want surround sound speakers, and more ram (at least 1GB, but probably 2 2gbs instead) though thats a bit pricey. point is -- they're teh idiots who are like "OmGdZorZZZ WinDOZe VIsta is TeH 3dness OMIGODZ" even though you'll need at least 512mb ram for the operating system. thats TOO MUCH for an OS. Hell, I dont like the way that XP Media center takes up about 200-300+ ram (even though I have a gig +256 megs devoted to graphics), a good OS should take no more than 50mb. 90 megs tops. (Media Center can get close to 100 at startup if you disable EVERYTHING [including sound output]) not to mention that the fact that windows runs code that you may/may not have specific control of is one of the many reasons why viruses/spyware can run on it in the first place. heck, the first time I surfed teh web on this, I got about 50+ trojans, 10+worms, and a bunch of viruses. I wish mac would come out with a system on an AMD processor -- if they got AMD to make a power mac (quad-core processor), I would go to heavan to have my ultimate linux/windows(games only)/mac box. |
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Tarale 2710 Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!! Persona non grata Since: 11-17-05 From: Adelaide, Australia Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Your post reminded me of something. Your concept that one OS is superior to another.. and that one to another, etc.
I don't believe that any one OS is "superior" in a general, overall sense. I don't give a crap about all these OS Holy Wars that go on all over the internet. It's amazing how much somebody can ignore all the flaws of one particular OS simply because that's the one they prefer. What I believe is something else -- I believe that there are some OS's that are better suited to particular tasks / roles. I believe that all the OS's have something to offer, something that they do exceptionally well, and that they all have things they don't do so well. My current home environment is a mixture of Linux, Windows and Mac OS. Different machines in this environment are used for different things. My Linux box does a marvellous job of doing what I need it to do. It's a gateway, a proxy, a firewall, a webserver and it allows me to VPN into my network. Linux is excellent in these kinds or roles. It's also excellent if you like to "tinker" with your system, configure everything to the nth degree, etc. My Windows box does what I need it to do, mostly games and digital TV lately (it's attached to a 20" Cinema Display... it's nice to sit in bed and watch tv on it). It's not my favourite OS, but I have some need/use for it. My G4 iBook running OS X 10.4 does a wonderful job of doing what I want it to do. Which is more or less just not get in my way. In my opinion, it also has the best User Interface of all that I've tried. When I want to do something, the computer doesn't get in my way.
I think that every OS has something to offer. And I think that each OS can learn from the others... |
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||bass Administrator  Since: 11-17-05 From: Salem, Connecticut Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by Raccoon SamTo be totally honest, I think the computer in the photo is ugly as sin. It also looks like a cramped pain in the ass to service/upgrade. There are nicer looking PC's out there -> 1 2 3 4 that are large and spacious enough to be serviced. PS: How does one add an Audigy 4 DTX digital 7.1 surround card to a mac? |
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Deleted User Banned    Since: 05-08-06 Last post: None Last view: 6296 days |
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No offense, but.. those are pretty fucking ugly, too. Something like this, however..
Originally posted by Raccoon SamNo. He didn't. |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Macs usually have a nice aesthetic appearance. Unlike the piece of plastic cheese and 23-year-old-in-their-parents-basement-full-of-testosterone thing that bass posted. It really is quite heinous. The simple appearance of the iBookG4 is nice enough for me. Even the extremely compact form of the Mac Mini is pretty attractive. | |||
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Tarale 2710 Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!! Persona non grata Since: 11-17-05 From: Adelaide, Australia Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| I personally prefer the design sensitilities of the Macintoshes over the cases posted by ||bass too.
Course, I'm also of the belief that good design is about taking away things, not adding them, while retaining functionality. I adore simplicity in design. Apple make very "simple" looking designs. |
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||bass Administrator Since: 11-17-05 From: Salem, Connecticut Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by Plus Sign AbominationYou gotta be freaking kidding me. The iBookG4 looks like an old Brother word processor from the 80's (only with smaller keys) and the Mac Minis would look just like little single-slice toasters if only the cd slot were just a bit wider. Atleast Alienware laptops have some character to them. Also, unlike any Mac in the history of computing, the flashy newegg cases are (get ready for this shocker) ATX complient. God forbid we actually use standards-compliant form factor hardware! I mean, being able to swap out motherboard/power supply/peripheral cards/etc when I need to.... it's herasy! Can't have the consumer performing their own major upgrades. Not when the computer can be sent back to the manufacturer for upgrades at an extortionate fee. On that note, I've been wondering. If I got a Mac and wanted to do a serious upgrade of my video or sound card, do I just buy some propriatary card to fit into the micro-cramped casing, or do I just have to buy a whole new mac? Christ, even Lenina (my fiancée whom I live with) has a bright pink computer she built. It's not like it's particularly hard to do. (edited by ||bass on 08-17-06 02:59 AM) (edited by ||bass on 08-17-06 03:00 AM) |
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Tarale 2710 Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!! Persona non grata Since: 11-17-05 From: Adelaide, Australia Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| ||bass -- you obviously don't like Macintoshes, but that's okay, because from your argument, Apple aren't even trying to market at people like you -- you are not their target audience.
Apple aren't marketing at people who like to tinker with the internals of their systems. One of their biggest marketing things is the idea of user experience. They will often claim that their products "just work". One way they are able to provide a user experience in which things are likely to "just work" is to control the hardware. By controlling the hardware, they can ensure a certain level of stability in their Operating System. And by controlling their hardware, they can be creative in their computer design. They can build interesting machines where the screen and the computer are together in the same design (iMac) or ultra-small machines for people who might not have much space or want something very portable (Mac Mini). Of course, you can upgrade Macintoshes, with varying levels of difficulty depending on the Macintosh. A Mac Mini obviously doesn't leave a whole lot of room for you to tinker. But a Mac Pro offers a lot of opportunity for changes. Oh, and on your last comment about computers not being particularly hard to build -- I don't like your insinuation that Mac users are too stupid or lazy to build their own computers -- NOR do I like the sexist tone you've used in making that insinuation. Your comment is effectively the same as saying: "it's so easy a girl can do it". I have 6 computers at home (8 if you count ones that are under repair or on order). 4 are PC's, which I have built. The other 2 are Macintoshes, which I have either upgraded or repaired myself. Oh, and I'm a girl too. |
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||bass Administrator Since: 11-17-05 From: Salem, Connecticut Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Would you like Lenina to come online and post "it's so easy a girl could do it"? Because she just said, upon reading your post, that she'd be more than willing to do it. | |||
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| I ripped open my iBook G4 and slapped in some new laptop RAM. You can also swap in, with a tad bit of modification, a better video card.
If anything MAC modification is harder, more laborious, and more fun. I think PC modders are the lazy ones |
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||bass Administrator Since: 11-17-05 From: Salem, Connecticut Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by Plus Sign AbominationI don't think any comment other than the bolding and underlining is necissary. |
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Tarale 2710 Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!! Persona non grata Since: 11-17-05 From: Adelaide, Australia Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by ||bass If she wants to. Personally I wouldn't be backing up my partner if he were to publically insult my intelligence. Maybe I've read into your statement the sexist thing, but as you've specifically named Lenina in a "Christ, even.." style argument, maybe you were insulting only her intelligence not that of the entire female sex. Which isn't a very nice thing to do to the woman you love. You could have simply stated your dislike of Macintoshes in a way that didn't insult her, the entire female sex, and Macintosh users. Your argument should be based around the computers, not the people who use them. |
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||bass Administrator Since: 11-17-05 From: Salem, Connecticut Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Apperantly her account got wiped out last time xkeeper got triggerhappy (the wipeout) so I'm just going to post her comment and you can belive she said it if you want to, if you don't, that's fine too. Anyway: "Even a computer illiterate girl like me could do it." She openly admits she wouldn't be able to identify her graphics card if asked to point it out but also mentions "there's only one slot it could possibly fit into" when I point out which one it is. It's not a big leap of logic when there is one slot with the AGP shape and one card that fits into it. She knows very little about computers, but it doesn't matter. She put the whole thing together by herself.
Perhaps I should have mentioned that she's totally computer illiterate before making the comment, it's not an insult to anyone's intelligence. I assumed everyone would know she was computer illiterate (a seriously bad assumption considering noone had any possible way of knowing that). The intent of the statement was that someone with no computer background managed to build a working computer with only marginal effort. Anyone capible of reading one of the 9 languages a motherboard manual comes printed in can just read it and do what it says. It's not a major exercize of genius. Also, I consider "difficult to service and upgrade" to be "based around the computers" as you put it. Wouldn't you think? EDIT: Did I mention that she built a machine with an Athelon XP64 3500+, a gig of ram, geforce 6600, 200gb SATA hd, and more for under $700? I'd like to see anyone beat that price with ANY mass-manufactured computer, Mac OR PC. Dell fails just as much as Apple in this case. EDIT 2: I'm actually not anti-Mac. I'm anti-propriatary. Dell uses all kinds of special Dell-only parts. I hate those computers just as much as, if not more than, Macs. I have all sorts of nightmare stories involving Dell, Compaq, and others. I understand that not everyone has the time or skill to build their own computers. However, almost nobody can honestly tell me that they don't live near SOME kind of local no-name "Compu-Hut" type of store that will build you a dream machine for half of what Dell charges. Also remember, with those local guys, you can take your broken or outdated machine right to their front door and have back a fixed or upgraded machine the next day. No big name company can ever beat that kind of service. (edited by ||bass on 08-17-06 08:38 PM) (edited by ||bass on 08-17-06 08:38 PM) (edited by ||bass on 08-17-06 08:44 PM) |
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Tarale 2710 Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!! Persona non grata Since: 11-17-05 From: Adelaide, Australia Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Well, thanks for clarifying. Now I know what you mean instead of taking what you said at face (and rather insulting all around) value 
As for the propriatary thing, I'm kinda over it. The thing is, my Mac is a joy to work with. Even with all the customising and stuff I can do with my other computers, they really aren't as... great... to work with as the Macintosh is. In the end, I do get a better user experience from the Macintosh. I am willing to sacrifice the ability to (simply) customise it for the benefit of the user experience And on my other machines, I don't have that same user experience, but I regain the benefit of being able to more or less easily customise it.
Some mac modifications are easier than PC upgrades I've performed too, but again they're deliberately so... it's very, very easy to upgrade RAM in an iBook, and even easier still to add AirPort.
Course, one day I will casemod my iBook. It needs to be more pink. It's always needed to be more pink. Starting with that glowing apple logo. |
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||bass Administrator Since: 11-17-05 From: Salem, Connecticut Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| My biggest arguement against Macs right now is changing though. It used to be the hardware but it's becoming the software. The problem is that MacOS will only normally install on PC's with a special Intel CPU (which is actually identical to normal except with a stupid flag on it for MacOS to look for). Tiger actually runs on an AMD cpu as-is if you hack up the installer. The problem is that the OS has zero drivers for unapproved hardware. This is not a Mac specific problem though, Linux has a serious problem with drivers/kernel modules for very new hardware (which is usually nonexistant). I think Mac would serve themselves well to open up the OS to install normally on all PC hardware (something it's already technically capible of since OSX is nothing more than a very pretty shell running over FreeBSD. I wouldn't even be surprised if FreeBSD drivers/modules/whatever worked with OSX. The problem with OSX though is that if you do anything relatively low-level, you will royally fuck up your computer if you don't know what you're doing.
What is so awesome about the Mac "user experiance"? I only use a Mac very rarely, I used one today actually, the last time before that was probably atleast 2 months ago. The only thing I ever remember experiancing with a Mac is unplugging the mouse that came with the computer and replacing it with the nearest PC 2 button mouse. Those 1 button jobs drive me up a freakin wall. |
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windwaker Ninji i'm not judgemental, i'm cynical Lonely People of the World, Unite! Since: 12-27-05 Last post: 6325 days Last view: 6303 days |
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Originally posted by ||bass Depends what you have. With the iMac, no. Sexist comments kinda make your credibility moot though. |
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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Discrimination relating to your computer. Formerly just, "Macs suck ass". |
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