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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - General Gaming - whatever happened to quality RPGs? (another rant...) |
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spiroth10 Paratroopa                  Since: 01-28-06 From: USA Last post: 6335 days Last view: 6335 days |
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| I'm sick of going to EB, and seeing half-ass RPGs.
FF is even begining to get annoying. I recently got Jade Empire, and while it's a great game by todays RPG standards, it would have never held up to the standards of the rpg Golden age. Elder scrolls is, in my mind, the last quality RPG series (unless the rumors of bethesda buying Fallout are true -- then fallout wins) Game companies are now just trying to rip-off content from other games. "Hey, they're battle system is OK, lets make one similar!" do we have nobody who is creatively capable of bringing things to the next level? For awhile now, we've had the power in console gaming to make a realistic battle system where the user has more control over their character in battle, but most companies give us even less control than in older RPGS -- in FF3, you could summon, use magic, attack, steal, use an item, defend, etc. in Jade Empire, you get roughly 3 moves per style, 1 of which is always pretty much the same, and just knocks opponents back. the blocking/evasion are nice additions, but they seem to find relatively little use. Its the same for other rpgs too, however some games (like the KOTOR series) make up for it a bit by showing awesome lightsaber duels/fighting scenes, but in that game, all you needed was to use flurry over and over again to easily win any fight, minus some boss battles (Malak) where you had to run away and heal yourself a bit. It seems as if this one is an age of FPS. You can find hundreds (upon hundreds) of FPS in the bargain bins for pretty much any console. and, this is probably offensive, but if you only play FPS, I dont even consider you a gamer. your just part of a "fad". While some are good, we dont need 50000 FPS games, but the greed of the gaming industry these days could care less about creativity, and I know 100000 stupid fanboys who think "OMiGoDz0rZ Halo iz the bestest thing ever. Final Fntsy iz ***. Mastedr Chief iz GoD" Sure, there are some good FPS... Half-Life... Halo... Doom... but none of these (by far) are the best games ever created. They dont stand up to NiGhts into Dreams, Chrono Trigger, or other greats for a minute. Im just sick of seeing RPGs that just dont live up to their genre. Im not saying that todays are bad, not by a longshot, it just seems that their content is being beset by their graphics (a common problem for games -- most game consumers arent gamers, and buy only based on graphics these days). are there any RPGs that live up to my expectations anymore, or am I just stuck in the past -- a past where gameplay meant more than shiny new graphics? Im done venting steam for now... Post your thoughts here. |
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witeasprinwow   Since: 12-29-05 Last post: 6445 days Last view: 6445 days |
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EDIT: Holy shit, the kind of essays I will write when I have a project due the next day... I deserve some sort of medal for procrastination. Anyways, read at your own leisure.
Originally posted by spiroth10 Just BEGINNING to get annoying? I disagree entirely. FF has been annoying for quite a while now. Be sure to read the Toastyfrog article I linked to in there. Though I think the "Golden Age," as with most Golden Ages, is more a product of circumstance and limitations than actual talent. The RPG genre has always been blindly follow-the-leader. Before FFVII (Really, before Neon Genesis Evangelion hit the airwaves in Japan), it was all Good vs Evil with goody-two-shoes heroes and bland villians. After FFVII, it's all been mopey heroes who have petty personal problems and villians who have gone insane because of some stupid thing in their past, plus plots that have lots of inane religious symbolism. Awkward dialogue and characters that are completely impossible to relate to have been staples of the genre. Obviously, there are exceptions. FF: Tactics and Star Ocean 2 are some of my favorite games. These two aren't standard FF-type RPGs, though. I think the real problem is two-fold: 1. Games have better graphics now overall. FFVI and FFVII had stunning graphical displays, and this is large part of the reasons they were so successful. The scenes were incredible enough to warrant continued playing, even if their arrangement was totally meaningless. This kind of graphical power is no longer limited to just pre-rendered FMVs; you can have incredible real-time graphics in action games as well now. This cuts into the pre-rendered edge that RPGs used to have. 2. The need for that kind of gameplay is gone. Up through the SNES era, games were pretty much either an action-type game or a RPG. There was nothing else on the console platforms; The PC had strategy games like Warcraft, but they were all mouse-centric and thus aren't really successfull on consoles even to this day. Since action games of the time (Think Contra III, Super Mario World, ect.) were pretty much incapable of telling compelling stories, RPG was chosen as the platform with which to tell stories. The text-based nature of it made it more befitting to storytelling. (True you had some action-RPG hybrids like Ys III and Zelda: LTTP, but those were still not very story-centric.) In recent years, games like Half-Life and Halo have changed the rules. They proved that it is possible to tell a compelling story in an action format. Because of this, the old RPG random-battle kind of mechanic is outdated. You don't need to have that kind of dull and strategy-less gameplay anymore to tell a great story. And trust me, even if you don't think it's dull, it has no strategy. 99% of FF-inspired RPGs are just attack-attack-attack-heal. If you keep losing then you prepare better for the boss so that you attack with his weakness and equip armor that is strong against him. If you still keep losing then you just level up or go buy better equipment. That is RPG strategy in a nutshell. Originally posted by spiroth10 This isn't offensive, but I find it pretty stupid. There is more strategy to games like Counter-Strike than there is to most RPGs you can name. Even Doom has lots of strategy. (edited by witeasprinwow on 07-11-06 01:10 AM) (edited by witeasprinwow on 07-11-06 01:10 AM) |
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Xeo Belmont Wiiiiiiiiiiiiin  Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6335 days Last view: 6335 days |
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| Play Suikoden V.
Also, please enlighten me about this FPS fad. I'm interested. |
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spiroth10 Paratroopa Since: 01-28-06 From: USA Last post: 6335 days Last view: 6335 days |
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| well, what I meant by FPS "fad" was that FPS are very, very popular these days. there are so many FPS out there that it isnt even funny.
sure, each is unique in some way, but it seems that every game company has jumped onto the bandwagon. I like FPS myself, and I own quite a few (Metroid prime/prime 2, turok evolution, halo, halo 2., half-life 2, timesplitters 3) myself. but there comes a point where its totally pointless to release an FPS when you know that there are already 500000 others out there, and yours will be pushed into the bargain bin. I see it as sort of a "gold rush", and maybe Im wrong, but to me, it looks like people think they can make big $$$ fast on FPS, so many game companies (some most people never even heard about) decide to release a FPS. they need to realize that there is much need for non-shooters out there. (action, adventure, rpg, simulation, otherwise) this is especially so for the xbox, where you see an FPS wherever you go. Im also biased because a lot of people I know favor FPS over all other games. Some want a 360 only to play the halo games and (absolutely) nothing else. I have one friend in specific who's eyes light up only when he plays halo. he *LITERALLY* dreamt about halo. I am totally serious here. he easily falls (very deeply) into fads that a lot of people around him push him into (he listens to certain music and doesnt even know why -- he could care less what it sounds like), and he's self-righteous, even when he's obviously wrong, even when I told him that we didnt get smallpox vaccinations for school. although this has gone waaaay off-topic, so Im done here. |
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Amano Paragoomba  Since: 05-15-06 From: USA Last post: 6367 days Last view: 6360 days |
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| I would say that their are lots of generic FPS and RPG's flooding the market lately in general. FPS games should not even be compared to RPG's because they're not even in the same genre. (Besides a good FPS is ideal for a person into competitive gaming like myself)
I'd say that before Dragon Quest 8 (even with it's generic story line) and Suikoden 5 came out for the ps2 i was thinking that quality RPG's where dead. Looking at Kingdom Hearts and the latest FF's on the ps2 it definately shows that most of the current gen RPG's are going for sales with hip, metrosexual, and "cool guy" male character personalities along with women characters like... FF X2. Players raised on great rpg's released on the genesis and super nintendo will notice those kind of things while gamers raised on the newer gen of consoles won't. So it's not gonna change.
I definately wouldn't say all that. Sure Evangelion may have had a big influence on games like Xenogears and Xenosaga (i'm not even into giant robots so i couldn't judge those games) but FFVII wasn't that damn inovative. FFVII was great and all but not as if it broke the Dragon Quest style console rpg mold. Anyways, Genso Suikoden came out before FF VII and that was more original overall. (kind of interesting how people claim that they want change but games that deliver it like Suikoden only get compared and negatively judged in area's that they aren't like the standard DQ and FF format) |
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witeasprinwow Since: 12-29-05 Last post: 6445 days Last view: 6445 days |
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| I'm not saying FFVII was the best thing ever; fairly far from it, actually. What I am saying is that it was probably the most popular RPG to come out since, and possibly ever. It totally changed the landscape of RPGs, especially in Japan where businesses mostly go for rehashing the same idea over and over for a guaranteed mediocre profit as opposed to taking risks. They're a very collectivist society, and it shows in their business ethic.
FFVII may not have as much obvious symbolism as Xenogears, but even the craziest of crazies looks tame next to Xenogears. EDIT: What I am really trying to say is that there has never really been a "Golden Age" for this kind of game. There was a period where the FF / DQ-style RPG was much more popular, but I wouldn't say that means the quality of the games were better. Sorta like how sprioth is talking about how everyone knocks off Half Life or Halo nowadays, and most of the games don't turn out any good; I think the same thing was going on with RPGs back around the SNES/PS1 era. EDIT2: I guess I should add that I did like one FF a lot, and that is FFVI. True, some of the characters were worthless / "bonus" characters, but the few characters that made up the core of the game (Celes, Locke, Terra, Kefka, maybe one or two others) were really interesting. (edited by witeasprinwow on 07-11-06 03:18 PM) (edited by witeasprinwow on 07-11-06 03:26 PM) |
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Amano Paragoomba Since: 05-15-06 From: USA Last post: 6367 days Last view: 6360 days |
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Originally posted by witeasprinwow I really liked FF 6 as well. It's my fav. FF game and definatley in my top 3 fav. RPG's ever. To me what really makes an RPG great is unique dialouge and characters. I think that the teen melodrama style RPG's with romantic elements being released lately that aren't nearly as touching as Square wants them to be isn't helping. |
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Adamant Buzz Blob Staff Wii have Wii  Since: 11-17-05 From: Norway Last post: 6335 days Last view: 6335 days |
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Originally posted by witeasprinwow Even more so in the NES era. There's a huge amount of crappy DQ clones hidden deep in in the most complete NES rom sets, it's just that no one really gives a damn about them, and since they were never released outside Japan, you never hear about them either. At least not until someone decides to translate one of them, which doesn't happen too often, as there are still good untranslated games left. |
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spiroth10 Paratroopa Since: 01-28-06 From: USA Last post: 6335 days Last view: 6335 days |
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| maybe your right -- this is an age of new gamers with new preferences.
they have every right to have their clones (of games) as we did. besides, Im an independent game developer myself (working on my first, albeit crappy game now... sort of a space shooter... but instead at sea, and on boats!) Once I work up enough skill, I'll probably try to create my vision of the perfect RPG myself, nd whats better is it'll be open source and multi-platform. (C++/SDL rocks) personally, I think that the RPG genre needs to undergo an evolution. Something more like Faxandu for NES -- an action/RPG combo. what is my dream? well, I want TOTAL weapon control -- as in you can swing your sword in whatever direction youd like, clash blades (and overpower depending on your strength), good evasion mechanics (Jade empire did it well, but there is little use for it in that game) I like the idea of level-ups, but not stat based ones. sure, there should be stat upgrades, but separated from skills. Elder scrolls was OK at this, but they make it too easy to become ultimately powerful (esp in morrowind with the 1 gold training glitch) I also get the idea (from shenmue 1... the end of 2 screwed it up, and fallout as well) that a realistic RPG can be more immersive than a fantasy one. maybe based off an EMP being released and destroying technology or something. More interesting as it can happen in the forseeable future... but thats all a LOOOONG way from now. I have one GFX designer, and myself as programmer, and my skills are pretty low-end. Im JUST learning SDL, and I need to learn how to integrate a scripting language into my code to make things easier. |
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