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| 0 users currently in World Affairs/Debate. |
| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - The death penalty and injustices... |
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Silvershield   580                    Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6307 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by ||bassThe happy medium is probably some combination of a physically confined space - that is, a jail in some sense - but with less of a brute force approach to rehabilitation. As it is, the system seems to be one of "go to jail, come out in x years, that's it." A significant psychotherapeutic component needs to be thrown in the middle, somewhere in beween "go to jail" and "get out of jail." Heh heh. |
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Vyper Kodondo Raging Venom   Since: 11-18-05 From: Final Fantasy Fire Last post: 6313 days Last view: 6313 days |
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Originally posted by SilvershieldProblem is, most psychotherapists only care about their beliefs, not of the person's (this is taken from personal experience).Originally posted by ||bassThe happy medium is probably some combination of a physically confined space - that is, a jail in some sense - but with less of a brute force approach to rehabilitation. As it is, the system seems to be one of "go to jail, come out in x years, that's it." A significant psychotherapeutic component needs to be thrown in the middle, somewhere in beween "go to jail" and "get out of jail." Heh heh. |
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Silvershield 580 Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6307 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Well, many people in the field of psychology have a very strong association with a particular school of thought, and are loathe to give it up. (I know that even a friend and I, who are hardly professionals, consistently argue about the validity of Freud's theories.) I don't know what more to say about that. | |||
geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6310 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| putting them in jail makes them worse? as opposed to leaving them on the streets? or letting them continue their lives as if they had done nothing wrong?
people that break the law should go to prison.... and yes, there should probably be some effort made to rehabilitate them.... but abolishing prison altogether? do you want every murderer and rapist released so they can continue to do what they do? and I have a question..... why does a rapist have to rape? or a murderer murder? they both seem like choices to me.... choices that those people made willingly (unless mentally ill, then they should be locked up somewhere anyway) I don't see why you people want to go so easy on someone that defiles a woman, or takes a life, or abuses a child.... sure, maybe not death penalty in absolutely every case.... but come on.... you can't just say that it should never EVER be a possibility |
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Deleted User Banned    Since: 05-08-06 Last post: None Last view: 6296 days |
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Yes I can... We do not have the right to take lives. Even if there is no God, whoever or whatever created us does. |
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6310 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| we don't have the right to take lives..... so you'll justify the crimes that those people commit and you won't do anything about them? [shakes head] | |||
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| I'm a big fan of rehabilitation. Mostly because it works. | |||
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Deleted User Banned Since: 05-08-06 Last post: None Last view: 6296 days |
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Originally posted by geeogree Geeogree, I believe in imprisonment, not death... Okay? |
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Arwon Bazu Since: 11-18-05 From: Randwick, Sydney, NSW, Australia Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6296 days |
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| I just wanna point out that the vast majority of prisoners are in there for much lesser crimes. It's not all murderers and rapists FFS.
Also: Ignoring the mercernary and opportunistic nature of the thing (hedging your bets on God?), Pascal's Wager falls down because there's more than one religion that says it is the exclusive path to salvation. You're actually taking a wager on one out of dozens of options, not a binary "God/No God" thing. (edited by Arwon on 04-26-06 11:16 PM) |
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Skydude Armos Knight  Since: 02-18-06 From: Stanford, CA Last post: 6569 days Last view: 6569 days |
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| Well, as far as Pascal's Wager goes, it's like I told you yesterday about how the Catholics see it...there are many ways you can go to get to salvation...but some paths are better at getting you there than others. And belief in some God, even if "the wrong one" is likely to be regarded as better than atheism in the presence of a deity. | |||
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Arwon Bazu Since: 11-18-05 From: Randwick, Sydney, NSW, Australia Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6296 days |
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| Yeah but if hardcore Hindus or something are right, you're utterly fucked regardless. | |||
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Deleted User Banned Since: 05-08-06 Last post: None Last view: 6296 days |
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Yes, and that's a chance we have to take. As of now, we base religion choice off morals. And if we are wrong, we can't be punished for not knowing (if there is a sane God). Yes, for other religions, death penalty might be supported. But I'm basing my opinion, again, off my morals. Now, I find it weird that you oppose us. Are you hardcore Hindu? What are YOUR morals? See, we can't figure out what is true, so from here, it's ALL morals. |
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Jomb Deddorokku  Since: 12-03-05 From: purgatory Last post: 6298 days Last view: 6298 days |
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| I'm not suggesting letting the worst of the worst run free. I'm saying we should have the decency they lacked and isolate them from the rest of us in a humane way. Someone who molests children or serial rapes or serial murders is not a sane person no matter what the law claims for political reasons. Think about it, would a sane person have an over-whelming obsession with child-sex? Or would a normal person find it exciting to torture and kill someone? These cases are the very most rare in the system, but they are used to justify everything else. Like my friend doing serious hard time for having a consentual relationship with a girl just a hair below the age limit. His time was justified by the child-rapists who he has no actual relation to. But regardless, gut emotions are not what real justice is made from. Letting the victims choose the penalty is no better than letting the offender choose his own penalty. The penalty should be solely based on what would benefit society the most. This would either be a humane seperation of a criminally insane person from the rest of us, or the treatment of those who can be helped. As it is now, those that can or could have been helped are traumatized, branded for life, beat down, brutalized, and forced into a choice of either becoming very violent as a survival tactic or living a life as a homosexual slave to someone who is that violent. In this system the people who are nonviolent and want help going in are the ones most likely to be victimized, while the hardened violent sociopaths get to continue committing their crimes, but now on people who cant do anything back and have no real protection from the authorities anymore. This helps no one, it drains society, and it pumps people back into society who are more dangerous and unstable than they were going in. Its got to stop. | |||
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||bass Administrator  Since: 11-17-05 From: Salem, Connecticut Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| I'd just like to take a minute to point out that Pascal's Wager is quite possibly the single worst arguement in the history of all arguments. It's basically an unverifiable threat.
Consider the alternative position using the same logic: "People should assume there is no salvation and instead live their lives as they see fit. Do you wan't to risk not living the few short years you have on earth in a way that makes you miserable? If there is no God or salvation, you will have wasted what precious little time you have on NOTHING." Neither arguement is any more convincing than the other because both are nothing more than empty hypothetical scaremongering with no logical basis whatsoever. You could use this same line of psuedo-logic to defend things like buying large amounts of lottery tickets. It's nonsence. |
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Vyper Kodondo Raging Venom Since: 11-18-05 From: Final Fantasy Fire Last post: 6313 days Last view: 6313 days |
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| You guys all know that the bible doesn't mention "religion" once throughout its many pages, right? | |||
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||bass Administrator Since: 11-17-05 From: Salem, Connecticut Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| The repair manual for my Camaro doesn't mention "Camaro", "Chevrolet" or even "car" anywhere besides the cover. I still know what they meant. | |||
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Stop the failings of Pascal's Wager.
Join me in worshipping "Ambiguous Diety 4456221"! |
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Arwon Bazu Since: 11-18-05 From: Randwick, Sydney, NSW, Australia Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6296 days |
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| No!!! Ambiguous dieties 44547289 through 44547830 are the only paths to truth and salvation!!! Heretic! (edited by Arwon on 04-28-06 11:55 PM) |
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Deleted User Banned Since: 05-08-06 Last post: None Last view: 6296 days |
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| I always thought justice would be done, just by letting them rot in prison!!! Killing them would be an easy way out, but then again HELL would'nt...
So I ALSO agree that they shouldn't have it... we are a humane country, and killing seems a little vulger for a very free-belief country. I am opposed to it also... but not because I feel bad for the criminal being killed, just because I think what he's done should echo throughout his mind!!!! (edited by Ghost on 05-01-06 12:38 PM) |
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Skreename Giant Red Paratroopa Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6302 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Rehabilitation seems like the way to go, when possible. Otherwise... from what I've heard, it's actually cheaper to keep the person alive in jail than to execute them... so... yeah.
Of course, I find the whole "temporary insanity" thing to be rather ridiculous in general. It's better than a planned murder or something, but... Strikes me that it's a bit of a stupid way of getting out of punishment. |
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