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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Gay Fairy Tale... |
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C:/xkas bio.asm Compiled ASM code                    Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| meh, personnaly, I'm more pissed by the fact religion use school for 'enlightment'(brainwashing). wich is a dirty trick to get more member | |||
Skydude Armos Knight   Since: 02-18-06 From: Stanford, CA Last post: 6568 days Last view: 6568 days |
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Originally posted by Bio .....what? |
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C:/xkas bio.asm Compiled ASM code Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| you know, when you're young and you go at school , religious sometime come and say that if you don't do what they say you will go to hell, they keep scaring you like shit with hell(wich the bible never refer to BTW) only to make sure you follow their religion. | |||
Arwon Bazu Since: 11-18-05 From: Randwick, Sydney, NSW, Australia Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6296 days |
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Originally posted by Skydude So? Firstly, it's not solely political, it's personal, social and cultural as well. But let's assume the teacher was trying to make a political point, instead of simply exposing kids to you know, one aspect of actual reality in their silly little stories, and trying to breed a little tolerance and understanding. Let's just assume this was solely a political exercise. So was a lot of Dr Seuss. Theodore Geisl was a filthy raving radical subversive injecting nefarious propaganda into our schools. Doesn't stop it from being a good read. Probably the best children's books ever bloody made. Seriously, go read the Lorax or the one about the Star-Bellied Sneetches sometime. OMFG IT'S POLITICALLY MOTIVATED. Even the others were often about things like peer pressure or individualism or other things designed to manipulate and brainwash the poor children. Geisl was a master propagandist. His stories, as a result, were much better than the usual brand of inane pap that passes as "Children's stories". So let's draw this back even further. Why is the idea of a story about a gay couple in a stable loving relationship so much more "obviously politically motivated" than a straight couple? Think on that for a moment. Why is homosexuality inherently "political"? Is it a good thing that everything to do with gay folk must be subjected to this absurd reactionary counter-response and politicisation? The fact that this is the case in society is precisely the problem. In an ideal society these damn stories wouldn't raise any more eyebrows than any other fairy tale. But alas, to be gay and *not* ashamed of it is apparently to be "political". To be gay and in love is seen as a politial statement in a way that cannot be the case with straight people. Is this an acceptable situation for society? Look, the point is that this is a storm in a teacup perpetuated by a bunch of cranks who have nothing better to do than try to repress all signs of confident homoexauality and acceptance of homosexuals because, for some ass-backwards reason, they think it affects them or brings the end of the world or something. Which is odd really, because I thought these psychos WANTED the end of the world, in which case they should be embracing the sinful satanist perverts as bringing about Sodom and Gommorrah mark-2 and hastening their precious Judgement Day. Unless you want to remove things like Dr Seuss from schools as well, you can't oppose this or want it banned just because "it's political". (edited by Arwon on 04-25-06 11:56 PM) |
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C:/xkas bio.asm Compiled ASM code Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| I think its because some people think homosexuality is a psychological problem and if people accept it there will be more of them (edited by Bio on 04-25-06 11:57 PM) |
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Skydude Armos Knight Since: 02-18-06 From: Stanford, CA Last post: 6568 days Last view: 6568 days |
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| Well, when I said it was obviously politically motivated, I was referring more to the teacher's reading of it than the author's intentions.
And homosexuality is not inherently political...but at the moment, it is, and as such, like any issue of that sort, it's not the place for school teachers to be teaching the morality of it and superceding the parents. |
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Arwon Bazu Since: 11-18-05 From: Randwick, Sydney, NSW, Australia Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6296 days |
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| Yeah so was I. Read my first couple of paragraphs again. I was talking about teacher intentions. I think you give the teacher too little credit, but even so, even if it was purely political it is still valid.
Do you oppose Dr Seuss in schools? Finally, if you acknowledge that homosexuality is inherently political at the moment, how else is this going to change unless kids get socialised into understanding that it exists and isn't EVIL? As Rom already said, "Without being taught from a young impressionable age that this is not a bad thing to be (Gay, I mean), how do we expect change in our society?". If we take this little book as a broader example of the problems we're having with the over-politicisation of homosexuality: How else is some sort of normalisation going to happen if hysterical cultural conservatives scream bloody murder and successfully crush every free exp (edited by Arwon on 04-26-06 12:13 AM) |
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Skydude Armos Knight Since: 02-18-06 From: Stanford, CA Last post: 6568 days Last view: 6568 days |
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| To respond simply to both points, I don't think the teachers should take it upon themselves to decide what moral values to teach children. As for Dr. Suess, I would have opposed teachers foisting it upon children when the books first came out, yes. If the parents approved, fine. If not, then those parents who wanted to anyway could still get the book. I'm not for censorship at large, after all. In this case, if the parents are alright with it, fine, but otherwise, no, I don't think it's right. Perhaps eventually it can move towards the model you suggest, but I hardly think it's this teacher's place to decide when to do that. | |||
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| So, if parents aren't cool with To Kill a Mockingbird or Native Son then they shouldn't be taught? Pft, more of this stifling of education to conserve someone's small-minded morals. | |||
Young Guru Snifit  Since: 11-18-05 From: Notre Dame, IN Last post: 6301 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| From the article
"If it were North Carolina, this would be a whole different story. But the law in Massachusetts is that gay marriage is legal. We have lots of gay families in Lexington." This is a very important fact. In Massachusetts same sex marriages are allowed. This means that the public majority believes that it is okay. I don't see how reading this book is any different than bringing your kids out in public. Are parents going to be putting blinders on their kids so that they don't see a gay couple out in public. What would parents do if there was a gay couple kissing in public, would they just pretend like their kid didn't see it and move on. If anything, reading this book to the children forces the parents to discuss the issue with their kids. This is just more of this parents not wanting to be parents because they'd rather just not discuss the issue with their kids. |
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max Blipper  i'm a pixie !!! Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6556 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| i dont see how this is different from reading any other fairy tale so i honestly dont see what the problem is. but i guess people are more ignorant and bigoted than id like to belive. | |||
Silvershield   580  Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6307 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by maxWhy is it always a matter of bigotry, and not simply innocent difference of opinion? Skydude's doing well enough to defend his side with unprejudiced lines of argument, but it's still just because he's an ignorant bigot? |
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max Blipper i'm a pixie !!! Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6556 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by SilvershieldOriginally posted by maxWhy is it always a matter of bigotry, and not simply innocent difference of opinion? Skydude's doing well enough to defend his side with unprejudiced lines of argument, but it's still just because he's an ignorant bigot? actually skydude made the best comment in this thread which is "I don't think the teachers should take it upon themselves to decide what moral values to teach children.". teachers should be allowed to read whichever books they choose to (for the appropriate ages, of course), and they should not have to censor themselves. |
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Silvershield 580 Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6307 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by maxYour comment is diametrically opposed to what Skydude said in that quoted sentence. |
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max Blipper i'm a pixie !!! Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6556 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by SilvershieldOriginally posted by maxYour comment is diametrically opposed to what Skydude said in that quoted sentence. so youre saying teachers shouldnt read any books they want to kids? they should just read books approved by, who? |
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Silvershield 580 Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6307 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| I won't go off on my own tagent because Skydude is pretty much approximating how I feel about this. It's not a matter of being pro- or anti-gay, it's a matter of morality being taught to young children in schools. To address your question directly: no, teachers should not read "whatever they want" to their grammar school-age students. Especially if the content they propose to use has material that some parents might find objective. | |||
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Sinfjotle Lordly? No, not quite.  Since: 11-17-05 From: Kansas Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| When you make one exception, you have to make a lot of exceptions. If someone says you can't read a fairy tale, that just establishes a reason why you shouldn't read another fairy tale. | |||
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max Blipper i'm a pixie !!! Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6556 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| well if only straight love stories are being read in school, then morality is being taught. only showing one side of something is a very strong bias. | |||
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Silvershield 580 Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6307 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by maxNo, because heterosexuality is the "norm" and, as such, acts as a sort of control group. It describes the overwhelming majority of America's population and, even so, appears as a neutral rather than an influence in one direction or the other. However, since the homosexual issue has yet to be settled here in America, it is still politically charged (as was pointed out earlier) and so it carries with it the sense of a teacher imposing a political or moral standard on his students. |
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max Blipper i'm a pixie !!! Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6556 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by SilvershieldOriginally posted by maxNo, because heterosexuality is the "norm" and, as such, acts as a sort of control group. It describes the overwhelming majority of America's population and, even so, appears as a neutral rather than an influence in one direction or the other. However, since the homosexual issue has yet to be settled here in America, it is still politically charged (as was pointed out earlier) and so it carries with it the sense of a teacher imposing a political or moral standard on his students. thats kinda like saying rosa parks should have left her seat and went to the back of the bus, cause yknow the whole black issue was yet to be resolved in america. |
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