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| 0 users currently in World Affairs/Debate. |
| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Many of you BS'n about Bush |
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Deleted User Banned                Since: 05-08-06 Last post: None Last view: 6295 days |
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| You say he is a fool and should not have got into the war.
What would you have done "in his shoes"? Ps. If you are going to flame or BS about something, do not do it here. |
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Wurl       Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6336 days Last view: 6336 days |
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| If I was in his shoes, I would have been a total socialist and spent the money helping the poor. | |||
geeogree Red Cheep-cheep  Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6309 days Last view: 6294 days |
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and you would have ruined the country 
throwing money at the poor doesn't improve their situation |
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Deleted User Banned Since: 05-08-06 Last post: None Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by geeogree True. What would you have done about the threat of terrorism? |
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Lil Ceasar Newcomer Since: 11-19-05 Last post: 6746 days Last view: 6746 days |
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| If I were him i would have done much more for the victims of Katrina. | |||
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6309 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| IT WAS NOT HIS JOB TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT!
it was a local tragedy that could have been planned for and dealt with by the state on its own if it had just organized something. of course, when something goes wrong, just blame Bush.... we're all sure it was his fault |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| This thread isn't really going to be productive at all. It will be closed at 1 AM. | |||
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Kingpin Since: 11-21-05 From: Amarillo, TX Last post: 6300 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| I agree with what he did, but not the way he did it. If he would have spent more time planning things, we could be out of there by now and saved a lot more lives. Thats all I would have done different, was better planning. | |||
Arwon Bazu Since: 11-18-05 From: Randwick, Sydney, NSW, Australia Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Actually, it was FEMA's job. Says so in their charter. Its their job to ensure state & local agencies are prepared to meet disasters, and to coordinate a response when things clearly cn't be handled at a lower level. Which was clearly the case. They dropped the ball on that front, and the guy who appointed some crony with no disaster management experience who was fired from his previous job managing the National Horse Registry must shoulder significant fucking blame.
The Louisiana National Guard was/is mostly in Iraq, so it couldn't fulfil its role as an interim source of supplies and civil authority after the NOPD completely collapsed and was non-effective after the storm hit. It was the fed's responsibility to get some other sort of interim authority in there, either other Nat'l Guards or the Army. The federal government should have mobilised the Army before the hurricane hit. Everyone knew, or should have known, how bad it was going to be--what happened wasn't even the worst case scenario. And yet they still couldn't handle it. Primary blame rests with FEMA. On the war: The obvious answer is "I'd have not fucking invaded". The cost-benefit analayis jsut did not stack up at all, and anyone not blinded by the peculular kind of democracy-bringing-crusader ideology (neo-conservatism?) rife in the White House could see that. This includes the State Department and the CIA, for fucks' sake, both of whom were very hesitant and skeptical. I'd have recognised that Iraq was just another unpleasant authoritarian regime, it wasn't a new Cambodia or Stalinist Russia, not the pinnacle of all that was evil in the world. Invading to stop largescale killing was about 15 years too late, the humanitarian horse had well-and-truly bolted. It wasn't a threat, Iraq was prostrate and contained. I'd have pointed out that the sanctions were making Hussein stronger and his victims stronger, and tried to use the UN to exchange much more relaxed sanctions, and less isolation on trade and stuff, for new and rigorous inspections. Make the people less dependent on the Iraqi government for food etc. The inspections mostly did their job in the early and mid-90s, most of the arsenal was destroyed... which is all that could've been hoped for. No-one seriously ever expects inspections to be 100% effective. They're, by their nature, hostile, antagonitic and invasive, and it is the natural way of things that the inspected country resists and evades as much as it can get away with. Getting outraged by this was never more than a pretext for invasion. In short, I'd have recognised that the idea of invading to bring peace and democracy was, basically, delusional fantasy, and that powerful as we were, we're not omnipotent, not everything can be solved with money and bombs. Sometimes there's nothing you can do that can work well (see also: Yugoslavia). You just can't wage a political war, a war of choice, without being damn trustworthy, making damn sure you have a solid plan for improving the situation, being damn sure improving things throuh armed intervention is even POSSIBLE. Otherwise, you're just marching in, all full of righteousness and fantasy, and fucking things up in new and interesting ways. And this is what happened. (edited by Arwon on 11-24-05 12:35 AM) |
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Wurl Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6336 days Last view: 6336 days |
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| I said "money to help the poor"; not "throw money at the poor" Don't put words in my mouth. Seriously, the poor are fucked. We need public services to help them. | |||
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Deleted User Banned Since: 05-08-06 Last post: None Last view: 6295 days |
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| Now these days he is spenting more on the war than other issues. Like schools, the poor, science, rebuilding roads up, tax issues, etc. I wish we had Kary in the house. | |||
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6309 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| Peter: is she good? Kary sure sounds good.
Wurl: same difference.... you can only help the poor if they want to be helped.... so throwing money at them may not do much to actually improve their situations... sure maybe now they can buy a new TV.... or something.... but giving them money won't do anything if they're not smart enough to do something worthwhile with it |
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Kingpin Since: 11-21-05 From: Amarillo, TX Last post: 6300 days Last view: 6294 days |
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Originally posted by Wurl Um... Salvation Army anyone? I have no compassion for homeless people, most of them are there because of their own choices. The only ones I feel sorry for are the mentally disabled people that are homeless. They dont really have a choice. |
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hhallahh Micro-Goomba Since: 11-19-05 Last post: 6505 days Last view: 6505 days |
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Originally posted by Bookworm Uh, let me think about this one... Not go to war, maybe? |
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Wurl Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6336 days Last view: 6336 days |
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Originally posted by geeogree It's not throwing money at them. It's helping the ones who need help and want it. I'm not talking about giving everybody unlimited welfare when they want it. |
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Schweiz oder etwas [12:55] (Dr_Death16); I swear, the word drama needs to be stricken from the dictionary, for I've heard it so many times, it will permanently be imprinted on my brain  Since: 11-17-05 From: Kingston, Rhode Island Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| The Bush administration WAS responsible for a lot of the threats from terror in the early days of his presidency.
Bill Clinton, after the craze of Kosovo had blown over, had his administration design a plan to help combat and counter terrorism before it even started. There was a lot of funding going into the antiterror plans as it was, they were inexpensive, effective, and all set to go. All that had to happen was Rice and Rumsfeld had to agree to it. They didn't. I would have. |
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Cruel Justice I have better things to do. Since: 11-18-05 From: At my house! Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| He's not a fool, he just seems unaware of what he's doing most of the time. That's why he has advisors. At this point I cannot say I like him very much but any untimely event is not always his fault, it's the people's. That's republican for ya, it'll end soon enough. | |||
emcee Red Super Koopa Since: 11-20-05 Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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Originally posted by geeogree Yeah, you're right, I mean we all know poor people are stupid, I mean they must be or why else are they poor? (just in case my tone wasn't apparent: that's sarcasm). When I was growing up we were dirt poor. Like the majority of families below the poverty line, my mother always had at least one fulltime job, but there was still very little money to live on, and definately not enough to provide us with higher education. Now, I could have worked real hard, got straight A's and earned a scholarship, but I didn't, because I was young and stupid and I made a mistake. We all make mistakes growing up, rich and poor. The difference is those with money have a better chance of recovering from their mistakes. If they don't get the grades for a scholarship, their parents can pay tutition. If they develop a drinking problem, they can stop work and go to rehab. Clearly, with enough money, an alcoholic with bad grades can become president. I eventually got a job at a machine shop, and have since learned enough of the trade to make a decent living. Unfortuately, not everyone from a poor background is given this opportunity, and they will eventually have children who will be put in the same situation. No one is talking about "throwing money at the poor", (although it should come at no surprise that they need to eat), they should just be given the same opportunities to recover from their mistakes, and break out of the cycle of low paying jobs, alcholism and drug addiction. (edited by emcee on 11-26-05 04:56 AM) |
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Clockworkz Birdon Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| If I was in Bush's shoes, I would have never gone to war. I would have jsut send a message to the Middle east after they attacked us, saying, "Look. We have a bomb aimed for your asses. Try this shit again, we'll show you how serious we are." One of two things will happen: They call our bluff and leave us alone, or they don't buy it and attack again. THen, we launch the bomb, kill about 10000 people, and they'll wake up and say "Oh, shit! These bastards really are serious!" and leave us alone. | |||
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emcee Red Super Koopa Since: 11-20-05 Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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Originally posted by Clockworkz The entire Middle East didn't attack us. |
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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Many of you BS'n about Bush |
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