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| 0 users currently in ROM Hacking. |
| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - ROM Hacking - SMW2 what? |
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Darkmatt Red Goomba                 Since: 01-12-06 Last post: 6313 days Last view: 6279 days |
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| Pardon me, but 2004 I thought Yoshi's Island was going to have an editor that made you say "Lunar what?".
What happened? It's been like 2 years and not many people have made progress on creating a YI editor, let alone create a YI hack. I'd like to start a YI hack, but the graphicless objects and some inaccurate and incomplete information of Eggvie turned my work into, too much. Making a single level takes me days of my free time. And there's no updated documentation. Sure, if you're dedicated you could get one done, (GoYo) but seriously, who has that much time to spend? Don't they like to do other things? |
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asdf Link's Awakening ಠ_ಠ     Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6279 days Last view: 6277 days |
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| Uhhh...that's one of the fine points of SMW2 hacking. Since it takes a lot of dedication and time to get one done, you know they'll be top quality. No one else would get as far. And Eggvine still is quite functional. Look at the SMW hacking state, for example. Because of all the features of Lunar Magic and stuff available, things are a LOT easier to do, and there is a lot of room to expand on other stuff. But on the other hand, this ease attracts idiots who make...garbage. It's annoying having five terrible hacks for every one good hack.
See, you need a balance of complexity and simplicity for the hacks to be good and plentiful. Something too complex will virtually guarantee excellent hacks, but they will be very few in number. Something too simple will have no lack of hacks, but a lot of them will be garbage. For instance, Lunar Magic is an example of something far too simple. Eggvine, on the other hand, is just about right, although it might be a little too complicated at times. SMB3 editors are another good example of level editors that are not too simple nor too complex. (edited by asdf on 04-12-06 07:55 PM) (edited by asdf on 04-12-06 07:55 PM) |
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Dr. Mario Leever  Since: 11-17-05 From: Pittsburgh, PA Last post: 6279 days Last view: 6278 days |
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| You sound like an evil business man... but I love evil business men, so I totally agree. The harder something is to hack, the more impressive the hacks will be. SMB hacks don't get a lot of play anymore, because everyone can make them (I'm not saying there aren't any good ones, Googie made some kick ass SMB hacks). It's not just that though. If a game seems like it will be popular to hack, then maybe it should be a little harder to do. The less popular ones should be easy. Why do you ask? To put some reall blood sweat and tears into it, and to engage exploration into other game franchises. I hack a lot of Castlevania, why? because anything I do will be new, because barely anyone touches that series. In short, everyone will want to hack any game from the Super Mario series, and I mean everyone. So make them put some effort into it so that can turn out something awesome. But if someone wants to hack... like.... Drac's Night Out, there should be an editor that makes it the easiest thing ever, because chances are, there would only be 1 hack of it every 6 months at the least. | |||
FreeDOS + Giant Red Koopa Legion: freedos = fritos  Since: 11-17-05 From: Seattle Last post: 6277 days Last view: 6277 days |
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| SMW2 also has a fixed number of levels and no real map system. That's a downside for hacking, IMO | |||
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Deleted User Banned    Since: 05-08-06 Last post: None Last view: 6278 days |
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| I could care less for a world map myself. Most games with editors don't have maps. And fixed numbers of levels could be dealt with also. There was a zombies ate my neighbors hack and I didn't really care that it had the same amount of levels. | |||
richyawyingtmv Bouncy Since: 11-18-05 From: England Last post: 6280 days Last view: 6277 days |
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| And another thing, going with what asdf said, take a look at the Zelda 3 hacking going on right now. Hyrule Magic isnt exactly the greatest program - it's buggy as hell for a start, and to hack the game to a high standard takes years. But thats why i'm looking forward to the 5 or so Zelda hacks that are in process right now. Because of all the hard work put into them so far, they will definately be worth the wait. | |||
The 13th Prodigy Red Koopa Your Local Li'l Demon  Since: 02-11-06 From: uh...outer space? Last post: 6279 days Last view: 6278 days |
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| Well, Eggvine isn't as easy to use as Lunar Magic. That's for sure. But as mentioned the easier it is to make a hack, and make a good one, the more of them are going to appear and the more boring it's gonna get. Eggvine really isn't that hard to figure out, you've just gotta mess around. | |||
HyperHacker Star Mario Finally being paid to code in VB! If only I still enjoyed that. <_< Wii #7182 6487 4198 1828 Since: 11-18-05 From: Canada, w00t! My computer's specs, if anyone gives a damn. STOP TRUNCATING THIS >8^( Last post: 6278 days Last view: 6278 days |
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| The editor being difficult to use may help prevent crappy hacks, but it also prevents a lot of good ones. I'm sure there's plenty of people who have really nice ideas, but are turned off by the complexity involved. Between not being able to tell what object you're placing, bugs that screw everything up, and documentation that's just plain wrong, it's really quite a pain to hack YI, and that game has some great potential.
Also, simple solution to crappy hacks: Don't play them. |
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S.N.N. wtf Since: 11-17-05 From: Ontario, Canada Last post: 6283 days Last view: 6278 days |
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| Eggvines cake if you know how to it. Takes practice, sure, things are crazy in it sure, but it's very possible if you know what you're doing. Get used to the crazy angles and crap of the objects, and you'll be just fine.
Since GoYo hasn't been on in a bit, feel free to PM me if you need any help on EggVine....I still have those old tutorials he gave me a while back... |
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Squash Monster Bouncy Since: 11-18-05 From: Right next to myself. Last post: 6286 days Last view: 6279 days |
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| 90% of everything is crud.
A harder to use editor doesn't fix this, it just makes there be less of everything in the first place. It's a shame so many people have trouble using EggVine. I did my best to make the interface as easy to use as possible, but doing the graphics stuff was just beyond me at the time. I'm not touching the program again, as I don't use VB anymore (and something was wrong with my latest backup of the source anyway). I have tried to write a sequal a few times in Java, but never got very far, which is a shame, as the new interface would've blown everything else out of the water (if anyone wants to know how to make an editor for an object-based game with a GUI that doesn't suck, ask me about it). But the chances of me ever getting to work on EV again are very small. Sorry folks. I hope someone else steps up though, that'd be pretty nifty. Oh, wait! Does anyone remember back when the program was first made? My initial reason for doing it? I was trying to get this guy who had a 14 page thread on this YI editor he was supposedly making to get off his bum and actually code something. What ever happened to him? (edited by Squash Monster on 04-13-06 11:23 PM) (edited by Squash Monster on 04-13-06 11:25 PM) (edited by Squash Monster on 04-13-06 11:27 PM) |
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S.N.N. wtf Since: 11-17-05 From: Ontario, Canada Last post: 6283 days Last view: 6278 days |
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Originally posted by Squash Monster You don't need to be worried over it. People just think it's OMG INSANE because theres no pictures to help them through hacking....yet some people can do it through hex editing, which isn't even coloured boxes....numbers. The interface is still very easy to use, but one thing you should have definitely touched up on would be the pipes (i hate fully dragging them out) and the red line bridges (vertical) Other than that though, its a great editor  |
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Maple Bronto Burt  Since: 11-18-05 From: Bronx, New York Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6278 days |
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Originally posted by Squash Monster I'm pretty sure that was dcahrakos. He's still around, and possibly still working on his YI editor (according to his user bio.) |
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