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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Thought on abortion? |
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Clockworkz Birdon                   Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Food for thought: If abortions were ilegal, women would go to back alleys and use coathangers to get abortions, and those methods are unsanitary, and wind up killing the woman as well as the child.
I support abortion. A woman's body is her own choice. If you don't want an abortion, fine. Don't go. No one's going to stop you. I can see this thread becoming a nice, opinionated flame war in about... 12 minutes, tops. And that's sad. MathOnNapkins: Even if the mother is homeless, living in a hotel with no money or any way to provide for her child? What a nice church there.  (edited by cockworkz lol on 04-03-06 08:10 AM) |
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Silvershield   580   Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6296 days |
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Originally posted by MathOnNapkinsIn case you're having reading comprehension issues, let me spell it out: I was using your comments as a springboard for a rebuttal of certain points; whether exp Originally posted by MathOnNapkinsAnd anyone who says abstaining or using contraceptives is a comparable crime to abortion needs to seriously reevaluate what they're saying. (See, I just agreed with you there! Just because I don't pat you on the back and say "good point, Junior" doesn't mean we're not on the same page.) Originally posted by MathOnNapkinsOf course not. There are essentially three options: abortion, adoption, or the personal rearing of the child. My own choice would be the third, I would like to think, but certainly many people will vehemently reject the idea of raising a child that is half the rapist's. So, I put forth an acceptable alternative in adoption. Originally posted by MathOnNapkinsCertainly the Church would rather the child be raised by its true parent(s). But I'm not talking about a choice between raising the child oneself and setting it for adoption, but instead the choice between adoption and abortion. It's pretty hard to imagine many women being enthusiastic about raising the child of a rape, and so I'd think that most women have only two options in mind, those being the abortion or the adoption of the child. We're not talking about an ideal, happy childbirth to two married parents here; in that case, of course adoption is a less favorable choice. |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| I wonder what the psychological effects on a woman are after bringing the child of a rapist into this world. | |||
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Sinfjotle Lordly? No, not quite.  Since: 11-17-05 From: Kansas Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6296 days |
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| I wonder what the psychological effects on the child are when he learns that. | |||
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Silvershield 580 Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6296 days |
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| I wonder what the psychological effects are on a woman who, years later, comes to terms with the fact that she has murdered her own child.
Also, from what I've read, even the abortion of a child that was conceived within wedlock or through any other legitimate, non-traumatic means has an emotional and psychological effect on the mother similar to that seen in the case of a miscarriage or the death of a newborn. Just throwing that out there. |
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Sinfjotle Lordly? No, not quite. Since: 11-17-05 From: Kansas Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6296 days |
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| Do you have a source? The only thing I've found that looks half creditable just shows me that people are guilted into having these psychological problems by others. If it isn't considered wrong, you wouldn't feel guilty for doing it unless you found it to be bad before then. In which case you shouldn't have had the abortion in the first place.
Cause I don't like stretching tables? |
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Skydude Armos Knight  Since: 02-18-06 From: Stanford, CA Last post: 6569 days Last view: 6569 days |
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| Here's a bit on that.
I could probably find some better sites if you wanted, but that's just something that I bookmarked a few years ago. Moreover, I'm not sure if you're familiar with post-abortion syndrome, but when that is compounded with the trauma that is always present in the case of a rape, let's just say things are made very tough on the woman. (edited by Skydude on 04-03-06 05:09 PM) (edited by Skydude on 04-03-06 05:12 PM) |
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Rydain Sir Kibble Blaze Phoenix Runs with the Dragon Within  Since: 11-18-05 From: State College, PA Last post: 6300 days Last view: 6296 days |
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| The American Psychological Association does not recognize any disorder known as post-abortion syndrome. There are factors leading to post-abortion trauma in some women - such as being forced into the procedure or considering it the moral equivalent to murder. This is, of course, quite unfortunate. No woman should feel that her only recourse is a procedure that she considers to be morally abhorrent. However, I have seen no evidence to support the idea that abortion is generally traumatic to women.
I am aware that the bottom two links are biased, but they do provide comprehensive footnotes and excerpts to back up their position. From religioustolerance.org From the National Abortion Federation From Planned Parenthood (PDF) And for some personal stories from women who were happy with their decision to abort, visit I'm Not Sorry.net. |
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||bass Administrator  Since: 11-17-05 From: Salem, Connecticut Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by Rydain I agree with all of the above post basically except for the implication made by the first sentence. The APA doesn't recognize alot of things that are problems nontheless. There is no "syndrome" for feeling bad about, say, failing a test. It's just plain old-fashioned traumatic. Just because something doesn't have an offical label doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Without saying anything about right or wrong, there are SOME women who have serious psycological pain following an abortion, it's a numerical fact. I briefly dated someone who had that very same problem. In other news: On a personal note, I am pro-abortion. There are WAY TOO MANY people on Earth. The fewer new people, the better. Let's concentrate on taking care of the problems with the current population before we make more population. |
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Danielle  6730 Administratorrrr HELLO THERE   Since: 11-17-05 From: California Rate me ^_^ Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Eh, I don't think there is any situation where you can't have a baby. Even if you didn't want to take care of it... there are a million hopeful families in the world that want to adopt. Why take the life (yes, I think the life of a person starts at conception) of the baby when you could make another family happy? If the child had to choose between no life or an adopted life, I think a very large majority would go with being adopted. Of course, I can't prove it. Just my opinion on the matter. | |||
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by Danielle Just a forward on this topic - please don't open this philosophical can of worms for debate. Pre-life can be debated more in depth in a seperate thread. |
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Skydude Armos Knight Since: 02-18-06 From: Stanford, CA Last post: 6569 days Last view: 6569 days |
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| Well, except that you can't really have a discussion on abortion without asking questions such as what the alternatives are. Particularly when one side labels themselves pro-choice I think the other choices women have are a rather important topic. | |||
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Ummm, perhaps you misunderstood my post or didn't fully read the quote or something. I'm talking about asking an unborn child a question. Let us not touch that philosophical question. It does not necessarily need any addressing in this debate. | |||
mattp Red Paratroopa Since: 03-04-06 Last post: 6560 days Last view: 6560 days |
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| I hate how pro- and anti-choice debates never really go for the heart of the matter and try to answer the most important question.
When does the fetus become an independant human being? |
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6310 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| never.... a fetus is a fetus while inside a woman.... when it comes out, it's now a baby... or some stupid scientific name...
and even in this state would live only a few hours unless taken care of by an adult. babies, whether inside or out of a womb, are totally dependent on the mother or other guardian for it's life.... so, I guess a fetus becomes an independent human being when it can provide all of it's own basic needs for itself... 
which for some people is never  |
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mattp Red Paratroopa Since: 03-04-06 Last post: 6560 days Last view: 6560 days |
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| Don't be a smartass, take the question seriously.
There is a point when the baby is capable of living on its own and when it isn't. When it is completely, physically dependant on the mother, and when it is capable of processing food, air, water, etc. for itself. Not on getting the food, but on processing it. |
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Skydude Armos Knight Since: 02-18-06 From: Stanford, CA Last post: 6569 days Last view: 6569 days |
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| Well, I think one of the important considerations in that is whether it is a one-time barrier that must be passed, or whether the self-sufficiency thing is in itself important. If it's the latter, then people on life-support aren't human beings either. If it's the former, that raises a question that's actually similar, in a sense, in the impact of technology on human life. A premature child can survive on life support, and the age at which survival is possible has decreased. Has an increase in technology actually changed when the child became a human being? | |||
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6310 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| thank you skydude....
sure, I was being a little too literal.... but I was trying to make a point... some babies have been born as early as 5 months into a pregnancy and have survived.... and others are born on normal due dates and die within minutes of being born |
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||bass Administrator Since: 11-17-05 From: Salem, Connecticut Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by mattpYou know what I hate? I hate how *both* sides of the debate try to hide behind meaningless labels designed to simultaneously glorify their own position while simultaneously demonize the opposition. Does being pro-choice make your opponent anti-choice? Perhaps being pro-life makes your opponents the anti-life group. So on one side of this debate we have anti-life and on the other side we have anti-choice. Anyone notice a problem here? The real problem is that too many people in the abortion debate try hide behind labels and rhetoric rather then presenting a logical argument for their position. The whole thing is filled with religious nuts, women trying to justify a past choice that they regret, lefty civil libertarians, and moralistic nitwits. Nowhere does common sense play a roll in any of it. A slogan does not make a logical argument. When a debate has a distinct excess of dogma and emotion and precious little common sense and logic... ...both sides end up being dead wrong. (Moderator: Fixed formatting.) (edited by beneficii on 04-04-06 03:22 PM) |
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Silvershield 580 Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6296 days |
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Originally posted by ||bassHell yeah I'm anti-choice. If the choice is to preserve a life or to take it, I am thoroughly against anyone having the right to make that choice. |
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