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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - Display Case - Smoking Marijuana |
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windwaker Ninji i'm not judgemental, i'm cynical Lonely People of the World, Unite!                   Since: 12-27-05 Last post: 6307 days Last view: 6285 days |
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Originally posted by Skydude Murdering is different than drugs. HELLO PROHIBITION Originally posted by Silvershield cry me a river, long hair Also, driving stoned is much less common than driving drunk. (edited by windwaker on 04-02-06 01:59 AM) |
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Silvershield   580   Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6289 days Last view: 6277 days |
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Originally posted by TaraleIt's common enough knowledge that alcohol lowers one's inhibitions; a sober person would rationally decide not to drive while drunk, but could very well make the opposite choice once he is actually under the influence, because rational thought is impaired. In that way, alcohol could certainly cause a person to do something dangerous. In my experience, people get in more fights and have more unprotected or promiscuous sex while drunk, also. Originally posted by TaraleEnter the embarassingly American habit of sueing everyone for everything. "I know I spilled the scalding coffee on myself, but McDonald's should give me millions of dollars even though it is purely common sense to not drive while holding a boiling beverage in my hand!" Originally posted by TaralePot is not as commonly responsible, I think, for the accidents alcohol so often brings. Mainly because a person who is high is not usually interested in going out and doing things, whereas a drunk person is usually quite intent on continuing the party, even if it means getting in the car and driving to a new venue because the current one is dying down. But, in cases when a person who has smoked is given reason to get behind the wheel, it's just as dangerous as a drunk person doing so. My roommate jokes about how, when he's high and he needs to drive, a little stuffed frog named Filmore helps him navigate. Which I find hilarious, though I wonder how much of it is a joke...  |
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Skydude Armos Knight  Since: 02-18-06 From: Stanford, CA Last post: 6551 days Last view: 6551 days |
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| I think also several people missed the point of the analogy I made. My point was merely that the logic used by the person I was responding to was "people do it anyway, so make it legal" is really very bad logic. I wasn't trying to say that doing drugs is as bad as some of these other crimes or anything like that. I was merely addressing extremely faulty logic, nothing more. | |||
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windwaker Ninji i'm not judgemental, i'm cynical Lonely People of the World, Unite! Since: 12-27-05 Last post: 6307 days Last view: 6285 days |
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Originally posted by Skydude The logic wasn't faulty in this context at all. Which is easier to punish (legally) and catch; murdering someone or smoking pot? You can't even begin to discourage smoking pot for the most part, but you can with murder, because not too many people get away with murder. |
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Skydude Armos Knight Since: 02-18-06 From: Stanford, CA Last post: 6551 days Last view: 6551 days |
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| And you miss my point yet again. Basically, what you said translated in logic to "if people will do it whether or not it's legal, we should make it legal." It makes no statement as to how good or bad pot is, or the other acts, or how it can be punished. It merely suggests that the fact that people will do it means that we should let them. Now, elaborating further on it changes things a bit...but from what you said there, it's extremely faulty logic. | |||
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windwaker Ninji i'm not judgemental, i'm cynical Lonely People of the World, Unite! Since: 12-27-05 Last post: 6307 days Last view: 6285 days |
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Originally posted by Skydude Like I said, not in this context. Plus, the fact that so much money is wasted on something that they'll never stop, as opposed to something they should stop. |
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Arwon Bazu Since: 11-18-05 From: Randwick, Sydney, NSW, Australia Last post: 6279 days Last view: 6278 days |
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| I strongly object to the idea being put forward by Skydude and Silvershield that "victimless crimes" should still remain crimes, because they may contribute to associated crimes such as theft and DUIs.
The actual crimes under discussion are covered by other offences and thus decriminalisation of a drug will do nothing to allow those other crimes... and using the outlawing of mere consumption of a substance to combat those other crimes is an extremely blunt and ineffective instrument targetting many innocent people. This is not even to mention how staggeringly hypocritical a principle it is, given the close relationship between legal alcohol and assault, drink-driving and property damage. And basically, the paternalistic disregard for personal responsibility, liberty, intelligence and decision making is just plain insulting. "Drugs are bad" does not, and SHOULD NOT imply "drugs must be banned". Thinking something is bad should never automatically imply it should be illegal... and arguing that something is bad does NOT prove it must be banned. The idea that some drugs are outlawed cos they contribute to criminal behaviour is not only one that cannot stand on its own merits, but in many cases such as heroin, the reality is actually directly the inverse. The effects of criminalisation of junk on its users (social marginalisation and alienation from legal and social institutions, dependency on the dealers who have a monopoly over supply, the massive increase in market price) actually CAUSES crime and a great deal of suffering. (edited by Arwon on 04-02-06 07:11 AM) |
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Jomb Deddorokku  Since: 12-03-05 From: purgatory Last post: 6280 days Last view: 6280 days |
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| By the argument that marijuana or alchohol should be outlawed because of drunk driving, then so should sleepiness, cell phones, etc. because these things could conceivably impair you and cause an accident. But why not take it one step further, accidents keep happening with automobiles, people are dying. So why not get right to the root of the problem and make vehicles of all sorts illegal? Spouses sometimes kill each other, so lets make it illegal to get married or to cohabitate. Pet dogs sometimes go berzerk and kill someone, so lets make dog ownership illegal and put all dogs to sleep. Once in a long while someone dies from taking over-the-counter medicine, so lets get rid of it all. Life is just too dangerous, people are dying, so lets make pregnancy illegal, afterall its really murder bringing a child into the world knowing it will one-day die.
Enough silliness?  Obviously life will never be perfectly safe, and making everything illegal is not the answer. Make the things which cause clear and direct harm to someone else or their property illegal, and make the punishments fit the crime, not be over-the-deep-end knee jerk reactions, and leave it at that. Teach people to be responsible in whatever they do, and live life understanding that life is full of risks and they can never be completely eliminated. |
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6292 days Last view: 6277 days |
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| Jomb: driving while using a cell phone should be illegal.... it does impair driving ability to a significant degree to cause serious danger
your argument was overboard and stupid.... some things like driving while talking on a phone are also stupid.... and should be illegal... maybe you should be illegal |
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mattp Red Paratroopa Since: 03-04-06 Last post: 6542 days Last view: 6542 days |
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| Now that's not entirely true, I can drive and cell phone ( yes I verbified it ) responsibly. | |||
Tarale 2710 Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!! Persona non grata Since: 11-17-05 From: Adelaide, Australia Last post: 6277 days Last view: 6277 days |
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| This is off topic: but driving and using a cell / mobile phone is illegal here. (Adelaide, South Australia, Australia) | |||
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6292 days Last view: 6277 days |
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| mattp: some people can... I can do it and do it quite well.... but not everyone can.
I can also drink and drive (I've done it).... that doesn't mean it should be legal.... if your conversation is so important that it can't wait.... either get off the road or get a head set or other hands free device so that you can concentrate more on the road and use both hands and to bring it back to the topic.... marijuana impairs reaction times in people.... therefore if it is decriminalized then being high while driving should be illegal |
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Tarale 2710 Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!! Persona non grata Since: 11-17-05 From: Adelaide, Australia Last post: 6277 days Last view: 6277 days |
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| Being high while driving is already illegal here too. | |||
NSNick Gohma IF ALL ELSE FAILS USE BOOZE  Since: 11-17-05 From: Last post: 6279 days Last view: 6279 days |
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Originally posted by geeogree That's his point. Driving and talking on a cell phone at the same time is becoming illegal in areas, but that doesn't mean that cell phones by themselves should be banned. Likewise, if pot were legalized, then smoking pot and driving should be banned, but not simply the act of smoking pot. |
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6292 days Last view: 6277 days |
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| I never argued otherwise....
in fact, I argured that exact point earlier.... |
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NSNick Gohma IF ALL ELSE FAILS USE BOOZE Since: 11-17-05 From: Last post: 6279 days Last view: 6279 days |
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| Yeah, I just didn't think you got the point of his post. | |||
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6292 days Last view: 6277 days |
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| ah, fair enough.... it is kinda hard to read his post when the entire thing is just 2 paragraphs without any clear separation of thought or point...
I prefer lots of spaces between sentences  |
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Sinfjotle Lordly? No, not quite.  Since: 11-17-05 From: Kansas Last post: 6279 days Last view: 6277 days |
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Originally posted by geeogree Pot also causes a paranoia in people which causes them to drive slower and more carefully. My mother smokes and drives, she has never been in a wreck while smoking pot. Same with: My father, step father, eldest uncle, second eldest uncle, third eldist uncle, youngest uncle, best friend (I wish he wouldn't though), and a few cousins here and there. In fact, I've never heard of anyone (I know) getting in a wreck while someone in either car was smoking pot. |
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6292 days Last view: 6277 days |
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| maybe that's because we don't test for it.... or don't report it as being a cause... I'm willing to bet many car accidents (even just more minor ones) could have been influenced by pot, but never reported because police weren't needed at the scene....
just because it hasn't happened to you or 10 people you know.... doesn't mean it can't or won't happen I already said that certain drugs affect people more or less than others.... maybe your family/friend have higher tolerance, or aren't "high enough" to be significantly impaired at the time... to many factors to make such a blanket statement |
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Sinfjotle Lordly? No, not quite. Since: 11-17-05 From: Kansas Last post: 6279 days Last view: 6277 days |
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| This is the same applied to ciggerettes though, is it illegal to smoke tabacco and drive? One hand will be off the wheel regardless and I'm saying you shouldn't try to say it causes accidents without proof that it causes accidents. You can assume it does, but you know, then you have the whole lame saying about the word. |
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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - Display Case - Smoking Marijuana |
| Thread closed |
I find too many people nowadays like to blame things rather than take personal responsibility, a trend that I find rather sickening.