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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - Display Case - Smoking Marijuana |
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Skydude Armos Knight                    Since: 02-18-06 From: Stanford, CA Last post: 6551 days Last view: 6551 days |
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| THAT is an incredibly foolish argument. By that same logic, we shouldn't make anything illegal. People will murder others, steal things, etc. FOREVER...so we should make them legal. | |||
Arwon Bazu  Since: 11-18-05 From: Randwick, Sydney, NSW, Australia Last post: 6279 days Last view: 6278 days |
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| I think this is where me and a bunch of libertarians jump up and down and scream VICTIMLESS CRIME at you. | |||
Silvershield   580  Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6290 days Last view: 6277 days |
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| Tell every mother whose child was killed by a drunk or stoned driver that using drugs is a victimless crime.
Sure, it's an uncommon occurance, but so is a woman becoming pregnant by rape. But people still support the legalization of abortion in all cases with the argument that abortion cannot be outlawed because a woman who's been raped deserves the right to an abortion. If such an insignificant situation is given such prominence, why is it not similarly acceptable for me to argue that the small (but still significant) number of drunk- and stoned driving deaths should be generalized to all cases of drinking and smoking? I'm admittedly playing Devil's advocate in a way, but I do have some basis in truth, I think; the left has a double standard, wanting to generalize in some cases but not in others, and I take issue with it. |
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emcee Red Super Koopa Since: 11-20-05 Last post: 6278 days Last view: 6277 days |
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Originally posted by Silvershield No, some may be argue about issues of impregnantion by rape, but I think the general arguement is for it to be the woman's choice reguardless of the situation. But that's not really an issue, I mean you can't say that its ok to use flawed logic because others use while pointing out that its flawed logic. Drinking or being high while driving is a seperate issue than just drinking or being high, one is a victimless crime (well nothing's a completely victimless crime, but those are pretty close), while the other isn't. |
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mattp Red Paratroopa Since: 03-04-06 Last post: 6542 days Last view: 6542 days |
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| Because drunk driving already is a crime and no one is arguing the legalization of it, your post is wasted. Sorry.
Either way, the real legal argument for abortion is that, since the fetus isn't a person yet, it can't have rights and is a parasite of the mother, making it the mothers right to decide. The debate shouldn't be over the morality and the blind "ITS WRONG ALL FETUSES ARE PEOPLE" but they should try to find evidence to determine when or if the fetus actually does become a person inside the womb. Personally I think that it becomes a person once it is self sufficient ( in a strictly operational sense, not in a worldly sense of course ), or when it can survive and be cut from the umbilical cord. If it can eat, drink, and breathe on its own then it is a person. Before that its as much of a person as is any other part of the woman's body and the arguments are as valid as if they were against amputation. I went off on a tangent |
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Skydude Armos Knight Since: 02-18-06 From: Stanford, CA Last post: 6551 days Last view: 6551 days |
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| That really is a tangent, into a subject that is not only off-topic, but has caused more arguments and drama on this board than is really advisable to recreate. I have far too much to say on the topic and I'd rather not start. | |||
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Arwon Bazu Since: 11-18-05 From: Randwick, Sydney, NSW, Australia Last post: 6279 days Last view: 6278 days |
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| "Tell every mother whose child was killed by a drunk or stoned driver that using drugs is a victimless crime."
No, because driving under the influence IS a crime with victims. Or to put it another way, drugs don't crash cars/rob you/steal VCRs, people do... so the crime should be solely in the ACTION or ATTEMPTED ACTION taken under the influence, not the mere situation of being under the influence. |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6277 days Last view: 6277 days |
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Originally posted by Silvershield Yo there, that ain't part of this conversation. Please drop it. If you want to whine about the left-right dichotmy, create a thread about it. And from there I will decide that whether an inflammatory topic will be allowed to stand on its own. |
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Skydude Armos Knight Since: 02-18-06 From: Stanford, CA Last post: 6551 days Last view: 6551 days |
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Originally posted by Arwon Well, I'm not sure it's a perfect argument that he has there, but the fact of the matter is that your judgment is impaired in those circumstances, such that it might be better to not have people in those situations anyway. He also looks at a sort of cost/benefit analysis, and in some views it may be that the benefits of alcohol and/or pot are not worth the potential costs. Not in the mood to do lots of econometrics with far too little data, I'm not going to give a solid answer on that, but it's something to consider. |
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Silvershield 580 Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6290 days Last view: 6277 days |
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Originally posted by Plus Sign AbominationYo there, I don't know why you're jumping all over me for including a small aside that neither calls for a response nor makes any attempt on changing the thread's subject. And before you label a perfectly legitimate statement as "whining," perhaps you'd best examine your own record for more accurate examples of that word. To add a third offense to what is an overwhelmingly offensive post in general, you decide to accuse me of making an inflammatory statement, or presenting an inflammatory argument? Ziff, I know your politics are decidely liberal, but does that give you the authority to imbue your role as a moderator with the residue of that political designation? I make a civil and intelligent statement, yet you disagree with it and so it becomes "inflammatory"; in a thread that has since been trashed, a poster starts a thread on the basis of defaming and insulting all Republicans in general, and you close his thread without an angry word and with the advice that his was a perfectly acceptable discussion if only it were rephrased. Be mature and realize that to have a position of authority means to discard your own personal biases. |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6277 days Last view: 6277 days |
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| Did I close this thread? Did I get angry?
The simple fact is when it comes to "OMG LIBERALZZZ" it nearly always turns into whining. I'm not singling you out. I'm using those words to make a marked point so that if it gets responded to the next poster will know to post in another thread. Yeesh. And to accuse me of abusing my powers based on personal bias? Ouch, dude. Ouch. That republican thread. Notice how I closed it? If I were biased I'd have told you guys to go bugger yourselves if you didn't like it. Plain and simple. I closed it because it would've turned into an absolute flamewar OFFENDING you, geeogree, skydude and other conservatives on the board. If your insuation were correct my evil NAZI gay agenda liberal views would've came into play I'd have kept it open and branded all conservatives baby eating homophobes from the 8th circle of Hell. And again, I made no personal accusation. If you'd read my post I mentioned "from there I will decide that whether an inflammatory topic will be allowed to stand on its own." I made mention that the topic in and of itself was inflammatory because it turns into nothing more than a "you're wrong because I'm right!" or "I'm right you're wrong, na na na boogers!" sort of argument. You know how long I've watched this forum. I try my personal best to stop inflammatory topics before they come. In fact, I had an opposite-leaning moderator added to help me keep the impartiality of this forum. But yeah, thanks for accusing me of being an asshole that abuses his powers  |
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Skydude Armos Knight Since: 02-18-06 From: Stanford, CA Last post: 6551 days Last view: 6551 days |
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| And right there you show how judgmental you are, and the kinds of assumptions you make. Just because I'm not liberal doesn't mean I'm conservative. I'm pretty moderate in my beliefs, by any reasonable scale. And that you would label me as conservative right there says enough. And he is right, too. You do seem a lot quicker to jump angrily on people who are liberal-bashing than those who are conservative-bashing. That you closed the topic doesn't prove you're impartial...it merely shows that you're not insanely liberal. | |||
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6277 days Last view: 6277 days |
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| I was putting things in the term of the conservative-liberal dichotomy. I wasn't making a direct claim that you or Silvershield were conservatives. Frankly I don't care whether you are or not.
However, Skydude. You really need to step back and understand that ever since I've taken this post that I've been CONSTANTLY attacked for this. I have every right to be defensive when people come up and consistently accuse me, wrongly, of being biased. |
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Skydude Armos Knight Since: 02-18-06 From: Stanford, CA Last post: 6551 days Last view: 6551 days |
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| Well, I find it hard to be sympathetic to you for being attacked for that since I myself have been constantly attacked in exactly the way I felt you were doing to me, though they are quite serious about it. I'll take your word for it that you weren't. | |||
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Silvershield 580 Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6290 days Last view: 6277 days |
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Originally posted by SkydudeHe closed the topic because to leave it open would be blatantly biased due to its radical nature. If it were more rationally presented, I have no doubt he could've made an argument to keep it open. Ziff, there was no whining in what I wrote, and I never said "OMG LIBERALZZZ." (On a sidenote, it's hard for me to put into words how terribly annoying it is when you and Valcion find it funny to write like that.) Originally posted by Plus Sign AbominationYou certainly were singling me out. More offensive statements have made in reference to the right, especially the religious right, and you don't bat an eyelash at it. Maybe you're not singling me out, but you're singling out people who exp Originally posted by Plus Sign AbominationYes. When I made a rational and civil statement, you label it inflammatory and insinuate that, if it were it's own thread, it would've been closed. But another poster exp It would've turned into a flamewar because the initial post was a flame, through and through. Not because, as you would seem to imply, we "conservatives on the board" have a tendency towards inciting pointless flaming. Furthermore, trying to defame me by putting words in my mouth and suggesting that I see you as an "evil NAZI gay agenda liberal" doesn't reflect well on your skill in argument. Originally posted by Plus Sign AbominationYou shouldn't need an opposite-leaning moderator unless you're admitting a tendency to act on personal bias rather than duty as a moderator. Originally posted by Plus Sign AbominationMore words you're putting in my mouth. |
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Tarale 2710 Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!! Persona non grata Since: 11-17-05 From: Adelaide, Australia Last post: 6277 days Last view: 6277 days |
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Wow, thanks for this guys. Right in the middle of what was a fairly enjoyable thread.  Thanks a whole bunch.
Frankly, I don't think Ziff was singling you out Silvershield. I think he identified an off topic remark that could result in argument (like Skydude also identified another off-topic remark (abortion) that could also result in argument. I think what he was said was then taken out of the context I took it to be meant in / misinterpreted, and then blown way out of proportion. |
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Silvershield 580 Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6290 days Last view: 6277 days |
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Originally posted by TaraleGo ahead, get it back on topic. Stop complaining and say something relevant; if you're so annoyed by off-topic discussion, don't contribute to it. Originally posted by TaraleI'm perfectly justified in making an off-topic remark when it's related to a perfectly on-topic post. Are you faulting me for making an analogy to a related subject? I did not ask anyone to reply to those specific statements I made, I simply used them to provide a backdrop for my argument; if they were taken as the main drive of my posts, and responded to as if that were the case, it would be the fault of the person who misinterpreted it. |
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Tarale 2710 Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!! Persona non grata Since: 11-17-05 From: Adelaide, Australia Last post: 6277 days Last view: 6277 days |
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Wow, I get the impression you like jumping down people's throats.  Honestly, I just called it like I saw it, you were really quite rude in reply. 
And I am disappointed that this thread has turned into a shitslinging match now. I was previously finding it very interesting and enjoyable.
Whatever, back on the topic of "victimless crime". I don't think just cause you smoke pot it means you're going to go out and kill somebody in your car or do something else bad. I'm sure it happens, but I wouldn't fault the drug for that -- I'd fault the person. And again, everybody is different. I certainly wouldn't drive under the influence. ANY influence -- pot or alcohol. Hell, I don't even drive when I'm too sleepy.  I know that it's not a good idea to drive while impaired (regardless of what situation has led to me being impaired).
Not everybody else is as responsible as I am; but that's not the fault of marijuana or alcohol. Alcohol or marijuana doesn't MAKE somebody decide to get behind the wheel -- it's the fault of the person. |
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Silvershield 580 Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6290 days Last view: 6277 days |
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Originally posted by TaraleI'm jumping down people's throats because I'm incensed over what I take as a great indignation from Ziff. You weren't my target, and I didn't intend to snap at you. Originally posted by TaraleOf course it doesn't mean that smoking pot or having a beer will cause you to go out and commit a crime. I never said something like that. Originally posted by TaraleThen you're a better person than many. Of the people I know who drink or smoke, a significant and frightening number of them have driven while under the influence. I know only one person who's been caught for it, and none of them have been in an accident because of it, but that certainly doesn't make it alright. |
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Tarale 2710 Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!! Persona non grata Since: 11-17-05 From: Adelaide, Australia Last post: 6277 days Last view: 6277 days |
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| See, but there are a few people that DO actually believe that marijuana / alcohol / whatever will cause people to go out and do dangerous things; which is I guess a point I was addressing.
It doesn't help that some people will actually blame it themselves too. Even though they were under the influence; blaming the alcohol or weed does not absolve one of personal responsibility. But then, the whole "personal responsibility" thing is another can of worms. I find too many people nowadays like to blame things rather than take personal responsibility, a trend that I find rather sickening.
The only thing I'd blame pot for is.... it makes me a little sleepy, and I want to eat things. And I'd still blame myself (not the weed) if I ate a bunch of chocolate and gained a kilogram. Free-will and willpower still apply under the influence
As for the other stuff; could it pretty please be another thread, or PM? I know, I got a bit snappy myself, I was just so... very annoyed/disappointed about what was happening to a thread I found so enjoyable.  (edited by Tarale on 04-02-06 01:21 AM) |
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