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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - ROM Hacking - Final Fantasy 1's Starting Position |
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Dragonsbrethren   440                    Since: 12-01-05 From: New Jersey Last post: 6476 days Last view: 6476 days |
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| Use the normal warp title, you only need a teleport tile to exit when you can go to a non-overworld map from the map you're on. | |||
DF Ash Goomba  Since: 03-16-06 From: United States Last post: 6488 days Last view: 6488 days |
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| Ah, okay, I'll do that! But I guess my question is this: if I'm editing Melmond, and I set the warp tile to get out of Melmond, there's no "exit: Melmond" in the list of available warps, and not enough unused exits to accomodate all the towns. There has to be something I'm missing about leaving towns, especially since the game puts you on top of whichever town icon you last stepped on, without regard to an exit coordinate. So far I'm treating them like leaving dungeons, which puts the player on one specific overworld coordinate, but that can't be right, and I'm quickly running out of spare exits.
(Edit: Okay, I've solved it now, but I'll leave the message up in case anyone else new to it reads this thread. Inside the town, you set the warp to 'enter town' and it seems to just send you back to the coordinates you entered from. No need for seperate 'exit' coordinates except for dungeons with multiple levels. At least... I think that's it.) And thanks again: I was wondering what the difference between warp and teleport is.  (edited by DF Ash on 04-09-06 10:35 AM) |
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Disch Red Cheep-cheep Since: 12-10-05 Last post: 6568 days Last view: 6568 days |
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| I probably could have named those better -- "teleport" came to mind right away and that's what I was calling all of them... but then the special "warp" teleports I named after the spell WARP, since they act exactly the same (taking you back to the floor you were previously on).
Exit teleports only need to be used when an area has multiple entry points (Titan's Tunnel) or multiple exit points (Titan's Tunnel, Ice Cave -- Earth Cave, Volcano, Sea Shrine, Sky Castle all have the secondary exit behind the altar, too). You also need to be weary of plot events that teleport your character, as those will screw with the warp stack: You'll notice that in the original game, Coneria Castle does not use ANY warp teleports, even though it's just a simple 2-floor castle. You could put in warps and play it and it would play fine until you rescue the princess. Consider the following: - You enter ToF (warping would now take you just outside of the ToF) - You rescue the princess, she teleports you to Coneria 2F (warping would take you to the last map you were on -- so warping would take you to the ToF!) - If you want to go downstairs to Coneria 1F, you need a normal teleport tile, since a warp tile wouldn't put you there (edited by Disch on 04-09-06 12:27 PM) |
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DF Ash Goomba Since: 03-16-06 From: United States Last post: 6488 days Last view: 6488 days |
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| Hm, I think I see. A warp tile doesn't have or need any specific coordinates set to it; it always just sends the player back to the last map they were on. I've set the towns and other single-map exits back to warp tiles and they work perfectly now. Thanks! | |||
srothroc Red Paragoomba Since: 04-27-06 From: Chambersburg, Pa Last post: 6307 days Last view: 6293 days |
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Originally posted by Rockman I'm curious - how did you find that out? I'm trying to figure out this exact same problem for a hack I want to work on, but I'd (presumably) have to specify completely different values if I was remaking the maps, right? How would I find out the values for the tile I wanted to start at after I'd remade the maps? |
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DF Ash Goomba Since: 03-16-06 From: United States Last post: 6488 days Last view: 6488 days |
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| Does it work for you? If so, please tell me how you did it!
From what little I understand, the memory address in the rom never changes, so if the starting coordinante points at submap #11 (just making up a number), then it'll always point at that particular submap. But you can use Hackster to swap maps, dungeon types and change the exit codes and locations, so that for all practical purposes, the party starts off in whichever map you want, all without changing the submap number or the address being referred to. In my case, I do want them to start in Coneria, but as far as I can tell, you could change "Coneria" into a copy of any other place, change the other place to Coneria, rework the exit coordinates, and that'll solve it. To answer your question from another thread, I had the same idea about one party member who meets others, but FF1's engine doesn't allow it. Too many things depend on four characters being in the party, such as the shops and menu screen, and there's no existing in-game way to introduce new characters. The closest might be starting them all off dead, but they'd show up on the intro screen, and show up dead on the menu screen and the player could just visit a clinic to bring them all to life. It could probably be done by directly programming it yourself... Now, one other question on Hackster: I got a strange error message last night saying that the "map is too complex, did not save to rom." I wasn't doing anything especially complicated with it, just making a forest around a mountain and stream. It's been fixed now, but I don't want want to make the same mistake twice. Does erasing too many of the compressed ocean tiles mess things up on the rom? |
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Disch Red Cheep-cheep Since: 12-10-05 Last post: 6568 days Last view: 6568 days |
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Originally posted by DF Ash Well it's not messing up anything in the ROM -- what's happening is the map can't be compressed to a size small enough to fit back in the ROM. You must have ran out of 'KAB' (Known Available Bytes). Keep an eye on the KAB as you're editing (to refresh it, press the Find KAB button).. it must always stay above 0 -- when you're near zero, you're running out of space. Maps need horizontal runs to compress. If you're creating graphical effects by alternating every other tile or something like that, you'll destroy any attempt to compress the map. Also -- full rows of any tile (typically ocean water) compress to literally nothing. The first full row of water will use 3 bytes total -- after that, Hackster will recycle that row for any other row which contains nothing but water (so if you have, say, 25 rows of nothing but ocean water -- all 25 rows will compress down to 3 bytes total). So by changing a row that has nothing but water in it, you'll be taking away a significant amount of KAB. (Hackster will actually recycle any rows that are 100% identical, no matter how complex the rows are -- however it's just most likely that the only identical rows will be nothing but ocean water) Also one final note: Tile 7F (the last tile -- lower-right-most tile) cannot compress at all... so if you make a run of that tile it won't compress, it'll just eat up all your KAB. (edited by Disch on 05-01-06 09:03 AM) (edited by Disch on 05-01-06 09:05 AM) |
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DF Ash Goomba Since: 03-16-06 From: United States Last post: 6488 days Last view: 6488 days |
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| Thanks, that problem's fixed now! I'm not sure where the KAB went (no wierd alternating tile effects, just some additional forests and mountains), but as you said, creating a few horizontal rows of ocean freed up a ton of KAB, enough to hopefully rest through the rest of the overworld modding.
Has anyone had anymore luck with Rockman's hack, or knowledge of the starting position code? I've been exploring it, and it seems that it glitches the first time you start a new game, and then apparently glitches when you soft reset and do it again. But then you can just take a step and the screen adjusts to show Coneria 2F. However, you start off in "inside-room" status, so the sprites are invisible and you can see in other rooms (if you walk into a room and then back out, everything's fine). Then if you soft-reset the game again and restart, everything's completely normal. It does seem to scramble the "continue" data, but that might just be because my continue data's prehack: I haven't saved a game afterwards to see what happens, so that might not really be a problem. I've built up the hack (3 playable hours now, with new classes, magic, weapons and shop system set up) around the idea of beginning on a submap and eventually exiting into the outside world: does anyone know what might cause that kind of behavior with it, and how it could be fixed to start the new game in a submap rather than overworld? Any submap is fine, since the maps can be swapped between them... they just have to start off in an area that won't show up on the overworld map. |
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DF Ash Goomba Since: 03-16-06 From: United States Last post: 6488 days Last view: 6488 days |
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| And so the thread won't just be me begging for help on this starting position thing, here's a quick rundown of what's new in the hack:
- Completely new storyline - An overhauled world with new towns, dungeons and quests - 3 new character classes (6 new classes, counting class change) - 2 new weapon types - A new magic system, and two new skill categories - A revised shop system - New sub-bosses What's remained are the general map tiles and many of the sprites (it's still the Final Fantasy 1's world, although specific locations can look very different now) and the random monsters (although the domains have been redone). The music is likely to remain untouched, as I have no delusions of being a better composer than Uematsu, and importing later FF tracks seems to be too much work for too little creative payoff (besides, as much as I love the later soundtracks, especially Final Fantasy 4, I want this hack to evoke FF1's world and atmosphere). The story revolves around Chaos and the Fiends of Elements, and so they've remained as the game's bosses, but the context and reasons for those battles are often very different than they were in the original Final Fantasy. Screenshots may be coming soon: as said, about 3 playable hours of the game are done, and I've stopped only to make sure all the new game mechanics are ironed out before returning to mapping and level design. There are definitely new images ready to be captured, but I want to be sure nothing changes before posting them. Besides, I also don't want to spoil any of the story or secrets. (edited by DF Ash on 05-23-06 11:51 PM) (edited by DF Ash on 05-23-06 11:54 PM) |
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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - ROM Hacking - Final Fantasy 1's Starting Position |
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