 |
| Register | Login | |||||
 |
Main
| Memberlist
| Active users
| Calendar
| Chat
| Online users Ranks | FAQ | ACS | Stats | Color Chart | Search | Photo album |
|
| | ||
|
| Register | Login | |||||
|
Main
| Memberlist
| Active users
| Calendar
| Chat
| Online users Ranks | FAQ | ACS | Stats | Color Chart | Search | Photo album |
|
| | ||
| 0 users currently in ROM Hacking. |
| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - ROM Hacking - Final Fantasy 1's Starting Position |
New poll |  |  |
| Pages: 1 2 3 | Add to favorites | Next newer thread | Next older thread |
| User | Post | ||
DF Ash Goomba                  Since: 03-16-06 From: United States Last post: 6487 days Last view: 6487 days |
| ||
| I've just started work on a Final Fantasy NES hack, but can't figure out how to change the starting position (right after party selection in a new game) to a new location. FFHackster lets you drag and drop the starting position to different coordinates on the overmap, but what I really need is to make it so that the party starts within a town or dungeon instead of the world map. Is that possible, and if so, how do you change the starting point to the new location? I'm just familiar enough with hex editing to search and replace specific bits using FFBytes' info, but that's about it. Thanks for your help! | |||
|
DF Ash Goomba Since: 03-16-06 From: United States Last post: 6487 days Last view: 6487 days |
| ||
| Okay... well, does anyone know of a good program for comparing the hex values of two roms? I've tried Frhed, but even a straight copy of the original rom comes back with over 9000 seemingly random byte differences compared to the original. If I can find what actually changes when the starting position's changed, and what changes when a warp into a town is changed, maybe I can change the bits and make the game think it's entering a town when you leave the class select screen.
Logically, I don't see why it can't be done. FFHackster can already switch exits and entrances, and I'm guessing the jump to the world map is treated by the game like an exit to the world map, which could be swapped with an entrance to a town. |
|||
dormento Red Goomba Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6441 days Last view: 6288 days |
| ||
| Unfortunately, i don't think it's that easy...
I will try looking for it, and share what I can find. |
|||
|
DF Ash Goomba Since: 03-16-06 From: United States Last post: 6487 days Last view: 6487 days |
| ||
| Yeah, it's probably not that easy, but I've gotta start somewhere...
On the surface, this seems like it'd be simple: just take the command to jump to Coneria Overworld, and replace it with a command to jump to, I dunno, Coneria Castle 2F. What I really need is to have the player start in an area that essentially disappears once they've left it. If they can start inside a submap, that's easy: set an exit tile, but don't put an entrance tile on the world map. That way there's really two seperate areas, and the first one is sealed off completely once the player leaves it. But if the start point has to be on the world map, that becomes a problem. Every part of the world map is at least visible through the airship, and the layout can be seen through the minimap screen. It's possible to modify the world map so that the airship can't go near the "disappeared" sections of the worldmap (and that'd actually make sense in the new storyline), but it detracts from the game, and the spot would still be visible on the minimap. It'd be too obvious a cheat. If it was only as simple as "go to $11B14 and replace A013 with D618..." 
(Edited to add one thing!) Early on in the project I searched for every trace of documentation on FF hacking, and came across this from an old board thread that Google had archived... --- Original info discovered by _Demo_ (I think) Maps are seperated into 2 sections... one section contains the Overworld map, the other section contains the rest of the maps (I call them standard maps). The overworld map is 256x256 tiles large, and each standard map is 64x64 tiles large. The overworld map is stored in the ROM starting at offset $4010 and ending at $7F50. The first 512 ($200) bytes are pointers... each pointer is 2 bytes and points to 1 row of tiles (so, $4010 points to the top row, $4012 points to the second row, etc, etc). The data pointed to is compressed map data (see below for how to decompress). To calculate the overworld pointers, you must subtract $4000 from the pointer's value to get the value pointed for. For example: "00 82" would point to $4210 (after byte-swapping, adding $10 for the header, and subtracting $4000) All the standard maps are stored between $10010 and $1C010. The first 122 ($7A) bytes are pointers... each pointer is 2 bytes and points to an entire map (not each individual row). Note that there are 61 standard maps total... I've thought about adding more... as there's room to do so in the map compression area... but there isn't enough room in other areas (like where all the palettes for the maps are listed). To calculate these pointers, just add $10000 to the value given by the pointer. For example: "80 00" would point to $10090 --- It seems like I'm looking right at the answer there, if I could just figure out how to find the warp effect at the beginning of the game and tell it to jump straight to one of those $10010+ bytes... (edited by DF Ash on 03-18-06 12:21 AM) |
|||
Rockman Shyguy  Since: 03-10-06 Last post: 6365 days Last view: 6298 days |
| ||
| Interesting.
Thats a neat idea you have there. I'll look into it and see if I can do it for you. If I can do it I'll post what bytes you have to change so you can add it to your hack. 
I'm going to focus on making it so you start the game inside Coneria Castle 2F. |
|||
|
DF Ash Goomba Since: 03-16-06 From: United States Last post: 6487 days Last view: 6487 days |
| ||
| Thank you! If you can figure it out, you'll definitely have an important place in the opening credits as the author of the starting position hack... much of the plot just won't work (or at least, it won't have the same punch) without a way to start off in a submap.
I've been trying to use FceuXD to narrow down the command (on the theory that it must happen when you push A on the screen that shows all four of your completed party members). I imagine it'd be a matter of taking the warp code from Coneria Castle 1F's stairs tile and then applying that same code to the start-game warp, but that's a very rough and newbish guess... 
The hack itself will end up being a total overhaul that'll take at least a month (more likely a few months), but I'll likely have enough put together to at least present the first section of the game (a sidequest that takes about the same amount of time as the Temple of Fiends) as a rough draft by next weekend. That's mostly done even now, save for the starting position hack necessary for the prologue section to work right. The name of the hack will be, barring any bolts of creative lightning between now and final release, "Final Fantasy: Shadows of Chaos." =) |
|||
Dr. Mario Leever   Since: 11-17-05 From: Pittsburgh, PA Last post: 6289 days Last view: 6289 days |
| ||
| I was working on a FF hack once (I cancelled it because I don't have enough time to finish it), and there's a couple of ideas you might be interested in. The first being the idea of making houses that you can enter in towns if you have enough caves/tiles to do it. What you'd do is make a door tile that would transport you to a point in a cave map, the cave map would be all house interiors, so you'd have to make a different door tile for each house, but it's just an idea. The second (and I'll have to dig up the notes, or you can if you feel like it) is making it so you can't change your party's classes or names. The data for it is in the old board, in a FF Hacking Q and A thread, so It's buried somewhere, but I remember it being pretty easy to do, when I get the time I can look for it for you if you're interested. | |||
|
DF Ash Goomba Since: 03-16-06 From: United States Last post: 6487 days Last view: 6487 days |
| ||
| The house idea is a really good one, and similar to something I have planned for some of the submap grids; at the very least, I might use that method to create internal structures for the inns and shops, the way the FF remakes and later games do. Thanks!
The party classes has been an issue: on one hand, I have a new set of classes that I'd like players to be able to choose between (three new classes, and the black mage, white mage and fighter are revamped slightly). On the other, the story requires that the party be led by a fighter, and it seems awkward to just have one character locked into place but all the others open. But then again, a simple line of text in the prologue screen could clue players into why it's like that, so I'll probably lock the lead character choice, but then leave the other three open... Hmm... on rereading those documents, they work by disabling the A & B button inputs completely, so that method wouldn't work. I'd hate to force a complete party and eliminate the replayability of trying out different class combos, but if it's necessary... |
|||
Dragonsbrethren   440  Since: 12-01-05 From: New Jersey Last post: 6475 days Last view: 6475 days |
| ||
| I think in that situation compromising your story a little to eliminate the need for a warrior is more important than eliminating party selection. | |||
|
DF Ash Goomba Since: 03-16-06 From: United States Last post: 6487 days Last view: 6487 days |
| ||
| Not when the story's written as thoroughly around one character as FF4 was Cecil. There's a whole lot of dialogue and plot that won't make sense if the player picks someg wierd combination like four white mages. I'll have to think about that...
(Edit: Okay, thought about it, and that character can be turned into an NPC. The class selection is saved!) (edited by DF Ash on 03-18-06 05:37 PM) |
|||
|
DF Ash Goomba Since: 03-16-06 From: United States Last post: 6487 days Last view: 6487 days |
| ||
| One more (and hopefully much simpler!) question: is there an easy way to switch the flag for the bridge to always on, so it's visible from the start of the game? I don't want to remove the opening text the first time it's crossed, just to avoid going through the "talk to the princess, get teleported, and then talk to the king" sequence needed to unlock it in the normal game. | |||
|
Dragonsbrethren 440 Since: 12-01-05 From: New Jersey Last post: 6475 days Last view: 6475 days |
| ||
| You'll have to try this as I never have but it should be posible to make any sprite build the bridge using FFHackster Companion. | |||
|
dormento Red Goomba Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6441 days Last view: 6288 days |
| ||
|
One more (and hopefully much simpler!) question: is there an easy way to switch the flag for the bridge to always on, so it's visible from the start of the game? I don't want to remove the opening text the first time it's crossed, just to avoid going through the "talk to the princess, get teleported, and then talk to the king" sequence needed to unlock it in the normal game. There's two wasy to go about that: 1) You can just allocate a normal overworld tile and copy the sprite of the bridge to this tile; 2) The show/hide bridge flag is actually an invisible plot item. Vystrix Nexoth and someone else (Gavin, iirc) discovered it a long time ago. You can get the doc at DES, romhacking.net and some other places. |
|||
|
DF Ash Goomba Since: 03-16-06 From: United States Last post: 6487 days Last view: 6487 days |
| ||
The second option sounds perfect, since I want the bridge and the intro screen to show up on the map without the preceding subquest (and I already know how to start the party off with specific items). But romhacking.net's got nothing on it, and I don't know what DES is... 
Yeah, swapping the sprites and text and working the triggers into the game's another option. Since there's nothing in the story that's supposed to create a bridge, I'd rather avoid any if-then links that could be spotted within the game; still, if nothing else, there's a way within the plot to trigger the bridge's creation. (Edit: Ah, I think I see what you mean. A wiki lists a hidden item that, if set to 01 or more, instantly triggers the bridge scene at the beginning of the game. I'll see if setting some of the bits around that offset make the bridge appear...) (edited by DF Ash on 03-21-06 06:37 PM) |
|||
|
dormento Red Goomba Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6441 days Last view: 6288 days |
| ||
| (Edit: Ah, I think I see what you mean. A wiki lists a hidden item that, if set to 01 or more, instantly triggers the bridge scene at the beginning of the game. I'll see if setting some of the bits around that offset make the bridge appear...)
That's it, exactly 
As for the first alternative, i don't think i made myself clear: you can just reserve a tile in the overworld tileset and draw a bridge, then just put it where you want. Most of the time, the simpler the better. |
|||
|
Rockman Shyguy Since: 03-10-06 Last post: 6365 days Last view: 6298 days |
| ||
| DF Ash, I haven't forgotten about this starting position hack. I have just been very busy with work and other things. As soon as I have the time and get around to it, I'll either post in this thread or I'll PM you. In the meantime good luck with your hack. |
|||
|
DF Ash Goomba Since: 03-16-06 From: United States Last post: 6487 days Last view: 6487 days |
| ||
| I understand completely, and thanks for working on it! For now, though, I can definitely keep myself busy with laying out the maps, setting and customizing the sprites, rewriting the dialogue, mapping out the conditional quests, modding the monsters and spells...
The only thing about just changing a tile (apart from this hack eventually needing every single spare tile the game has to offer) is that it won't allow the bridge scene to play out the first time the party crosses it. What I really need is to get the bridge on the map from the beginning, but uncrossed, in the same state as it is right after talking to the king. As Dragonsbrethren suggested, FF Companion (and even Hackster, to some extent) can swap out which sprite plays out the King's role, and what the dialogue says, but the variables of the bridge quest are constant: you have to talk to the "princess" and get teleported, then talk to the "king" to meet his condition for unlocking the bridge. However, I can rework the sprites, dialgoue and locations to fulfill those conditions without actually sending the heroes off to save the princess, so it can still work.
Edit just because I can't post a new message: interestingly, defeating Garland isn't really part of the bridge quest, and doesn't seem to trigger anything in the game. There's no prerequisite to rescuing the princess other than just talking to her, and that's the only condition needed for triggering the King to build the bridge. It's just the Temple of Fiends' layout that forces the player to go through Garland to get to the princess. (edited by DF Ash on 03-22-06 11:22 AM) (edited by DF Ash on 03-22-06 11:23 AM) |
|||
|
dormento Red Goomba Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6441 days Last view: 6288 days |
| ||
| What I really need is to get the bridge on the map from the beginning, but uncrossed, in the same state as it is right after talking to the king.
Will look into it as soon as i get back home. |
|||
|
Dragonsbrethren 440 Since: 12-01-05 From: New Jersey Last post: 6475 days Last view: 6475 days |
| ||
| Something I discovered long ago, the canal blocking sprite also triggers a bridge scene when walked across. | |||
|
DF Ash Goomba Since: 03-16-06 From: United States Last post: 6487 days Last view: 6487 days |
| ||
| That solves everything, thank you! The canal sprite is visible from the beginning of the game, a sidequest can later remove it (which actually works perfectly towards a plot point in the story), and the bridge scene plays when it's crossed... that's better than I'd hoped for! That also means that the princess/king conditions can be saved for a later sidequest, and there are no longer any hidden conditions that a player could uncover by not triggering the right sprite before reaching that point. Thanks again! |
| Pages: 1 2 3 | Add to favorites | Next newer thread | Next older thread |
| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - ROM Hacking - Final Fantasy 1's Starting Position |
| |
