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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Spiritual beliefs of the non-religious. |
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Rydain Sir Kibble Blaze Phoenix Runs with the Dragon Within                   Since: 11-18-05 From: State College, PA Last post: 6299 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| *Rydain blows a whistle and holds up a giant STOP sign
This thread needs a chill pill. Please discuss your differences in opinion civilly. If this thread continues to get more argumentative, I will close it for 24 hours to let things simmer down. |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES  Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| kutske. I've warned you. This is a DEBATE forum. Accept that you may not like where the thread goes. Stick around a few years, earn the trust and (relative) respect of the board and you too could one day moderate this particular segment of the board!
Clockworkz. You know the rules. Dropping the f-bomb is enough, but that outburst is totally unacceptable. That goes for you too kutske. |
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Clockworkz Birdon  Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| Yeah; I know. I apologize. It's just... when someone treats my religion with ignorance and ill feelings, I tend to get a bit antsy. I admit; I was outta line.
Anyway... I believe that if you adhere to a religion, you are being spiritual, knowing that you're basking in your religion's faith. It's as simple as that. I just don't think that it's possible to be spiritual but not religios, since the two go hand in hand  |
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Metal Man88 Gold axe It appears we have been transported to a time in which everything is on fire! Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| I am an athiest, although I do have some beliefs which seem to fall outside and below any universal religion, mainly because it isn't based too much on faith and mostly on self-determination.
I believe life is meaningless and that thusly we must assign a meaning to it ourselves. Furthermore, that people are reincarnated. At least, I sure hope they are, it'd be a waste to have only one go at life. Regardless of that, the major power in the world is of human will. Belief in oneself is the ultimate power, in my mind. If I believe I can do it, it usually helps me, regardless of my actual ability. This isn't so much a spiritual boost as it is a morale boost, somewhat like DnD. Furthermore, other religions draw upon the collective human will of those who believe in it. It's sort of enbulous beyond this point, though, because I've never been religious. Claiming that no true religion has come and told me it was real in the flesh, I don't happen to believe in any of them, save for the fringe things. I respect all religions, as long as they don't involve obvious evil (you know, ritual sacrifice of unwilling people and that sort) and believe that one must choose their own path to spirituality. I do not think that I am right and that everyone else is wrong; rather, I have my opinion and they have theirs. The truth is hidden from us all; unless one belief or religion is scientifically proven to be true and made overwhelmingly 'real' in some miracle or event, I shall remain self-guided and place all faith in myself, so that if I'm the last person in existance, I will still be going. What I hate most is when religions do bad things in the name of good, regardless of belief. There is a thin line between faith and fanaticism, and some people fall too far from their own precepts. I advise that those who believe in any one doctrine to read all there is (within reason) about it, lest they believe in something which they know not much of. I advise general goodwill and world peace, as war only kills people. No one religion or belief can be considered 'right', in my mind. Science, of course, reigns high up there, although once again one must be careful. I hate it when religion interferes with proper science; but wish that government, instead, would prevent the more outlandish things without any religious sentiment attached. I could go on very long, but those are my beliefs, and you are free to take them any way you wish.  |
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Kutske Since: 11-19-05 Last post: 6642 days Last view: 6642 days |
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| Religion was never forced on me growing up. I tried Christianity for awhile, but realized that I was only following it out of fear for what might happen if I didn't. After studying many religions, I came to the conclusion that none of them suited me in the very least. I then began to question the very concept of religion. Why did I need someone telling me how to live? Why did I need some big scary diety looking over my shoulder? Why did I need to participate in ultimately fruitless rituals? I didn't. And I needed no sense of community or belonging, either, so I decided to shrug off religion for good.
I like to refer to a quote whenever anyone asks me what religion I belong to. Roger Smith in Big O, Act Sixteen narrates, "Now, I'm no atheist, but I'm also not naive." That about sums me up. To be more specific, I'm not sure but also don't care whether this universe was created or has always been. I'm not sure and also don't care if there is or are a single or multiple gods or goddesses. I also don't think that if there is a god, that this god necessarily had to be the creator of the universe. Maybe god is a bystander, an observer, who's to say? I do believe that there is a cycle to life, that things must die in order for other things to live, and I do believe there is some intangible and unique quality that makes each life unique. Call it a soul or a spirit if you wish, I'm disconcerned with labels. I'm not sure if this special quality is eternal or not, but perhaps in the same way that my body will decompose and provide nutrients for plant life, my sense of self will carry on after I die as well. Basically, I don't care because I can never be for certain. If I have to preform some silly dance or put money in a collection bin every week to attain eternal happiness after death, then I don't want it. Eternal bliss would be boring, anyway; sadness and grief are what allow us to define happiness and joy, you can't have one without the other. I'll concern myself with life-after-death once I get there. Note that I see morality as utterly different and seperate from spiritual belief, so I won't elaborate on any morals that I hold true. You could take a gander at my introduction on the Newbie Forum, to get an idea. Clockworkz: Don't fuck with me. Why don't you go and check out Aren Hiscock's book "Eclectic Wicca for Life'? Taken straight from Wikipedia. I am proud of my religion, and you know what? Maybe, Kutske, I think your religion is idiotic and absurd, but I sure as hell won't be a dick about it and post it in a public place where other people that may be of the same religion can see it, and thus, start a shit fight, which is what I believe you're trying to escalate this to. The next time you have a vague assumption of a religion (that you probably know nothing about, and base your "ideas" off negative propaganda) that crosses your mind, you'll hold your tongue and make a lot less enemies. Wow, don't know where all that came from. Just to clear a few things up... 1) I don't belong to any religion. 2) Pride in religion is what starts wars. Pride should be taken in one's accomplishments, I think, not one's religion/race/nationality/etc. 3) I have no opinion on Wicca or any other religion (okay, maybe I have a few opinions on Christianity), I don't see why you'd explode over an innocuous joke. 4) I'm trying specifically to avoid fights, not instigate them. I've repeated four or five times that I'm curious as to the non-religious but none-the-less spiritual beliefs of others. So anyone who's Christian or Jew or Muslim or Wiccan or Buddhist or Satanist or whatever really isn't helping the topic along by announcing their religion. Mr. Z: kutske. I've warned you. This is a DEBATE forum. Accept that you may not like where the thread goes. Stick around a few years, earn the trust and (relative) respect of the board and you too could one day moderate this particular segment of the board! *shrugs* You're the boss. I still thinking announcing one's religious affiliation in a topic about non-religious beliefs is useless, but I guess I don't make the rules. Mr. Z: Clockworkz. You know the rules. Dropping the f-bomb is enough, but that outburst is totally unacceptable. That goes for you too kutske. I'm kind of...dense. Could you PM me and quote specific passages from my posts in this topic that you find inapropriate to the forum? Because I didn't do anything as obvious as drop the f-bomb, so I can't be sure what you're warning me against unless you get specific about it. Clockworkz: Yeah; I know. I apologize. It's just... when someone treats my religion with ignorance and ill feelings, I tend to get a bit antsy. I admit; I was outta line. Well I apologize if you were terribly offended by what I said. I intended it as a harmless joke. Actually, two of friends are Wiccan, I don't have some chip on my shoulder or anything. |
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Deleted User Banned    Since: 05-08-06 Last post: None Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by Kutske Ritual... What was that again? hmm... what Christian practices rituals? As far as needing a higher power telling what's right from wrong, is to keep the unfortunate people who disobey from getting themselves into 'deep' trouble. Which when you say Christianity could you be more specific? |
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Wurl Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6336 days Last view: 6336 days |
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| A ritual can be prayer on certain date or the best example is communion. Remember, communoin does involve drinking blood. | |||
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Kutske Since: 11-19-05 Last post: 6642 days Last view: 6642 days |
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Bookworm: Ritual... What was that again? hmm... what Christian practices rituals? All "true" Christians, apparently. I forget where exactly, but somewhere in the Bible it instructs that a woman kill two doves after her menstrual cycle to "purify" her body. That's ritual sacrifice. And by the way, failure to make this sacrifice means you can't get into heaven. There's other such examples all throughout the Bible. Any religious ceremony is a ritual. For example, Sunday Mass, communion, confession, singing hymns, reading psalms, these are all rituals. Bookworm: Which when you say Christianity could you be more specific? Catholicism is what I knew best, but as much as they want to claim so, few Christian sects are really that different. Except for the out-there ones, like those ones where they let snakes bite them, convinced that the Lord will cure them of their wounds. Wurl: A ritual can be prayer on certain date or the best example is communion. Remember, communoin does involve drinking blood. If I may, grape juice is teh s uck. I prefer actual blood. Maybe I'm morbid or I have some juvenile vampire fantasy, but the feeling of gulping down fast a pint of blood is exhilarating. |
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Deleted User Banned Since: 05-08-06 Last post: None Last view: 6295 days |
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Wurl A ritual can be prayer on certain date or the best example is communion. Remember, communoin does involve drinking blood. It's a way to show faith surrounding the blood that hath been spilt. Clockworkz: Don't fuck with me. Why don't you go and check out Aren Hiscock's book "Eclectic Wicca for Life'? Taken straight from Wikipedia. I am proud of my religion, and you know what? Maybe, Kutske, I think your religion is idiotic and absurd, but I sure as hell won't be a dick about it and post it in a public place where other people that may be of the same religion can see it, and thus, start a shit fight, which is what I believe you're trying to escalate this to. The next time you have a vague assumption of a religion (that you probably know nothing about, and base your "ideas" off negative propaganda) that crosses your mind, you'll hold your tongue and make a lot less enemies. Thought I'd bring this up, it has luzi's mark written all over it. I know someone who was buddest for a while, she is not any more. I believe she is on the path which will end at Christianity. |
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Kutske Since: 11-19-05 Last post: 6642 days Last view: 6642 days |
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| What's Iuzi's mark? | |||
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| Used in some denominations as short-form for Lucifer. Roman god of learning :o Now a days it just means Satan. | |||
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Clockworkz Birdon Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| Thank you for saying I have a mark of Satan. I appreciate it, Bookworm. | |||
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Thexare Metal battleaxe Off to better places  Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| Wow. Ignorance never goes out of style.
In other words, Bookworm, I would strongly suggest backing off on the anti-Wicca comments (specifically, it having been defined, "luzi's mark") before you have an angry mod on your case - offending one normal user is bad. Offending one staff member is worse. Very unintelligent. Now then, on the subject at hand... Both of my parents are Wiccan, and my grandmother is a very open-minded Christian. I'd love to say I didn't have religion forced on me, but for a while I lived with my other, less-openminded grandmother. Figure it out for yourself. 
I suppose I once believed in the existence of a god, but... now, well, my current views of religion are quite likely to offend people, so I'll just leave that alone. I believe that no god exists and that this life is all we know we have. I believe there are no absolute right and wrong (because again, no god), but there are certain things that most people can accept as being wrong (like murder). That should be all I need to explain, really. (edited by Tamarin Calanis on 12-01-05 02:52 PM) |
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Krusty Toenail Poppy Bros. Jr  Since: 11-17-05 From: North Carolina Last post: 6568 days Last view: 6568 days |
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I don't really bother myself with religions. I just treat others how I want to be treated and try to live without any regrets. I also believe in karma, reason why i haven't beat the crap out of anyone since 1st grade. Although when some people hear that I don't belive in God or Christianity, etc. they tend to treat me like I'm a mass-murderer and bad mouth me  . |
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Kutske Since: 11-19-05 Last post: 6642 days Last view: 6642 days |
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| Well, KT, you have to admit, there haven't been many famous philanthropists or philosophers or healers or such that were atheist. I have an atheist friend whose mission in life is to do something majorly good for the world around him. He wants to prove to the world that you don't have to fear a fiery demise at the hands of a murderous god to do good, or to be a good person. I do so hope he succeeds. | |||
Snow Tomato Snap Dragon  Since: 12-31-05 From: NYC Last post: 6315 days Last view: 6301 days |
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Originally posted by Clockworkz Yes, I'm a Wiccan with Buddhist beliefs... for the most part. It works very well. I was born into a roman-catholic household.. and forced into baptism, communion and confirmation. After that, I was a bit taken aback by the thought of thousands of people being told what to believe. I felt that religion was something you should just know, not be taught really. So I closed myself off from everything I had been taught and came to develop my own theories about how the world ticks. My belief is that if someone went out of their way to place you here on earth, you were told why beforehand... and you know you'd come back to where you came from. We're meant to learn and grow here... and we do, alot. So my belief is that if you look deep down into your soul, and you get a grasp of what's going on around you.. you'll understand religion better and be able to feel where you came from and where you're headed. Both on earth and.. after. What I came up with are the basic ideals of buddhism.. and something else. I'm not quite sure what. Basically, I believe in reincarnation. I believe that souls travel in groups, and that there are certain people you are meant to meet in life. You have to learn something from them. I believe in the spiritual plane, and the material plane.. and that you cycle from one to the other.. until you've experienced every single feeling, and every single experience possible. What you did "bad" in your life doesn't carry over though.. you're supposed to learn from it. Eventually when you know everything you'll remain in the spiritual state, which is free, relaxing.. it's our natural state, how we're meant to be. Bodies are kind of... unnatural for us as spiritual beings. I also believe that the spirits who have earned the right to stay in the spiritual state, can communicate with us and guide us. They can be silent, and you may not be aware of them.. but they'll give you guidance in ways you wouldn't notice if you weren't really looking. It's something I can really feel, like it is real. In my heart of hearts.. deep down.. I can feel it resonating in my body. It gives me the strength to live every day to the fullest. Religion should be personal. In no way am I condeming someone elses beliefs with my belief that this is real and true. Something may be real and true to you.. and that's okay. We're here to learn and grow. In the end, when you die.. alls you have is your soul. There's no hate, greed or lust.. that's left here on earth. So, no need to be hateful or greedy.. or even jealous. Although, through those emotions... we do learn things about consequences and hurting others. The lesson usually is.. don't, it's not worth it. My point was, there's no room for religious hatred or condemnation. I get persecuted when I stand up for what I believe in, my religious beliefs. For just exp Every religion is a different path to the same ending. Just know that, and everything will be alright. There's no need to argue over the ending.. because when we get there we will know. So yes, there are people who have developed their own beliefs here. And this might be bumping, but I don't care. It'll open it up to more responses.. I'm very interested to see what other people who haven't seen the thread have to say. |
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Ryoku Tooky Since: 01-07-06 From: sandiego CA. Last post: 6435 days Last view: 6435 days |
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| My beleifs are pretty simple. I am a christian, and I beleive there is a god and a devil. I also believe that the biblical stories in the bible are true. And I believe god died for our sins. And thats pretty much it. |
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