 |
| Register | Login | |||||
 |
Main
| Memberlist
| Active users
| Calendar
| Chat
| Online users Ranks | FAQ | ACS | Stats | Color Chart | Search | Photo album |
|
| | ||
|
| Register | Login | |||||
|
Main
| Memberlist
| Active users
| Calendar
| Chat
| Online users Ranks | FAQ | ACS | Stats | Color Chart | Search | Photo album |
|
| | ||
| 0 users currently in General Chat. |
| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - General Chat - Lack of common sense (re: post layouts) |
New poll |  |  |
| Pages: 1 2 | Add to favorites | Next newer thread | Next older thread |
| User | Post | ||
Disch Red Cheep-cheep                    Since: 12-10-05 Last post: 6576 days Last view: 6576 days |
| ||
| I don't typically post in this forum (in fact I never have before, and likely never will again) -- I usually hide out in Programming / Rom Hacking. Truth be told I was never the biggest fan of these boards because I found the average intelligence level to be, well... lower than normal. That seemed less noticable in Programming/Rom Hacking ... but now that's changing; tomfoolerly and stupidity are seeping in even the "intelligent" forums. Programming hasn't gotten so bad yet -- but ROM hacking seems to have exploded.
It's not so much that people are dumb -- so much that they lack common sense. I really wonder what some of these people are thinking -- or even IF they were thinking. I don't mind questions -- I mean people asking newbie questions is fine... we all have to start somewhere. It's more of how the people come across. For example... one of my primary complaints with these yokels is their post layout. One of the thing this board has in spades is users with completely stupid post layouts. I thought I'd rant about some of the common problems with post layouts and what people should avoid doing. Having a good post layout is good -- but having a dumb post layout makes you look like a douchebag and makes your posts difficult/impossible to read, and could blind the other posters. Hell -- half the time I just skip over posts made by people with stupid layouts. Things to avoid in your post layout: 1) Don't have your BG and text be a similar color. I know this seems like common sense -- but many people don't seem to get it. Don't have your text color the same as your BG color or your post will be hard to read. No joke... I just read a post like this: [Example] . Seriously -- where was that guy's brain? There are times it's less subtle than that though. For instance a person may have text which is plainly visible on MOST of the BG, but there are patches of the BG where the color conflicts with the text. I don't see much of this anymore, which is good. But it brings me to my next point: 2) Background images should be subtle, not bright and outstanding. People don't read your posts to see your background image -- they read your post for the text. The text should be what stands out. Again... "duh"... but even though it seems obvious many people feel the layout is more important than the post. A common noob problem is to just take an image out of X game and tile it as a background. 3) Post headers should not contain text! A stupid "I'm so-and-so and this is what I have to say:" line at the start of every one of a person's posts really wants to make me fucking stab that person in the face. There are some layouts where the text is decorative and obviously seperated from the post and that's fine -- but 99% of the time that's not the case. I remember a long time ago there was some goon -- I think his name was Ziff or something -- he actually had "I created ZLUOJSLDKJOAJSDF..." and I'm not kidding or exaggerating -- but he had 4 lines of completely nonsensical garbage text. I don't know if he was stoned, clueless, or just fucking stupid -- but I wanted to stab him. Hard. 4) No flash. Give me a break -- you know who you are. Use your head -- I shouldn't even have to mention this. 5) Excessive white space should be avoided. Here is an example: [Example]. Why is there a 2 inch gap between his sig and the end of his post? Aside from that (and the cutoff text at the top) this layout would be good. 6) Sigs bigger than your post. If your sig takes up more space than your average post -- it's too big. In that same vein... 7) DON'T HAVE A MILLION USERBARS. Userbars are fucking stupid to begin with -- but having 100 of them in your sig just amplifies the stupidity. Especially "no shit" userbars like "acmlmboard user". I mean DUH. Fucking hell grow a brain. 8) No scrollbars. If your layout requires or uses its own scrollbar, it's a poor layout. No exceptions. When the layout makes the post harder to read, you're better off with no layout at all. Custom scrollbars make posts harder to read. 9) Avoid fixed-size text areas. This goes hand in hand with #8 -- if your text area is dynamically sized (like it should be) you can avoid scrollbars and your layout will always be big enough to hold your biggest post. If your layout is fixed size, you end up restraining the size of your post. Here's an example: [Example]. Notice all that wasted space on the right side where the layout just seems to stop? wtf. It's like he told the layout to only use 50% of the available space. An even more extreme example is this one: [Example]. Note again the horrible waste of space... but more importantly... HOW THE FUCK DOES HE EXPECT TO HAVE ANY ROOM FOR A POST? I mean seriously -- look at that tiny fucking space he uses for a text area. He can't get 10 words in without it wrapping... and he only has 10 or so lines. Where is his brain? 10) I can't even believe I have to mention this one -- but don't have a montrously stretched out and stupid looking image at the top of your post. [Example]. I mean come on. How could they possibly have thought that was a good idea? This person is also breaking #6. Notice how the actual post content only takes up about 1/6th of the whole post? This is by no means a complete list, but that's all I'm going to mention for now. EDIT -- yes I'm aware you can turn layouts off and/or block layouts by user. Don't bother pointing that out. I'm trying to eliminate the stupidity here, not mask it. (edited by Disch on 02-20-06 01:10 PM) |
|||
Danielle     6730 Administratorrrr HELLO THERE   Since: 11-17-05 From: California Rate me ^_^ Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6296 days |
| ||
| Actually, you can't block certain layouts at the moment. You can disable them all, I believe, but that's no fun.
I find it annoying too. We're working on some plans to make it easier for people to have good layouts... hopefully that continues. There is a userbar rule. Staff tries to enforce it, but sadly, we can't check every single member's layout every second of the day. If someone has more than 3 userbars in their sig, send a PM to staff. We'll take care of that. The same goes for obvious crap layouts. If someone has a layout that we all know shouldn't be in existance, tell staff. Or if you'd rather not, tell the person themselves. Maybe they'll be willing to change it. Just be friendly. There is no rule (and there never will be) about not allowing scrollbar layouts. For some people, they work better with what they want in the layout, and as long as the sig isn't so big that it causes the scroll with 2 lines, then there's really nothing wrong. I'm not a fan either, but if that's what people want, so be it. =\ Post headers. If it runs into your actual post, we will remove it. If you absolutely have to have text (it would be great if nobody did) then make it painfully obvious that it's not part of your post. An < About textbox size, there really isn't a limit, but more what looks good. If it's so small that only a few words can fit on each line... make it bigger. So in essence, I agree with you. However, you can't control all of those things, nor can I. Some of them can be taken care of, and if that's the case, just let me, or anyone else on staff, know. I'm not sure if I should close this or not.  |
|||
Snow Tomato Snap Dragon  Since: 12-31-05 From: NYC Last post: 6317 days Last view: 6303 days |
| ||
| That would be why I changed my post layout after like.. a day. It looked stupid.
I think it's not so much the visual presentation of the posts... but morso the content of the actual posts. But who knows... that could be just me. |
|||
emcee Red Super Koopa Since: 11-20-05 Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6296 days |
| ||
| I don't think the quality of someones layout is as much of a reflection on their intelligence as you seem to think.
Really though, I think you should just calm down. Yes, some people's layouts are hard to read, but I'm sure we'll all live. |
|||
|
Alastor Fearless Moderator Hero  Since: 11-17-05 From: An apartment by DigiPen, Redmond, Washington Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6296 days |
| ||
| Yeah, a bad layout isn't exactly going to kill me in my sleep... But it's still damned annoying. That argument rather fails, because in the vast majority of cases it would be amazingly easy to fix the crap this stuff causes. It's caused by the poster in question simply being inept with HTML and CSS. When I have to highlight someone's text to read it then that is just... No. I should never, ever have to do that.
Edit: By the by, I requested ghettoyouth be stripped of his layout a few days ago. Nothing has come of that, unfortunately. (edited by Alastor the Stylish on 02-20-06 02:47 PM) |
|||
Kasumi-Astra Flurry Since: 11-18-05 From: Sheffield England Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6296 days |
| ||
Originally posted by Disch Ooooh, gimme five minutes and I'll find you loads that are worse 
Most of those points are things that have been going around for years. I remember the scrollbar vs no scrollbar, and that one ended pretty much in a stalemate. I don't think it honestly makes a layout automatically bad- as with all layouts it depends on how it's used. The ones I've made left enough space for most of the posts I've ever posted. On the super rare occasion of a massive post, I delete the layout from the post. If you have a teeny-weeny box for text, you're asking for trouble, though. Why bother coming in here telling people how to post? More to the point, what makes you think that the users in here are any more or less stupid as you? One big happy family, everybody! Group hug, NOW! >=( (edited by Kasumi-Astra on 02-20-06 03:01 PM) |
|||
|
Danielle 6730 Administratorrrr HELLO THERE Since: 11-17-05 From: California Rate me ^_^ Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6296 days |
| ||
Originally posted by Kasumi-Astra Hehe, reminds me of those Acmlm map things. Everyone is in their little cliques. It would be quite a sight to see them hug. Does anyone still have that on their comp?  |
|||
Trapster King Dedede Since: 11-19-05 From: Sweden Last post: 6404 days Last view: 6297 days |
| ||
| *Grouphugs Danielle*
What? 
And what´s those Acmlm map things? Cliques? |
|||
Sukasa Birdo Not quite as active as before. Xkeeper supporter Xk > ||bass I IP Banned myself! Twice!  Since: 11-17-05 From: Somewhere over there Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6296 days |
| ||
| I agree with you disch. I find those sorts of things to be quite annoying, mostly. The only one I don't fully agree with you on is the userbar subject. two or three is fine for me, but I hate any more than that in a post. That's what Bios are for. | |||
Ailure Mr. Shine I just want peace...  Since: 11-17-05 From: Sweden Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6296 days |
| ||
| Well, truth to be told... I have post layouts off. Becuse I wind up getting annoyed at them. :/ I do make sure to remove my layout as soon my post is somewhat big with pictures and stuff, as people seem to hate scrollbar layouts.
About the third point, I seem to recall it being common for three years ago than today. I kind of liked the way Ziff did it xD, but most of the time it's just plain annoying. :/ |
|||
Skydude Armos Knight  Since: 02-18-06 From: Stanford, CA Last post: 6570 days Last view: 6570 days |
| ||
| What a long way we've come, though. At least now most people have their tables at least marginally right. And it seems a lot of people are going with a rather simple elegant style...I chose that one too...that really gets across the point that simple is good. Your post should indeed be the main element of any post, not your layout. A nice layout can add some good atmosphere, but people need to remember that if it's really complex, people might like it once, but not every time you post. | |||
Koneko Plasma Whisp  Since: 11-17-05 From: Tartarus. We get faster internet than you. Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6296 days |
| ||
| So this was a good idea for a thread, but it was poorly executed. For one thing, there was waaaay too much fucking. It was generally so aggressive in nature that people could quite likely keep their layouts the way they are, or even deliberately make sucky ones, just out of spite for your attitude. I felt a rebellious urge to, anyway.
Oh. People here have below-average intelligence, you say. Wow. I could hazard a guess that either you haven't been around the internet much, or you didn't start paying attention to stupidity until you came here. So... I get annoyed by people's layouts. Yeah, we need blocklayout back. But I fail to see what this thread could achieve. But completely aside from that, a little while ago I had a layout with a marquee in it. This is a good time to ask, I think, does that piss people off? I also had four userbars in it, because they were being marquee'd. So just, was that layout sucky? |
|||
|
Danielle 6730 Administratorrrr HELLO THERE Since: 11-17-05 From: California Rate me ^_^ Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6296 days |
| ||
This is why I was considering closing this earlier. 
He was simply making a point. You don't need to get on his case about it, any of you. Like I said, if you have a problem with someone's layout, ask a staffer about it. We'll see what we can do. In short, deal with it or block all layouts until we have blocklayout.php back. And damn it, somebody find that image of the people on Acmlm's in their cliques.
Disch, sorry. =\ PM me if you want this open again. |
|||
HyperHacker Star Mario Finally being paid to code in VB! If only I still enjoyed that. <_< Wii #7182 6487 4198 1828 Since: 11-18-05 From: Canada, w00t! My computer's specs, if anyone gives a damn. STOP TRUNCATING THIS >8^( Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6297 days |
| ||
| Listen to this man! There is NO EXCUSE for having a shitty layout with text that runs into the post like this:
Lol I'm a level 39 
Fire Snake and I think pie is awesomeHow do you hack the ow? If you must use your stats and rank in your layout, do something creative and put them out of the way. Also notice how your rank has a line break in it; it looks stupid when used this way. Simple CSS can remove the break, text and/or image. This is also really annoying. See how you have to scroll to read it all? This is even worse if I decided to post screenshots of something:
   
See how annoying that is? Viewing the images becomes nearly impossible. Some people edit their post and remove the layout for posts containing large images - THIS DOES NOT WORK. Those who use the Auto-Updating option will still see the layout. If your layout has to scroll: 1) Rethink the design. Use an image that tiles well. If it's simply a generic background, here's a tip: Open it in mspaint or whatever, double the width and height, copy it, and paste it flipped horizontally at the right, vertically at the bottom, and both at the bottom right. This creates a tileable image. Don't do this with huge images, as they'll be 4 times as big. 2) Make some minor tweaks to allow stretching. It's not hard to make most images stretchable. You simply need to tile a small part of the image. I had some old layouts that did this very well (although the image was far too big and ugly due to filesize, but that's another story). Fixed widths are also bad. Notice how there's a lot of unused space to the right that that box could fill. Use percentages! Here's another thing that's annoying (highlight it):
Also, notice the size of that image. There are two very important factors to consider: Dimensions and file size. While the image is 800x600, it's only 17K, which should load pretty quick on all but the suckiest connections. An image with a huge file size is not good. A huge image, like your favourite 1280x1024 Dragon Ball Z wallpaper, is also usually not a good image to use in a layout. Even if its file size is small, chances are it's much bigger than your post area, thus looking like crap. (Also: animated GIFs with 400000 frames are going to be huge. This applies to avatars and minipics too.) And for God's sake DO NOT USE HUGE IMAGES IN YOUR HEADER, SIG, OR BESIDE YOUR POST! This is an example of how not to use a large image:
If you can't see why this is bad, please go jump in front of a fast-moving bus. EDIT BY ALASTOR: I shrunk the image because it was stretching the tables in 1024x768. Just imagine that it's twice the size it is now both horizontally and vertically. Another semi-common problem: The Terminal font DOES NOT SCALE in many browsers. Can you read this? Probably not! Fixedsys looks just as good. And of course, if someone views your post in a non-Microsoft OS, chances are they have no such font and the effect is ruined anyway. Also, nobody cares about your HP/MP/etc. Unless those status images work into your layout very well, put them in your bio. It's also important to consider how much processing power your layout requires. Abuse of translucency can really bog down a browser. Flash? Only if it's really small. Java? Forget it. Embedded music and/or video? DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE. Regarding CSS: There are good and bad ways to use CSS in a layout. DO NOT use . If your server or the viewer's Internet connection is acting up and the CSS doesn't load, many browsers will stop loading everything else to wait for it. Yes, this is stupid. No, abusing it as a form of protest won't change anything. Do this: And, make sure to use element names that don't conflict with the board or other layouts. Prepending your username or ID number is a good way to do this. This is especially important if you decide to copy someone else's layout (which may or may not get you yelled at) - you must change the element names, or they'll conflict and make a mess. Having a stable, fast host is also important. Also make sure your layout doesn't make [ Finally, remember that you are not writing an HTML page. You are writing part of an HTML page. and tags have no place in layouts, and ensure that your layout doesn't break tables. It's not exactly difficult to look in your bio, or make a quick test post. If the page suddenly looks like crap, you screwed up! If you can't fix it, remove it. Don't just leave it and say you'll fix it when you figure out how. It ruins the entire thread. (edited by Alastor the Stylish on 02-20-06 11:48 PM) |
|||
|
Tarale 2710 Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!! Persona non grata Since: 11-17-05 From: Adelaide, Australia Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6296 days |
| ||
| I agree that there are a lot of poor layouts, or layouts that have been poorly executed. I'm sure I've made my fair share of them too.
I don't mind too much except for the cases where things are broken, unreadable, or blindingly ugly/bright. Scroll layouts irk me, but thankfully most people don't say enough to make me have to scroll so I'm not too annoyed with that. I think a lot of people need to put more thought into their layouts. It seems to me that a few are slapped together with little or no thought, and it certainly shows. |
|||
asdf Link's Awakening ಠ_ಠ  Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6298 days Last view: 6296 days |
| ||
Originally posted by Danielle It is if you want to have a large number of posts per page. Less loading time, plus it's faster overall. Besides, it makes the board seem a lot simpler rather than having 201 or so different styles of posting around. You don't have to adjust your way of reading for every other post.
(besides, I don't have the willpower to make a layout, nor do I have anything to put in it anyhow) |
|||
|
Tarale 2710 Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!! Persona non grata Since: 11-17-05 From: Adelaide, Australia Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6296 days |
| ||
Disabling all layouts is great if you're on dialup or if your high speed internet is currently being packet-shaped down to really slow cause of your excessive bittorrenting 
I'm currently under my quota this month so I gets to load the pictures (edited by Tarale on 02-20-06 09:36 PM) |
|||
Valcion Knuckle Joe too much high power man  Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6296 days |
| ||
| PROTIP:There is an option to turn layouts off. or block layouts
WHO IS THE ONE THAT IS LACKING COMMON SENSE NOW GEE I WONDER (edited by Exploding Shark! on 02-20-06 10:05 PM) |
|||
|
Metal Man88 Gold axe It appears we have been transported to a time in which everything is on fire! Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6296 days |
| ||
| Having been the victim of people's bad layouts (read: incorrect CSS inclusion tag forcing me to browse through certain topics by the source, I can't help but agree with this. Being able to use HTML on this board is a huge privledge, and I can't help but see it being taken away if people use it to spread nonsensical stuff or slow down the board for poor, poor 56k users. | |||
|
Alastor Fearless Moderator Hero Since: 11-17-05 From: An apartment by DigiPen, Redmond, Washington Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6296 days |
| ||
Originally posted by Metal Man88Let me guess... You use lololol. And I never had problems going through the board with layouts enabled back when I had 56k. |
| Pages: 1 2 | Add to favorites | Next newer thread | Next older thread |
| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - General Chat - Lack of common sense (re: post layouts) |
| |
![[Example]](http://slick.panicus.org/bad01.jpg){kind=link}
![[Example]](http://slick.panicus.org/bad02.jpg){kind=link}
![[Example]](http://slick.panicus.org/bad03.png){kind=link}
![[Example]](http://slick.panicus.org/bad04.jpg){kind=link}
![[Example]](http://slick.panicus.org/bad05.jpg){kind=link}