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Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - Femine's Corner - Sexual orientation. What a load of bull. New poll | |
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Ziff
B2BB
BACKTOBASICSBITCHES


 





Since: 11-18-05
From: A room

Last post: 6296 days
Last view: 6296 days
Posted on 04-26-06 09:53 PM Link | Quote
What he said was

"Heh, Ziff, but you made it about tolerance and acceptance. When it was originally about classification. I fail to see where you got the ideas that Silvershield or anyone else was being intolerant."

That statement was in reference to a quoted point in my post. What I was talking about was your reference to political correctness and said that accepting people and tolerating them wasn't part of political correctness. Most right-wingers/conservatives will decry those that attack homophobia or racism as being too PC, or something along those lines. I made that statement to insure that no one was going to begin the "YOU'RE PC...No, YOU'RE PC" game.

As for "Don't make it out to sound like I'm in denial or something. I would hardly consider myself homophobic, that's for sure, but I also fail to see any words of mine that would give that impression in the first place."

Alright, now let me see this mentality in future posts so that I'll have the ability to reevaluate my said position.
Vyper

Kodondo
Raging Venom








Since: 11-18-05
From: Final Fantasy Fire

Last post: 6314 days
Last view: 6314 days
Posted on 04-26-06 09:56 PM Link | Quote
You still havn't answered my question, Ziff.
Skydude

Armos Knight








Since: 02-18-06
From: Stanford, CA

Last post: 6570 days
Last view: 6570 days
Posted on 04-26-06 09:57 PM Link | Quote
I also find it rather hypocritical that earlier in the thread you were talking about people playing the victim of being accused of exactly the things you've been accusing people of just today!
Silvershield

580








Since: 11-19-05
From: Emerson, New Jersey

Last post: 6309 days
Last view: 6297 days
Posted on 04-26-06 09:57 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Plus Sign Abomination
That statement was in reference to a quoted point in my post. What I was talking about was your reference to political correctness and said that accepting people and tolerating them wasn't part of political correctness. Most right-wingers/conservatives will decry those that attack homophobia or racism as being too PC, or something along those lines. I made that statement to insure that no one was going to begin the "YOU'RE PC...No, YOU'RE PC" game.
Being PC doesn't mean being tolerant, it means using stupid, sterile language to describe something that can be described more bluntly. Describing something bluntly isn't always meant to offend the person being described, it's sometimes just because a person doesn't feel like doing verbal acrobatics to express a simple idea. When I call somebody black, it's not intended to offend them; it's simply easier than using that useless phrase "African-American."

Originally posted by Plus Sign Abomination
Alright, now let me see this mentality in future posts so that I'll have the ability to reevaluate my said position.
No need, because you can already see it in any of my past posts.
Sinfjotle
Lordly? No, not quite.








Since: 11-17-05
From: Kansas

Last post: 6298 days
Last view: 6297 days
Posted on 04-26-06 10:10 PM Link | Quote
I thought of a nice metaphor for PC, but bear with me, it might suck.

PC is like a car crash between a bus and a small car. The bus levels the car of course, but because so much of the force was distributed through the car, no one was really harmed.

Now, replace the bus (PC) with a bullet. The bullet may fly through the car, killing someone, or it may completely miss. It's all luck.


It needs some revision.


Anyways, Silvershield, I do get a homophobic feel from what you type. I can't point out an example where you said "I hate gay people" or where you really implied it, but after reading all your posts, it really does seem like you think gay people are lesser people who are in the wrong.
Silvershield

580








Since: 11-19-05
From: Emerson, New Jersey

Last post: 6309 days
Last view: 6297 days
Posted on 04-26-06 10:16 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Dracoon
Anyways, Silvershield, I do get a homophobic feel from what you type. I can't point out an example where you said "I hate gay people" or where you really implied it, but after reading all your posts, it really does seem like you think gay people are lesser people who are in the wrong.
If I've neither said it outright nor even implied it, how do you get that feeling?
Vyper

Kodondo
Raging Venom








Since: 11-18-05
From: Final Fantasy Fire

Last post: 6314 days
Last view: 6314 days
Posted on 04-26-06 10:20 PM Link | Quote
Examples are your friend!
Sinfjotle
Lordly? No, not quite.








Since: 11-17-05
From: Kansas

Last post: 6298 days
Last view: 6297 days
Posted on 04-26-06 10:24 PM Link | Quote
No, because heterosexuality is the "norm" and, as such, acts as a sort of control group. It describes the overwhelming majority of America's population and, even so, appears as a neutral rather than an influence in one direction or the other. However, since the homosexual issue has yet to be settled here in America, it is still politically charged (as was pointed out earlier) and so it carries with it the sense of a teacher imposing a political or moral standard on his students.



This gives it...
Hawksun

Red Koopa








Since: 04-06-06
From: Canada

Last post: 6517 days
Last view: 6517 days
Posted on 04-26-06 10:26 PM Link | Quote
Then, being out of the norm is not necessarily pejorative per se, depending on the point of view of course. So I don't think Silver meant that as derogatory. (My two cents, don't hurt me please)
Silvershield

580








Since: 11-19-05
From: Emerson, New Jersey

Last post: 6309 days
Last view: 6297 days
Posted on 04-26-06 10:29 PM Link | Quote
It is the "norm" - and, I specifically used quotes in that post in order to acknowledge the subjectiveness of that term - on a numbers basis, definitely. 90 to 95% of America is heterosexual, based on your source, and I think it's reasonable to define 90% of a population as the norm. No bias there.
Skydude

Armos Knight








Since: 02-18-06
From: Stanford, CA

Last post: 6570 days
Last view: 6570 days
Posted on 04-26-06 10:32 PM Link | Quote
I know that by quoting Ann Coulter I'll automatically be labeled a staunch conservative, but the woman makes a good point:

"[Democrats] accuse Republicans of speaking in 'code words.' This is one of the most enraging twists on the left's refusal to debate. Since authentically racist behavior would be apparent on its face, the concept of 'code words' allows liberals to call anyone a racist."

For that, substitute homophobe for racist, and you've got the same thing. Basically, there's no evidence, so they make up this "I get this vibe" or "code words" talk in order to proclaim what they believe. If it's such an established fact, do you really need the code words? Shouldn't it speak for itself if it's that blatant?
Sinfjotle
Lordly? No, not quite.








Since: 11-17-05
From: Kansas

Last post: 6298 days
Last view: 6297 days
Posted on 04-26-06 10:46 PM Link | Quote
I'm trying to avoid a morality argument here, since if we get into another one of those, we'll get into a "pissing contest" as Tarale said so elegantly.

But yeah, post above your last one: I won't go off on my own tagent because Skydude is pretty much approximating how I feel about this. It's not a matter of being pro- or anti-gay, it's a matter of morality being taught to young children in schools. To address your question directly: no, teachers should not read "whatever they want" to their grammar school-age students. Especially if the content they propose to use has material that some parents might find objective.


You use moral as a stage for a lot of things, you use it to say something is wrong (or immoral) and that's what gives off the feeling. I've already given my opinion on morality in another topic, and I don't want to get sucked into another argument where you start with something small (implying I'm out of touch with reality), and leads to me basically saying you're a dumbfuck. We don't want that.
mattp

Red Paratroopa


 





Since: 03-04-06

Last post: 6561 days
Last view: 6561 days
Posted on 04-26-06 10:55 PM Link | Quote
Dracoon - This is the argument over the validity of sexual orientations. The 'Gay Fairy Tale' thread is down the hall.

Thank you
Sinfjotle
Lordly? No, not quite.








Since: 11-17-05
From: Kansas

Last post: 6298 days
Last view: 6297 days
Posted on 04-26-06 10:56 PM Link | Quote
Indeed it is, but I was challenged, so I'm bringing up evidence. Or, am I suddenly not allowed to do that?
mattp

Red Paratroopa


 





Since: 03-04-06

Last post: 6561 days
Last view: 6561 days
Posted on 04-26-06 10:59 PM Link | Quote
No you are but it seems to me that you posted in the wrong thread. I've done it before, no shame.
Silvershield

580








Since: 11-19-05
From: Emerson, New Jersey

Last post: 6309 days
Last view: 6297 days
Posted on 04-26-06 11:01 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Dracoon
I'm trying to avoid a morality argument here, since if we get into another one of those, we'll get into a "pissing contest" as Tarale said so elegantly.
Tarale didn't have much business in that thread in the first place, but that's another issue entirely.

This isn't going to turn into a morality debate because, in this case, each of our morality regarding this issue is the same. I am not morally opposed to homosexuals, and neither are you - no debate there.

Originally posted by Dracoon
You use moral as a stage for a lot of things, you use it to say something is wrong (or immoral) and that's what gives off the feeling. I've already given my opinion on morality in another topic, and I don't want to get sucked into another argument where you start with something small (implying I'm out of touch with reality), and leads to me basically saying you're a dumbfuck. We don't want that.
I have a strong sense of morality, but I've never directed it at homosexuals. Just because I have no problem saying that abortion or capital punishment are immoral doesn't give you justification to generalize my belief in immorality to homosexuals.
Sinfjotle
Lordly? No, not quite.








Since: 11-17-05
From: Kansas

Last post: 6298 days
Last view: 6297 days
Posted on 04-26-06 11:05 PM Link | Quote
mattp: Nope, morality doesn't matter in that thread really.


Silvershield: Your comment that I quoted/posted seems that you do, but if you say you don't, then all right. I don't know why I get that feel from you though, I honestly believe if I were to meet you, you'd be just like any other boy around here talking about how disgusting fags are and that they shouldn't be fags, that they should be mocked, etc. If not though, oh well, my mistake.
Silvershield

580








Since: 11-19-05
From: Emerson, New Jersey

Last post: 6309 days
Last view: 6297 days
Posted on 04-26-06 11:14 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Dracoon
Your comment that I quoted/posted seems that you do, but if you say you don't, then all right. I don't know why I get that feel from you though, I honestly believe if I were to meet you, you'd be just like any other boy around here talking about how disgusting fags are and that they shouldn't be fags, that they should be mocked, etc. If not though, oh well, my mistake.
I don't really know how to respond to this. You have no evidence, either hard or circumstantial, that I have any sort of negative feelings towards gays, and I have no way of arguing against "that feel" you get...
Ziff
B2BB
BACKTOBASICSBITCHES


 





Since: 11-18-05
From: A room

Last post: 6296 days
Last view: 6296 days
Posted on 04-26-06 11:48 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Vyper
You still havn't answered my question, Ziff.


Yes, I did. What is Kas? Read my post.

Skydude: You're wrong on two counts; a) Ann Coulter - what she said is bollocks. There are no magical codewords that anyone left of Mussolini knows about to call other people racist. It's called common sense.

"I also find it rather hypocritical that earlier in the thread you were talking about people playing the victim of being accused of exactly the things you've been accusing people of just today!"

And this is where you lose again. Your argument here falls apart because I never said I was being accused of being - I was being attacked because I am.

And really with Silvershield, I'm waiting for my impression to be broken. Like Dracoon, I just get a vibe from his posts. I can't substantiate it, but I just get that feeling.

As for mattp, please don't mod. It's not your job.
mattp

Red Paratroopa


 





Since: 03-04-06

Last post: 6561 days
Last view: 6561 days
Posted on 04-27-06 12:06 AM Link | Quote
I wasn't trying to moderate anything. Just trying to point something out to him if he was confused. Sorry that I pissed everyone off.
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