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12-03-21 10:30 AM
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Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - ROM Hacking - Team hacking? New poll | |
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Blue Falkon

Hoarder


 





Since: 11-18-05
From: Canada

Last post: 5608 days
Last view: 5608 days
Posted on 11-20-05 11:32 AM Link | Quote
I'm not sure how many people actually do this but I'm kind of interested in it. I have several projects I want to actually get deep into doing but unfortunately my skill only pertains to certain aspects (I have no idea about hex or graphics editing, I'm only good with design and the "simple" stuff, although I am trying to learn the rest).

How many people would be interested in team hacking? These are some of the games I'm interested in:

Chrono Trigger - Temporal Flux (entire game override and graphics)
Zelda 3 - Hyrule Magic (entire game override and possibly graphics)
Super Mario World - Lunar Magic (ultra game override including graphics)
Pokémon Crimson - EliteMap as well as a million other programs (entire game override)

Zelda 3 and Super Mario World are at the top of my list. Chrono Trigger probably at the bottom.

Anyone who's interested post here (and note that it will be blatently impossible for team hacking to occur without some form of instant messenging program such as MSN - that's all I'm using).

If you want information on some of my ideas, especially for Zelda 3, just ask.
JossiRossi

Goomba


 





Since: 11-18-05

Last post: 5520 days
Last view: 5520 days
Posted on 11-20-05 05:50 PM Link | Quote
If you really want to get this done you're going to need to do a lot more than you have here.

1. Tell people what you can do. What are your skills. What is your strengths and most importantly what are your weaknesses.
2. Stick to one game. Just choose the game you want to work on first and only that one.
3. Your current hacking descriptions of "entire game override and graphics" well that's a pretty tall order. That means that a person in this would be in it for the long haul, but you have nothing about what the hack will be like.

You're asking for basically the ultiamte in dedication from rom makers, while not offering anything about the hacks you want to make. You're not going to get anyone to bite for this as it is.

Unfortunately people asking for team hacks don't get far too. Just from what I have seen in the past.
Dude Man

Shyguy


 





Since: 11-18-05
From: Wareham MA

Last post: 5453 days
Last view: 5453 days
Posted on 11-20-05 08:05 PM Link | Quote
The best way to fire up a team hack of such large scale is to start small. Make a mini hack of one of these games with a friend. Try your hardest to not look noobish on the boards, you don't seem to have trouble with that at all . And finally, get more experienced. Try some basic hex hacks and read up some documents. You need to show people you have the skills to stick a large hack through.
Omega45889

Shyguy


 





Since: 11-18-05

Last post: 5434 days
Last view: 5449 days
Posted on 11-20-05 08:21 PM Link | Quote
Team hacking is BY FAR the best way to go. Im speaking from first hand experience from DP. Just make sure you get yourself a reliable partner, and your good to go.
Blue Falkon

Hoarder


 





Since: 11-18-05
From: Canada

Last post: 5608 days
Last view: 5608 days
Posted on 11-20-05 10:48 PM Link | Quote
Well I work as a hobbyist in the actual game industry and I know by hand how difficult it is to actually recruit team members, and since the projects there are thousands of times more difficult than just simply hacking a rom, I know that it's hard to do. I figured this wouldn't go well, but might as well try, hm? ^^

I'll try to give information later. Unfortunately, I'm not able to double-post on this forum and I don't like doing it anyway, so I can't give clear up-to-date descriptions without making a bunch of topics, as editing posts will go unread since it doesn't bump the topic.

I'd say my current skills are that I'm a videogame designer, a head manager in game projects. My design skills are superb, I can come up with some of the most original things and best revamps I can possibly think of. I am well known in certain aspects of having a great imagination for these kinds of things and my favorite aspect is world building such as in RPGs or original game series (but I'm not posting anything original here, just sticking to rom hacking on this board). That doesn't go too well with hacking, though, just coming up with how the game will be laid out. I will need to study hacking more.

I'm pretty decent with Hyrule Magic in making maps, but I still get a lot of glitches, which is why I would REALLY enjoy a team hack in which more people more experienced than me will be able to help me out as well as participate in the design of the game.
Tzepish

UFO


 





Since: 11-21-05
From: Redmond, WA

Last post: 5458 days
Last view: 5458 days
Posted on 11-21-05 04:54 PM Link | Quote
I don't think this is gonna work out too well, Blue Falkon. ROM Hackers are pretty much *all* designers as well, and since this is fan stuff, they are going to want to *design* and implement their ideas. This isn't like the games industry (I'm a game designer also), where people are *hired* to code and the designers and producers come up with the ideas behind the game...
Blue Falkon

Hoarder


 





Since: 11-18-05
From: Canada

Last post: 5608 days
Last view: 5608 days
Posted on 11-21-05 05:14 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Tzepish
I don't think this is gonna work out too well, Blue Falkon. ROM Hackers are pretty much *all* designers as well, and since this is fan stuff, they are going to want to *design* and implement their ideas. This isn't like the games industry (I'm a game designer also), where people are *hired* to code and the designers and producers come up with the ideas behind the game...


(I SWEAR I WILL KILL MY INTERNET. Excuse that sudden anger streak.)

Yes, most likely. I do respect everyone's hard work with the design of their hacks, I have played a few of these and they're very enjoyable. However, there is a huuuuuuge difference between actually game designers and hack designers. I'm not really going to get into the technical details but designers have to go through actual professional design documents in order to make a design official, and then the design has to be recognized and brought out. Hacks are just taking an originally designed game and turning it into something that comes out of your own head, like a remix of a song. Nothing more. But, these hacks are very good, and I like some of them a lot better than the actual games.

Being a game designer will not exactly help me in hiring a team, I do know. I'll just have to work with who I already have now.
Bit-Blade



 





Since: 11-18-05

Last post: 5427 days
Last view: 5522 days
Posted on 11-21-05 06:31 PM Link | Quote
You need to be able to entice people. We are superficial creatures. If we are shown a small peice of something that is very impressive, then you are much less likely to get any scornful responses, and even better than that, people will be more willing to lend a hand. Therefore my advice to you is to work on a small part of a hack and spend as much time getting it perfect as you can. Rely on the old graphics trick of borrowing graphics from other games and modifying them to suit your needs if you have to. It's something many of us have done, and it helps you learn pixel art in the process. If you do a good enough job with that sort of mini-hack thing, you should be able to get some reliable help. You just have to make it seem like it's worth their while, you know?
Tzepish

UFO


 





Since: 11-21-05
From: Redmond, WA

Last post: 5458 days
Last view: 5458 days
Posted on 11-22-05 11:54 AM Link | Quote
"Yes, most likely. I do respect everyone's hard work with the design of their hacks, I have played a few of these and they're very enjoyable. However, there is a huuuuuuge difference between actually game designers and hack designers."

Exactly, but the biggest difference between the two, in my experience, is that in the games industry, programmers (and even designers) are given the task the create a game, and it goes something like this: "Here's the synopses of the game: insert game synopses here. You have a year and a half to make this game." My last game was literally given to us in a two page summary by the producers, and we were told the date by which to complete it. Whereas in the ROM hack community, you can't very well get away with "I have this awesome idea for a game... I just need some programmers... Who wants to help me program my awesome idea?" ROM hackers would prefer to work on their own awesome ideas.


"I'm not really going to get into the technical details but designers have to go through actual professional design documents in order to make a design official, and then the design has to be recognized and brought out. Hacks are just taking an originally designed game and turning it into something that comes out of your own head, like a remix of a song. Nothing more. But, these hacks are very good, and I like some of them a lot better than the actual games. "

Incidentally, a ROM hack can be produced in the same way a new game can, with design documentation and everything if you wanted, it's just not necessary, as ROM hacks are much smaller projects than commercial games, and they have no deadlines. A ROM hack may very well end up being a better game than the original, but it already has most of its work done for it (in the form of the original game), and this is where the bulk of the design documentation would have gone. Heck, most hacks come with a readme file that often details every change made to the game, and these readme files are usually 1 to 10 pages long - almost the same document could have been written during preproduction on the hack as a single 10-page design document for the hack.

That's not to say there isn't a comparable level of blood, sweat, and tears devoted to hacks and commercial games - hacks are created with teams of 5 to 10 instead of 50 to 100, and they don't have access to useful programs like SourceSafe/Perforce. They also have to work on the hack entirely in their free time, so it's almost as if hackers are always in crunch mode.

Some sizeable design documentation could be created for game overhauls, though, detailing the new level layouts and everything. However, the bigger your design documentation is versus the amount of implementation you do yourself, the more of a jerk you look like. For example:

Game Industry
Designer: "Here's my xxx page document on levels... our deadline is ________"
Artist/Level Designer: "Righto"

ROM Hacking Community
Would-be hacker: "Here's my xxx page document on levels... if you could hack this for me, that'd be awesome."
Hacker/Programmer: "Erm, learn how to ROM hack?"
Would-be hacker: "Trust me, I'm an elite professional designer... you should make my designs instead of yours."

I'm not accusing you of saying this, but this is often what it looks like from a ROM hack community perspective. I've been a ROM hacker for about seven years longer than I've been a professional game designer, and frankly, though this is entirely the norm in the games industry, here it looks like another noob hack request.


"Being a game designer will not exactly help me in hiring a team, I do know. I'll just have to work with who I already have now."

Being a game designer won't help you hire a team, but creating awesome hacks will. And I don't doubt that you will.
Blue Falkon

Hoarder


 





Since: 11-18-05
From: Canada

Last post: 5608 days
Last view: 5608 days
Posted on 11-22-05 12:02 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Tzepish
Some sizeable design documentation could be created for game overhauls, though, detailing the new level layouts and everything. However, the bigger your design documentation is versus the amount of implementation you do yourself, the more of a jerk you look like. For example:

Game Industry
Designer: "Here's my xxx page document on levels... our deadline is ________"
Artist/Level Designer: "Righto"

ROM Hacking Community
Would-be hacker: "Here's my xxx page document on levels... if you could hack this for me, that'd be awesome."
Hacker/Programmer: "Erm, learn how to ROM hack?"
Would-be hacker: "Trust me, I'm an elite professional designer... you should make my designs instead of yours."

I'm not accusing you of saying this, but this is often what it looks like from a ROM hack community perspective. I've been a ROM hacker for about seven years longer than I've been a professional game designer, and frankly, though this is entirely the norm in the games industry, here it looks like another noob hack request.


Haha, that's not exactly what I meant but I do see your point. It's hard to explain what I actually mean... hm, I know it would be hard to actually get more people to help with this when I actually don't know a lot about it myself. Let's put it this way, in what I really mean:

I want some help to create a new game WITH other people. I do not want to go "this is what I want you to do, do it", I want to hear from other people and listen to their ideas and apply them along with mine. I need technical help in the process of making certain types of puzzles and whatnot, and ASM hacking. I do not want to boss people around in creating something that I want, I just want to work with other people to share the experience and have a fun time creating a new version of an original game. Do you understand? I hope I made it as clear as possible.
Tzepish

UFO


 





Since: 11-21-05
From: Redmond, WA

Last post: 5458 days
Last view: 5458 days
Posted on 11-22-05 06:25 PM Link | Quote
"I want some help to create a new game WITH other people. I do not want to go "this is what I want you to do, do it", I want to hear from other people and listen to their ideas and apply them along with mine. I need technical help in the process of making certain types of puzzles and whatnot, and ASM hacking. I do not want to boss people around in creating something that I want, I just want to work with other people to share the experience and have a fun time creating a new version of an original game. Do you understand? I hope I made it as clear as possible."

You did, and it's awesome. Too bad I don't have the time to join you.
:-)

Good luck.
HyperHacker

Star Mario
Finally being paid to code in VB! If only I still enjoyed that. <_<
Wii #7182 6487 4198 1828


 





Since: 11-18-05
From: Canada, w00t!
My computer's specs, if anyone gives a damn.
STOP TRUNCATING THIS >8^(

Last post: 5402 days
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Posted on 11-23-05 03:53 PM Link | Quote
Actually, in some cases ROM hacking can be more difficult than making a game from scratch. You have to figure out how a completely undocumented engine works given only its executable, and work within its limitations or remove them yourself. True, most ROM hacking is done using premade editors and documentation (by other hackers), but then most games are made by modifying existing code too; for example, Zelda: OoT is built from Mario 64. Also, programmers have more resources like IDEs, programs designed specifically for group work, specialized debuggers, and in some cases entire computers to test on. ROM hackers have whatever freeware they can find or make. (Even if you're willing to pirate, there's rarely any commercial products that come in useful.)

As far as group hacks go, the biggest problem is finding a competent, reliable partner. Since they're doing it for free in their spare time, there's very little incentive to actually do their job, and of course most are already working on their own hacks. I'd like to make a hack based on someone else's specifications, with or without their help, but I'm already working on several hacks/programs and have plans for several more.
Blue Falkon

Hoarder


 





Since: 11-18-05
From: Canada

Last post: 5608 days
Last view: 5608 days
Posted on 11-24-05 09:58 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by HyperHacker
As far as group hacks go, the biggest problem is finding a competent, reliable partner. Since they're doing it for free in their spare time, there's very little incentive to actually do their job, and of course most are already working on their own hacks. I'd like to make a hack based on someone else's specifications, with or without their help, but I'm already working on several hacks/programs and have plans for several more.


I understand that. Maybe I should just give up on asking?
creaothceann

Red Goomba








Since: 11-22-05

Last post: 5597 days
Last view: 5597 days
Posted on 11-24-05 11:19 AM Link | Quote
1. Prepare to do everything on your own (including ASM - it'll come in handy even if you don't end up working directly with the code), but invite people to participate.

2. Post your ideas and plans, so that others can look at and talk about it, maybe even decide to take over certain parts.
Blue Falkon

Hoarder


 





Since: 11-18-05
From: Canada

Last post: 5608 days
Last view: 5608 days
Posted on 11-24-05 11:26 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by creaothceann
1. Prepare to do everything on your own (including ASM - it'll come in handy even if you don't end up working directly with the code), but invite people to participate.

2. Post your ideas and plans, so that others can look at and talk about it, maybe even decide to take over certain parts.


It is never a wise idea to post your plans, even if you have people working on it with you. Never, ever a wise idea. Well, that comes from actually making a game from scratch and having copyright stuff going on, but still... not a very good idea. But, I still see what you mean.

I already have some people helping me now, some doing hex and stuff like that, I was just hoping I'd find more people.
Jason

Micro-Goomba


 





Since: 01-07-06

Last post: 5802 days
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Posted on 01-11-06 06:15 AM Link | Quote
Hey, I'm kind of a n00b, but I do love graphics editing and sprites. Not really interested in the other stuff. I would probalby only want to help with the Mario World hack. I only know how to work with tiles on NES roms, so I would need to learn a little, but PM me. Also, you might want to respond in this thread also, and tell me how to access the PMs on this site (n00b, remember?)

I may also help with music, if that is possible to edit.


Some of the sprites I am working on are in this thread: http://board.acmlm.org/thread.php?id=1818
DahrkDaiz

Nipper Plant
U wan hax Mario?!








Since: 11-17-05

Last post: 5403 days
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Posted on 01-11-06 09:12 AM Link | Quote
No bumping old threads like this please unless it adds a substantial piece or comment to the thread, otherwise just PM the author
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