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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Norwegian and Danish embassies burned due to cartoons |
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Snow Tomato Snap Dragon                     Since: 12-31-05 From: NYC Last post: 6316 days Last view: 6301 days |
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| Protests are fine, as long as nobody gets seriously injured in the process. The burning of a flag is a demonstration, a defiant act. It's not killing or hurting anyone.. it's just a strong symbolic act. I encourage peaceful protest. They crossed the line by burning down embassies with people in them. | |||
neotransotaku Sledge Brother Liberated from school...until MLK day  Since: 11-17-05 From: In Hearst Field Annex... Last post: 6298 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by Snow Tomatothose individuals probably believe that would deliver justice in their own way... although, apparently, they are still not satisfied. |
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Sin Dogan   860  Uoodo Original Blend Armored Trooper Votoms Canned Coffee! Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6300 days Last view: 6299 days |
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| It's really being blown out of proportion as well.
In the "Islamic countries", there hasn't been that many protests or anything of the sort. |
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Cynthia Uh-huh. Since: 11-17-05 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| When you burn a country's flag, you're disrespecting the country. I know some Americans here would be pissed if they saw someone burning the flag outside their house. Not to mention the fact that it's illegal in some countries.
It's when you cross the line between sanctioning and disrespecting the country that it gets touchy. Sanctioning would be like what supermarkets in the region are doing, telling people not to buy Danish food.  |
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emcee Red Super Koopa Since: 11-20-05 Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by Colin + I might be a little bothered by it, but I would respect their right to exp |
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Salmon Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-18-05 From: Norway Last post: 6311 days Last view: 6301 days |
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| So the Danes should be allowed to defile an important symbol to moslems by publishing those cartoons, but moslems shouldn't be allowed to defile an important symbol to Danes by burning flags? Isn't that kind of a double-standard? | |||
Trapster King Dedede Since: 11-19-05 From: Sweden Last post: 6403 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by Colin + I´d surely be pissed if someone burned a swedish flag. I´m not nationalistic in any way but I´d take it as an insult. As I said before, it´s only a fragment on the muslimswho are extremists so the attack wasn´t that major but still a threat since people got hurt. I believe I said that thet danish newspaper went to far too. |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Mind you, there is increasing proof that the whole riots were incited by provocateurs in the Saudi Arabian and other governments around the Middle East. | |||
windwaker Ninji i'm not judgemental, i'm cynical Lonely People of the World, Unite! Since: 12-27-05 Last post: 6325 days Last view: 6303 days |
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Originally posted by Colin + Any country in which flag burning is illegal deserves to have its flag burnt. |
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Skreename Giant Red Paratroopa Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6302 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by windwakerOriginally posted by Colin + Agreed. It may seem inflammatory (har har punny), but it's still a legitimate form of protest, and it's not really hurting anyone. As for whether it offends people, well... Sometimes you have to offend people to get the attention for the important issues. Of course, I don't really consider doing things that will specifically (and directly) hurt people to be good ways of protest. That kind of thing will almost always attract scorn more than it will inspire people to do anything useful. |
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Snow Tomato Snap Dragon Since: 12-31-05 From: NYC Last post: 6316 days Last view: 6301 days |
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| But you don't want to seem like a bunch of radical extremists... because then you just take away from your cause that much more. Which is why flag burning although it does get people's attention.. generally makes the protesters look like radical nuts. However, most people have a negative image of protesters to begin with... which seems rather silly to me.
Have you heard that in response to the cartoons, Muslims have organized a contest to see who can make the best political holocaust cartoon? I saw it on CNN today, and I'm too lazy to dig up a link right now. But, this is reaching ridiculous proportions. I have a feeling it's not so much about the cartoons themselves... but the obvious long legacy of hatred between these two ethnic groups. But I got irked when the CNN reporter was like "Thousands of cartoons have been published by people of the Muslim faith poking fun at the darkest hours of jewish history, and no reaction has been as extreme as the muslim reaction to these cartoons.". She just said it in a way that made me want to throw my shoes at the television screen. Paula Zahn. But a Muslim cartoonist who was interveiwed said something good. He said that he has no qualms about depicting Ariel Sharon as a murderer in cartoons, but he'd never take the Isreali god and draw him killing people. I can think of nothing more offensive to the Muslim people.. especially when they're under such scrutiny from the Western World. It was kind of like telling someone who's overweight and insecure that they're fat and ugly. Of course you're going to get an extreme reaction, especially when they're already defensive and self concious about it. Still, it's not so much about the cartoons as it is the legacy of hatred between these two groups. |
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Wurl Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6337 days Last view: 6337 days |
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| I burned an American Flag once. Though it was small. Great fun. | |||
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windwaker Ninji i'm not judgemental, i'm cynical Lonely People of the World, Unite! Since: 12-27-05 Last post: 6325 days Last view: 6303 days |
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Originally posted by Wurl Now smoke a joint with a page from the bible and brag about it (like the Emmanual Goldstein of 2600). |
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Cynthia Uh-huh. Since: 11-17-05 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Have you heard that in response to the cartoons, Muslims have organized a contest to see who can make the best political holocaust cartoon?
Didn't they cancel that contest the other day? I mean, there's really no need to do the eye-for-an-eye thing here, or even reward that mentality. |
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Sin Dogan 860 Uoodo Original Blend Armored Trooper Votoms Canned Coffee! Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6300 days Last view: 6299 days |
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Originally posted by Snow Tomato Well yea, as people have noted, it's the good people who are always underspoken. Farheed Zakaria is a writer for Newsweek and he's a strong minded Muslim whom I like very much. And the hatred really hasn't existed for too long, contrary to belief. When Jerusalem was under Islamic control, there was prosperity and safety for the Jews, Muslims, and Christians. And for good measure, not only is scrutiny an issue, but I could see how some fellow Muslims would think God has forsaken us. (although that's NOT so much the issue) With recent calamities like the Tsunami and earthquakes of South Asia having heavy casualties in Muslim majority countries like Indonesia and Pakistan, respectively. Also, the more recent prejudice fueled genocides have been against Muslims, namely the incidents in Gujarat and Srebenica. Then you have regional conflicts and conflicts in general with Muslims involved. Kosovo, India, China, Russia, Israel, Thailand, etc. And let's not forget that in Arabian countries like the UAE and Qatar(well off, extremely safe countries to live in), there are people that have simply been disappearing. (motivated by the US) Yea, these things happen, but who remembers? When are we ever known as people who made great strides in medicine, mathematics, poetry, navigation(hello, we invented the compass!), and not those who shed blood and convert infidels. I'm sick and tired of that kind of crap. But I can't get angry when people become ignorant, because then I'll just be painted as a terrorist. Heh, it wouldn't be the first time I was called one. (edited by Jin Dogan on 02-10-06 01:19 AM) |
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Arwon Bazu Since: 11-18-05 From: Randwick, Sydney, NSW, Australia Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6296 days |
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Originally posted by Snow Tomato It was some Iranian newspaper. I believe the Danish paper at the centre of all this wants to reprint them, or take part in the contest. |
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6310 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| An interesting opinion a came across today about the impact of the cartoons.
"Recent world events have exposed the reality of the conflict between the West and Islam. I do not believe that this conflict is confined to only radical Islam and the West. This is because the majority or significant segment of Muslim immigrants to Western nations believe in the imposition of Sharia within the European and North American nations they have immigrated to. In Britain, 61% of Muslims want Sharia implemented, 30% in the Netherlands, and a shocking 37% of British Muslims think Jews are a legitimate target according to a YouGov poll. Further, more than half of Muslims believe it is "right to boycott Holocaust Memorial Day and believe that the Jewish community has no interest in the plight of the Palestinians and has too much influence over British foreign policy." This illustrates a fundamental chasm between how Muslims and westerners think, regardless of whether they were born in the West, live in the Middle East, or immigrated to the West. At some point, Western nations will be confronted with a tremendously difficult question: will they give in to Islamic law or reject it? The Mohammed cartoons have further highlighted the inability of Islam to mesh with Western liberal values like freedom of speech, exp Freedom of exp I believe eventually Europe, and perhaps North America and Australia later on, will be faced with the decision on whether to expel Muslims from their societies and back to their countries of origin in order to preserve their freedom, heritage, and culture. The expansion of Muslim populations in Europe has been pointed out clearly by Mark Steyn in his piece "Its the Demography, Stupid" . It goes against every fiber of my being to think that such an event could occur in a free country, but when faced with cultural and demographic destruction, a nation like France, Germany, or Britain may have no other choice. The only other choice would be surrender, and I cannot imagine the people of Europe allowing that to happen, even the French. Muslim protests over the Mohammed cartoons have called for the death of those who insult Mohammed, warned of another 9-11, and incited violence of every kind. I am not sure if Islam is truly a religion of violence, but its followers are certainly doing their best to make me think that the end-product of following Mohammed and Islam is violence. And beyond violence, hypocrisy abounds for Muslims. They denounce the cartoons, which were undoubtedly distasteful and disrepectful, but yet Muslim countries and individuals constantly spew venom at Israel, America, the Catholic Church, Christians, Jews, and others. Lets not forget that the Taliban also targeted Buddhists by destroying century old statues because they were in opposition to Islam. If nothing else, Islam tends to a destructive individual and collective mentality today. The notion of terrorism, suicide bombings, assassinations, beheadings, and fear are inextricably linked to modern day Islam throughout the world. When one thinks of such things, one cannot help but think of Al Qaida, Saudi Arabia, Daniel Pearl, Munich, Iran, or Islam. This is regardless of one's personal views of the Bush administration and the War on Terror. Who would ever think that the Danes would be the subject of such hate and anger? The Danes never hurt anyone! At minimum, Muslims who claim to be in favor of free speech appear to be of the opinion: free speech, as long as you don't... *fill in the blank*. Free speech is fine for the production of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, calling Jews the product of pigs and monkeys, burning effigies of Bush, Cheney, Sharon, and the Danish PM, but don't dare criticize the prophet. Such reverance for Mohammed verges on idolatry itself, the very thing Muslims are allegedly trying to avoid. Islam has no ability or capacity for introspection because of its inherent nature. The fundamental tenets of Islam differ profoundly from Christianity and other religions. The Five Pillars of Islam are: to bear witness that there is none worthy of worship save Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, to observe Prayer (Salat), to Pay Zakat (Alms giving), to perform the Pilgrimage to the House of Allah (Hajj), and to Observe fasting during Ramadhan." (Bukhari) Contrast that with the teaching of Jesus, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: Love youneighborur as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." (Matthew 22:37-40) While Islam may mean peace in name, it does not translate into peace in action by the works of its followers. Significant numbers of Muslims seem intent on imposing their views on others. There have been many movements throughout the West to have Sharia imposed in various forms. Specifically in Ontario, Canada, a movement to have a form of Sharia introduced into the provincial code was put forward to solve civil disputes. Fortunately, this caused an uproar and the proposal was shot down. Sharia law practiced in the Middle East allows the death penalty for adultery, says alimony needs to be paid for three months only, and tends to award fathers custody of children in divorce proceedings. It is important that the spread of radical Islam is stopped. Most Muslims in Western nations would probably agree with that statement was well. However, I believe it may be important, perhaps essential, that the spread of Islam in general be slowed through immigration controls and security screening. This is nothing to be politically correct about because our very way of life and fundamental values are at stake. We should watch with a keen interest the events in Europe as they unfold because of their large Muslim populations." By: Johnathan D. Strong |
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Arwon Bazu Since: 11-18-05 From: Randwick, Sydney, NSW, Australia Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6296 days |
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| Garbage. Culture war garbage. OMG PEOPLE WHO ARE DIFFERENT ARE MOVING HERE THEY'LL NEVER ASSIMILATE AND THEY'LL TAKE OVER. Same tune people have been singing for centuries everytime there's immigration.
That Jesus quote is hardly the only one you could produce to compare to Islam, the stuff about Sharia law in Canada is totally off the mark, and the whole article doesn't recognise just how widely varied and widely interpreted Sharia can be between, say, Nigeria, Canada and Indonesia. |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Please post a link to that article. 
Complete reproduction without proper documentation makes this moderator sad  |
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6310 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| http://strongconservative.blogspot.com/2006/02/choice-is-coming.html
that is where it comes from... the link also has links in it that are mentioned in the article but didn't come through Arwon: yeah, it is culture war. The western culture vs the Islamic culture. http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007760 read that link.... it's quite long, but it is something to also consider. If you choose not to I'll give the quick run-down. Basically the second article says that "western" societies are not reproducing enough to sustain themselves without immigration. As opposed to "Muslim" countries which are strikingly opposite. (birth rates in the west averaging 1-2 people per woman and in "muslim" areas up to 6 or 7 per woman) Basically it comes down to numbers. The Islamic people will become more numerous than the rest of the people on the planet. This is eventually going to have ramafications and possibly war. I personally can't imagine "the West" giving in to people that say "Freedom of speech is western terrorism" or "Slay those who insult Islam" |
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