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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Norwegian and Danish embassies burned due to cartoons |
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Pikawil  130                   Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6390 days Last view: 6298 days |
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| I wonder if this will eventually lead to WW3... | |||
Rom Manic   Since: 12-18-05 From: Detroit, WHAT?! Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| I think it's World War 3 material, much like World War 1 started.
However, until I see a horned helmet on each Danish and Norwegian soldier, I remain unimpressed. |
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||bass Administrator  Since: 11-17-05 From: Salem, Connecticut Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| These protesters are really stupid. If they had just lightened the hell up and not caused a fucking riot over it, nobody would have ever heard of the cartoons. Now, since they started to cause a big scene over it, EVERYONE is going to see the cartoons to find out what the big fuss is over.
Now, because they couldn't take a damn joke, EVERYONE is laughing at Islam. Those cartoons are quite funnny and I never would have found them if not for these rioting nutcases. (edited by ||bass on 02-05-06 12:01 AM) |
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Ailure Mr. Shine I just want peace...  Since: 11-17-05 From: Sweden Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| It forgot to mention that a Swedish ambassy was attacked and burned down too... or rather. It was in the same building as the Danish ambassady. I'm not much of a nationalistic person, but... garfsgdg.
Grah, this is just... stupid.  This won't lead to a WW3, since the Nordic nations rather tries to look for a peaceful situation than warmongering. Then, Denmark and Norway (But not Sweden) is US allies.(edited by wtfsticks on 02-05-06 01:30 AM) |
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Arwon Bazu Since: 11-18-05 From: Randwick, Sydney, NSW, Australia Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6296 days |
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| It's an overreaction, but I accuse the newspaper cartoonists of trolling for a reaction. The story started when a children's book aimed at nonbelievers was published, featuring inoffensive drawings of Mohammed. There were protests, which seemed a bit silly from our point of view, but it could have ended there, the books were not controversial. Then the paper in question basically decided to test the limits of self-censorship by asking for offensive caricatures of Muhammed. The result was, basically, inciteful hatespeech.
It's lampooning their prophet, not the followers, or other aspects of the faith, and this can be an important difference between this controversy and the usual treatement of, say, Jesus, in western political satire. The view of Muhammed portrayed in the cartoons is, basically, one of deep ignorance and/or hate. (The offending caricatures of Muhammed. I mean christ, Muhammed as a man with a bomb for a turban?). If a major Middle Eastern newspaper published cartoons featuring grotesque caricatures of Jesus, perhaps of Jesus bombing people or something, I suspect there'd be a reaction from the Christian counterparts of these wingnuts in the West. Ann Coulter would be denouncing them and calling for boycotts and whathaveyou. Very religious folks tend to be really sensitive about direct and hateful attacks on their holy figures. Simple fact of life. That said, the treatement in the west has been simplistic and annoying. There's been little discussion of the purposely trolling nature of the cartoons, and certainly no indication that these reactions are not representative of all, or even a majority, of the muslim world. Interestingly, the US State Dept supported the Muslim view:
And, in a completely unrelated cartoon-related furore, apparently the US Joint Chiefs of Staff are angry at the publication of this cartoon. (edited by Arwon on 02-05-06 01:44 AM) |
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6310 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Arwon: well, I don't know too many professing Christians with bombs strapped to them trying to blow up buildings or people. But of course, you'll come up with some situation that shows how one guy did it some time, or the US military does worse or BLAH BLAH BLAH.
Everyone needs to get over it. It's a cartoon. Whoever is the most prominent in the media gets the worst of it. And who is most prominent? Islam. More specifically, islamic extremists. So why should it be a surprise that this has happened? Simply said. People choose to get offended. People chose to make these cartoons and other people chose to burn down buildings because of the cartoons. Who made the worse of the 2 choices? |
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LizardKing Bullet Bill  Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6298 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| I think both sides did wrong, really. The newspapers/magazines shouldn't have printed those drawings, knowing that it could be offending.
I do think that the muslims have the right to be offended and protest (peacefully, of course), but this has just gone out of hand. I didn't care at first, when they burned a badly drawn copy of our flag, but burning down the Norwegian and Danish embassy, and sending out death threats is just going to far. Meh, I don't know. It would be crazy if this were to escalate any further.  |
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Trapster King Dedede Since: 11-19-05 From: Sweden Last post: 6403 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| They think they´re above the law. I´m really starting to dislike extremists more than I did before. Some people just can´t take a joke.
This is to overreact. I´m christian myself and I don´t mind joke pictures of Jesus and other. I can´t think it´s fun. "Very religious folks tend to be really sensitive about direct and hateful attacks on their holy figures. Simple fact of life. " Except that these ones weren´t meant to be hateful. |
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Thexare Metal battleaxe Off to better places  Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by geeogree Do you only overlook details when it's convenient to you? It was a hypothetical situation, as I'm sure anyone else could've easily seen. |
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Arwon Bazu Since: 11-18-05 From: Randwick, Sydney, NSW, Australia Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6296 days |
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| Ran-chan, did you look at the pictures? Muhammed with a bomb for a turban? The pictures are all rooted in crude, hateful or xenophobic stereotypes. They don't make a point beyond that, and they're essentially painting Muhammed and all muslims as terrorists.
The newspaper asked for offensive caricatures to print and then printed them, caricatures rooted in these crude and grotesque stereotypes, to provoke a reaction. |
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Trapster King Dedede Since: 11-19-05 From: Sweden Last post: 6403 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Then those extremists are playing the newspaper in the hands. They wanted a reaction and they got one.
Now they´ve an argument for picturing them as terrorists.
I guess that was their plan. |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by Ran-chan I don't want to Godwin this thread, but interestingly, this was pretty much the same tactic that Rohm and his buddies used to provoke the Communists in order to become increasingly involved in violent confrontations. |
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Cynthia Uh-huh. Since: 11-17-05 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| I'm not saying the pictures are right or wrong (some of them are funny but the one with Muhammed and the bomb... eh...), but papers are entitled to free speech. They didn't publish the pictures with clear intent to piss off the Islamic world or anything like that.
The problem is that while you may have been able to make a case for Denmark to apologize a week or two ago, given the attacks on the embassies and the reaction... they're not the ones who should apologize. Now the attackers themselves are giving Islam a bad name. |
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Sin Dogan 860  Uoodo Original Blend Armored Trooper Votoms Canned Coffee! Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6300 days Last view: 6299 days |
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| Well you know, It's incredibly offensive considering that he's not supposed to be drawn anyway. And I would not justify any of these attacks(obviously), but I really don't think Muhammad(S)'s good name deserves to be dragged in the dirt because of some extremists. Once again all Muslims have to suffer because of some fanatics. But we are not responsible for what they did. Regardless of what people might say, there is no particular fanaticism that is unique to Islam. I am a proud enough Muslim to say that. | |||
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6310 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| I'm sure the cartoons were offensive to many muslims, but come on. Offensive things happen all the time. I can't walk past the high school I live by without getting offended or digusted in some way.
Does that mean I need to burn the high school down to point out how much I don't like what high school students do? NO! All it means is that I'm going to avoid/ignore those people that offend me. Freedom of speech is a right people have, which translates into freedom to offend. I can think/feel whatever I want to, and so can you. Those people can choose to get offended by the cartoons that were published or they can overlook/ignore what people that are ignorant of their religion say. It's all about choice. Those people that got offended made a worse choice than those that published/created that cartoons. The only way to change a stereotype is to live contrary to that stereotype and as long as extremist muslim (or people that claim to be muslim) people continue to be terrorists then that's what the world is going to think. And I realize most muslims aren't terrorists, but the few that are are the only ones on the news ever. |
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Sin Dogan 860 Uoodo Original Blend Armored Trooper Votoms Canned Coffee! Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6300 days Last view: 6299 days |
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| Exactly. So that's why they aren't any less human than you or I. The only difference is that I choose not to lash out despite all the slander. Yet there has been a large amount of effort to dehumanize terrorists when it's quite obvious why they exist. | |||
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6310 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Terrorists exist because a group of people have an agenda that they are unable to acheive through legitimate non-violent means, so they resort to murder and mayhem.
Terrorists of course believe that their cause is just and that any means used to acheive their ends is justified - of course this is purely subjective.... is that what you had in mind? (edited by geeogree on 02-06-06 01:23 AM) |
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Wurl Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6337 days Last view: 6337 days |
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| All war is a result of a select few that have an agenda. | |||
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Sin Dogan 860 Uoodo Original Blend Armored Trooper Votoms Canned Coffee! Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6300 days Last view: 6299 days |
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Originally posted by geeogree That's part of it. Of course, the more popular form doesn't use this form of influence. I think it's more the feeling of desperation that spreads. And when you're desperate and all you've seen is people die and get killed, it becomes easier to be violent. It doesn't have anything to do with religion. |
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6310 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| that's very fair....
I think my definition was pretty comprehensive. It included what you said. I personally think the agendas pushed by terrorists are so far out there for the rest of the world that there is no way we're ever going to accept them. So really, what can we do about it? |
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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Norwegian and Danish embassies burned due to cartoons |
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