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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - State of the Union Address. |
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windwaker Ninji i'm not judgemental, i'm cynical Lonely People of the World, Unite!                  Since: 12-27-05 Last post: 6324 days Last view: 6302 days |
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| You are correct in that FEMA did nothing compared to the Red Cross. But that's the government's fault, not the taxpayer's fault; FEMA should have done just as much.
Your argument was less clear until now; the government is much less efficient at helping people, but I don't think we should stop trying. I think this is the biggest problem with government agencies trying to help the poor. Medicare and welfare still do help tons, and shouldn't be abolished. This speech has to be one of thee best speeches I heard from Bush. My dad paid 20,000+ in taxes already. You can't be that stupid. Certain parts were admittedly good at first (like repeating "Democrat and Republican alike"), but they're nothing more than empty statements. Yes, we do have an addiction to oil, but you Bush, have been the one perpetuating this addiction. As for your dad paying 22k+ in taxes, is that collective or in the past year? If collective, he isn't making much money (actually, come to think of it, he'd probably be on WELFARE if he was 40 and only paid 22k in taxes, so he's a greedy bastard if he complains about it), and if that's in a year, he's making something like 70k a year. I don't think you really see taxes as anything but a way to see the government taking money from you, and thus, your post can be ignored as being based upon nothing. I will never put a chip in my skin you can go fuck yourself. You... don't... know... what.. you're.. talking... about... This is painful to read. |
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Tommathy Since: 11-17-05 From: Cloud Nine, Turn Left and I'm There~ Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| What falls under the category of "mantaining order" in terms of your ideal government's responsibilities, ||bass? | |||
Gavin Cheep-cheep Vandalism is not tolerated  Since: 11-17-05 From: IL, USA Last post: 6371 days Last view: 6314 days |
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Originally posted by Randy53215 Thanks, I'm glad you said that. Beacause now I know for sure that he was wrong. |
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Arwon Bazu  Since: 11-18-05 From: Randwick, Sydney, NSW, Australia Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by ||bass FEMA's not a charity organistion. It's job is Emergency Management. That's what their charter says. They fucking sucked at it, to the extend that they basically killed people by taking so long to get resources (primarily, given the absense of the LA National Guard, the Army and out of state Guard units) in there to restore order, establish rationing and shelter and evacuation etc. Once it was clear that there was a potentially deadly lack of authority and coordination on the ground after the hurricane hit and the flood waters rose, it was FEMA's job to get someone in there as a stop-gap measure while it organised the broader relief effort. But yeah, that's more to do with the incompetent political appointees and the failure of anyone in any position power to actually comprehend how bad Katrina was going to be (despite the models) until it was too late, despite all the warnings. As for the rest of the argument, uh, asserting baseless libertarian articles of faith as "facts of life" is an incredibly inneffective argument technique. Especially when you're speaking from the worst wealthy country in which to be poor in, and arguing for even less help for them. (edited by Arwon on 02-05-06 01:20 AM) |
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6309 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| poor people don't need handouts they need opportunities...
and who gives them chances to work? not the government.... not welfare.... rich people with empires built on the backs of the poor working class, that's where jobs come from. You guys want to tax the rich more? Go ahead and tax the rich more. Then there will be MORE job losses and fewer benefits on the job and life will get WORSE for the poor, not better. You guys think ||bass is backwards on this.... but he's got it figured out better than the rest of you do |
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neotransotaku Sledge Brother Liberated from school...until MLK day  Since: 11-17-05 From: In Hearst Field Annex... Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| if the rich spend money that will find its way down to the poor, then tax cuts are good. but if the rich spend money that remain within the rich (or do not spend at all), then why shouldn't the rich be taxed more?
anyways, raising or cutting taxes aren't the solution to the rich-poor gap, the solution is wiser spending and fixing corruption--since money is overspent in certain places and not spent enough in others and people taking advantage of the government for services they should not be entitled to |
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Rydain Sir Kibble Blaze Phoenix Runs with the Dragon Within  Since: 11-18-05 From: State College, PA Last post: 6299 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by geeogree Wait a sec. Do you really mean to say that the US government does not provide jobs? Last I checked, millions of people are employed by federal, state, and local government. Furthermore, not all businesses are empires run by the rich. According to 2001 tax statistics, 1.4 percent of small business owners with positive business income were taxed at the highest rate of 39.6 percent, and 2.3 percent were in the 36 percent bracket. Thus, increased taxes for the "rich" brackets would not affect the vast majority of small businesses in a negative way. (And I don't understand how they would affect the large "empire" companies, either, because I'd think that said companies would pay corporate tax on their revenue, which is a separate issue from the owner's income tax.) |
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windwaker Ninji i'm not judgemental, i'm cynical Lonely People of the World, Unite! Since: 12-27-05 Last post: 6324 days Last view: 6302 days |
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Originally posted by geeogree No; if these corporate empires don't pay living wages, then they will starve or do something illegal to make money. The government prevents that with welfare (although the corporations should be paying living wages). Have you ever known someone on welfare? Do you know what welfare is? It's not a handout. You know what is a handout? Rich assholes who take care of snotty kids like you. |
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Wurl Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6336 days Last view: 6336 days |
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Originally posted by geeogree Ha. My head just imploded. |
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||bass Administrator  Since: 11-17-05 From: Salem, Connecticut Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6294 days |
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Originally posted by WurlLogic tends to do that to the frail liberal mind.Originally posted by geeogreeHa. My head just imploded. |
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Rydain Sir Kibble Blaze Phoenix Runs with the Dragon Within Since: 11-18-05 From: State College, PA Last post: 6299 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| I should have done this earlier.
*Rydain whips out a STOP sign on a stick and a giant whistle FEW-WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET! *Rydain chucks a bottle labeled CHILL PILLS into the thread Dear everyone: Please present evidence and explain viewpoints instead of insulting those who you disagree with. If you would like to convince people that your opinion makes the most sense, sniping at them is not going to help at all. I would like to see a good exchange of different schools of thought on economics and government services, not a pointless snipefest, so let's keep it civil from here on out. |
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windwaker Ninji i'm not judgemental, i'm cynical Lonely People of the World, Unite! Since: 12-27-05 Last post: 6324 days Last view: 6302 days |
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| Dear ||bass and geeogree (if you reallyare different people),
Read the thread. You are incorrect. Thanks, windwaker |
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neotransotaku Sledge Brother Liberated from school...until MLK day Since: 11-17-05 From: In Hearst Field Annex... Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| ||bass and a few others are advocating trickle-down economics, and higher taxation is advocating trickle-up economics (or some form of that), is there an economic theory that is a mixture of the two?
the government can't make people spend money, so income taxation is the only way to do so, right? one thing bothers me is, if "rich people with empires built on the backs of the poor working class," provide jobs...is it fair for those in the poor working class to always remain in the poor working class? ack...it is soooo complicated |
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windwaker Ninji i'm not judgemental, i'm cynical Lonely People of the World, Unite! Since: 12-27-05 Last post: 6324 days Last view: 6302 days |
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Originally posted by neotransotaku Is it fair that the working poor remain poor... hm, working poor staying poor fai-- FAIRNESS AND EQUALITY IS COMMUNISM MAN. Seriously, if life was fair we all might be happy and not just some of us. Do you really want that? |
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||bass Administrator Since: 11-17-05 From: Salem, Connecticut Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| I propose a national sales tax of 24% with the abolition of virtually all other taxes. With the stipulation that the sales tax on food and "esentials" like soap, toilet paper, etc refundable to the end consumer.
This would provide a number of advantages. It's no wonder that they call this system FairTax. |
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Wurl Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6336 days Last view: 6336 days |
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| Y'know what? Fuck this. I'm moving to not-America. | |||
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||bass Administrator Since: 11-17-05 From: Salem, Connecticut Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6294 days |
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Originally posted by WurlHave fun and don't let the door hit 'ya where the good lord split 'ya. |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| Y'know what? This thread is ugly and getting closed. | |||
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||bass Administrator Since: 11-17-05 From: Salem, Connecticut Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| From what I've been able to tell, by your standards, "ugly" is any thread that isn't one big liberal circle jerk with everyone agreeing with each other about how socialism is the only way and how we should all live in a welfare state and then everyone congratulates themselves on being such wonderful people.
God forbid anyone even question the one and only "true path" of the extreme left. |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| ||bass, I didn't close it due to your sentiments, nor geeogree's. I closed it because of the over-reaction of Wurl.
However, you've shown yourself to be supremely immature, I'm going to ask you to refrain from editorial commentary on my choices as a moderator. In addition to that your statements about me are quite unfair and furthermore I'll be further asking you to refrain from posting within this forum. |
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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - State of the Union Address. |
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