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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Palastine (The General Conflict) |
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Wurl                   Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6336 days Last view: 6336 days |
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| First of all, this thread is for voicing your opinions on the ongoing conflict between Palastine and Israel.
In my opinion, Israel has been doing many horrible things to the Palastinian people. Israel has been seizing property from Palastinis (illegaly), killing them, and making day to day life damn near impossible. The Palastinian people have genuine reason to be upset. That, however, does not in my opinion justify terrorist attacks on civilians. We should also remember Israel has a horrible record of firing and attacking Palastinians, even children. And as an American, it angers me that the Israeli army uses often American weapons to kill. This, frankly, pisses me off. Personaly, I am for a one state solution. If Palastine were merged with Israel, wealth could be better distributed to the poor Palastinians. However, this seems less and less likely, because Israel is planning to cut relations with the Hamas led gov't. I'd still like to add a little more. (edited by Wurl on 02-01-06 08:55 PM) (edited by Wurl on 02-02-06 10:12 PM) |
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Vulkar Goomba  Since: 12-02-05 Last post: 6673 days Last view: 6673 days |
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I really must wonder about your opinions. First, I'll go into the history of it. Origanally, about fifty years ago, there was no israel. The jews had no country, no land, and were just absorbed into other countries. Then WWII came, and after they were saved from Hitler, the allied nations decided to give Israel a place to live, so that an atrocity such as Hitlers wouldn't happen again. So, ever since then, the Palastinians have been angry, and fought with Israel, as it was partly their land that was taken, though it was originally Israel's land. So, I'm going for Israel. Too much has been done against them, too many terror attacks, too much fighting. This has gone on for years, and I say that Palestine should give up, as all it is doing is killing civillians, not realizing that nothing will coem of it. The only war is created by Palestine, and if it would stop, there would be no trouble, no more deaths, and no more problems in that little corner of the world. Oh, and whenever, thye have come close to peace, there is another terror attack. The Israelites have tried to peace repeatedly, buth Palestine has rejected it many times. They want war, not peace. |
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Arwon Bazu Since: 11-18-05 From: Randwick, Sydney, NSW, Australia Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6296 days |
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| Yeah but Israeli governments have been destroying Palestinian society as well, with walls and settlements and military occupation and curfews and soldiers and checkpoints and restriction of movement and so forth. Not to mention a great deal of injustice and harshness through slective application of the Israeli legal system to Palestinians in the territories (like, people get charged, but if they need protection... it's much harder).
It's folly to underestimate the extent of the Palestinian grievances and trivialise their situation, and see only the insecurity of Israel. Folly. If this is gonna just be a "blame one side or the other" thread it won't be worth reading or taking part in. |
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p4ch3c0 Bronto Burt Since: 02-01-06 Last post: 6456 days Last view: 6456 days |
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| Perhaps the land can be partitioned? | |||
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Wurl Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6336 days Last view: 6336 days |
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Originally posted by p4ch3c0 Iarael has repeatedly broken border agreements against international law. I'll fininsh my first post once I have time. |
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Sin Dogan   860  Uoodo Original Blend Armored Trooper Votoms Canned Coffee! Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6299 days Last view: 6298 days |
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| Israelis can be no better than Palestinian terrorists. Some of the more recent suicide bombers were Israeli soldiers. They have bulldozed houses with women and children living in them, have run over children with tanks, opened fire on whole cities. There's no real excuse for any of that. The idea of Jews belonging to the land is ridiculous when you look at the Israeli population which is pretty diverse. I don't support either side in complete takeover, but I don't certainly don't agree with the large amount of support Israel is given. | |||
Jomb Deddorokku  Since: 12-03-05 From: purgatory Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6297 days |
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| Americans, just imagine if there was a WW3, and American Indians were being persecuted in it. After the war, the world decided that the American Indians deserved to have their land back, so they took your home and gave it to an American Indian family and made you go live somewhere on the worst possible land that no one else wanted. Would that piss you off, or would you just go along with losing everything you own over events that happened long before you were born? I imagine thats about how Palestinians must feel. I'd be extremely pissed off if i were in their shoes to. But now Israel has been there a long time, so no one can really win in that situation. It sucks. | |||
Snow Tomato Snap Dragon  Since: 12-31-05 From: NYC Last post: 6316 days Last view: 6301 days |
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| The problem is, their holy land is in the exact same place.
I don't see how they can't just share the land though. Isreali's can live there, as well as Palestinians and it can be called Pisreal or something. However, now there's been too much blood spilled between the two to ever have some sort of normal situation over there. The scars will always be there. I can see how both Isreal and Palestine are at odds with one another. It's a terrible situation and there are no easy answers. It's strange how a Holy Land could turn into a place of such death and destruction. It just tells you something. Maybe it's not about religion.. it's probably just about power. |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Just because your holy land lies there does not mean that you have a right to rule that area.
I, however, do support the right of the Israeli state to exist. I do not, however, think that they should take violent measures and I honestly believe that there can be a peaceful two state solution. |
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Vulkar Goomba Since: 12-02-05 Last post: 6673 days Last view: 6673 days |
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| @Jomb: The Indians don't need that much land. The Israelites did. Actually, the indians are mostly americans, there are no pure indians, and most americans have some indians blood in them. Also, its more likely that South America would be chosen. Cherokee and Catawba are the only major indian tribes that lived in the US.
Now, they should be separate, simply because of prejudice. However, I agree. There should be peace. But these palestinians have always attacked whenever they have come close to peace. Oh, and Admittedly, Israel is partly guilty, but sometimes its neccesary for intimidation. |
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Jomb Deddorokku Since: 12-03-05 From: purgatory Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6297 days |
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| Vulkar - true, American Indians are no longer numerous enough to need all this land, but i was only using that as a way to help people maybe understand how Palestinians must feel, and why they'd be pissed off. You are very wrong about Cherokee and Catawba being the only major tribes to live in what is now the US though. The land used to be filled with tribes everywhere in every state. Just in the area i grew up in, there was once great tribes such as the Delaware and the Seneca, along with hundreds of smaller tribes. I took an entire course in college just about the tribes that used to live in the area. | |||
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Sin Dogan 860 Uoodo Original Blend Armored Trooper Votoms Canned Coffee! Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6299 days Last view: 6298 days |
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Originally posted by Vulkar That is the most twisted logic I have ever heard. It wasn't just land. Many Native Americans were raped, tortured, killed, etc. Palestinians want land only because they want someplace to live. They don't want to take over it as much as the Israelis want to keep it. They just want to live there. Many have been displaced, lost jobs, families, everything. (edited by Jin Dogan on 02-02-06 12:20 PM) |
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Wurl Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6336 days Last view: 6336 days |
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| It's not just land; The Israeli army keeps Palastinians from being able to function in day to day life with seizures, walls, ect. The best comparision I ever heard for it was this: It's like a house; The Palastinians control most of the rooms, but Israel controls some rooms, but also all the hallways. (edited by Wurl on 02-02-06 10:13 PM) |
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Vulkar Goomba Since: 12-02-05 Last post: 6673 days Last view: 6673 days |
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Originally posted by Jin Dogan Ermm...you misunderstood something somewhere around here. If the indians went through the same change is whats being discussed. Not what actually happened. Also, by now then for them its really that they had relatives that fought each other, as they have entered out society, and out blood. And I'll reply to your more recent points if you explain why it is that whenever peace is about to be reached(no more problems, ordinary life again), then palestine attacks. Actually, I sort of just did...but oh well. |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Vulkar, what the HELL are you talking about? Please explain, in clarity rather than a cryptic cypher. | |||
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Deleted User Banned    Since: 05-08-06 Last post: None Last view: 6295 days |
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| While it's nice that you're so interested in their affairs, perhaps you should actually start spelling it right *cough* palestinians *cough* | |||
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Wurl Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6336 days Last view: 6336 days |
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Originally posted by Thayer To be fair, I'm semi-drunk most of the time. |
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Imajin Bot Local Moderator Currently affected by 'No syndrome' ---!!!  Since: 12-05-05 From: Camineet, Palm Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| A one-state solution will not work. Palestinian demographics are such that the Palestinians will outnumber the Jewish population soon enough, and the Jews want their own state anyway.
As for human rights violations, what about Jordan, which had annexed and granted citizenship to the West Bank Palestinians, but now does nothing as they languish in camps? What about the other Arab states, that have refused to give full citizenship to the Palestinians because they want to continue the Arab-Israeli conflict to prevent their citizens from rising against the corrupt rulers? But we can talk about past atrocities as much as we want- but what we have to deal with are the facts on the ground, now. In my opinion, the current peace process is a failure. Essentially it seems to go like this: 1) Israel opens up to the Palestinians; 2) Palestinians and Israelis make deal; 3) Suicide Bombers continue to kill Israeli civilians; 4) Israel takes action against terrorism and gets condemned by the world. Look at the recent "truce", where Palestinian groups attacked Israelis but news organizations only mention the truce being in danger when Israel decides to defend itself. The best we can hope for is a Gaza Strip + Most of the West Bank Palestinian state. East Jeruslaem will likely not be a part of it, thankfully the Israelis have been good about allowing Muslims to rule over their holy sites (did not Jordan, during it's rule of the city, set up a military base with deconstruction equipment near the Wailing Wall? The threat there was clear, but Israel has done nothing of the sort near Al-Aqsa). |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Or the Israelis open up, and then open fire.
It goes both ways in this conflict. |
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Wurl Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6336 days Last view: 6336 days |
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| Plus Israel is rarely condemned by the whole world. |
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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Palastine (The General Conflict) |
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