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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Many soldiers are to young.... |
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Crashman Grizzo                   Since: 12-26-05 From: Maine Last post: 6332 days Last view: 6332 days |
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| too young to be a soldier? Lets look at it. You have to be 16 to drive a car. 18 to vote or smoke cigarettes. 21 to drink. 18 to legally shoot and kill someone as a soldier.
And at the ripe old age of 18, what reason do you have to defend our nation? How many children does the average 18 year old have to defend? How many leave wives and homes behind to go to war? How many actually understand our judicial process, or have served un a jury? How many can quote sections of the constitution from memory, or can defend articles of it in an intellectual conversation? What does america mean to these people? What does freedom mean to them? Are they mature enough to know what they are defending beyond cable tv and mcdonalds? The army wants 18 -21 year old men, cause they are supposedly very fit and can be molded easily into ilitary doctrine. But are they too easily molded? As in vietnam, what happens when these kids come home, and all they know is war and regimentation. How will they fit into society when their chief occupation for several years was living in mass groups of men, dressing in body armor and firing high velocity rifles at sand colored blurs that might also be people. People say we are defending our freedom. Freedom to do, what? In america your free to make money, buy and sell land, and to starve in the streets. To be kidnapped, or raped, even murdered. To file for bankruptcy and to abuse your wife and kids. Or your husband. Most of these kids got into the military to pay for school, or something similar. Now, they feel obligated, because of MONEY, to fight in a foreign land. I'm sure that some or even most would proudly answer that they serve their country, and wouldn't have it any other way. And for them, its true, cause its all they have ever known. When a 35 year old man joins the army to serve, he does so with a gravity that far outweighs the 18 year olds. the older man leaves behind his job, his family, his obligations to society if he serves in a social capacity (preacher, teacher, etc). He also chooses to serve with the knowledge that he joins up so that those 18 year olds can build a life like his, or even better. So that his children can grow up and never hae to fight another war. Soldiers should live a life, before being asked to take someone elses. No one should ever ENJOY being a soldier. |
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Sinfjotle Lordly? No, not quite.    Since: 11-17-05 From: Kansas Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| The military is a life though. It can be turned into a career, hell, you can stay in the military and retire from it and be well set.
18 is the age people are considered adults, and its a choice. They aren't to young, they just want something different. It may be hard for you to understand, but people do things because they don't have another choice, or the other choice may be to hard. Personally, I'm joining the Air Force, you want to know why? It will set my life up perfectly. Absolutely perfectly. Not only that, but I'll be helping keep people alive (and sadly killing people). Its a choice, people make choices, even though you may not understand or agree with their choice, it is their life, and as such, it is their decision. It isn't like they're making you join the army after all. |
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Koneko Plasma Whisp  Since: 11-17-05 From: Tartarus. We get faster internet than you. Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by Dracoon Really? I saw his post as a thinly-veiled attack on the possibility of a draft, should World War Three break out. I think I understand what you're trying to say, Crashman. May I add that the real issue many people have with the 18-21 year old kids in the army is that there's a higher risk of them dying, and more broadly, that a large portion of a generation of young people will be wiped out. My personal opinion on the wider subject here is as follows. It's everyone's choice what they want to do with their life, and if they want to murder others in the name of their country, so be it. After all, the ones they murder are soldiers, so they don't count, right? There's no way the people you kill as a soldier are anyone's children, parents, or close friends, because they're soldiers, so it's okay to kill them. And if you couldn't detect that thinly veiled macabre and cynical sarcasm, I feel sorry for your family. |
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Wurl Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6337 days Last view: 6337 days |
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| I'll cap any draft officer that tries to make me fight somebody else's war. | |||
Sin Dogan   860  Uoodo Original Blend Armored Trooper Votoms Canned Coffee! Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6300 days Last view: 6298 days |
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Originally posted by Wurl Yea, and that's the point. They want you to be full of anger so you can channel it into a well aimed bullet to the "enemy". |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Well that's the propoganda aspect of it. Do you think that the Japanese and German citizenry were portrayed as they ought be during WW2? Do you think that the North Koreans show Americans as civilized people?
Nonetheless there is more to the military than shooting and killing. |
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netscape Grizzo Since: 12-30-05 Last post: 6325 days Last view: 6321 days |
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Originally posted by Wurl I'll send the draft officer a greeting card from Canada myself. |
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Kutske Since: 11-19-05 Last post: 6642 days Last view: 6642 days |
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Zamboni: Nonetheless there is more to the military than shooting and killing. Like bombing, capturing, torturing, brainwashing, hiding your homosexuality from your commanding officer, kissing up to the president regardeless of his competence, talking to the questionably-neutral military-employed psychiatrists so they can convince you that you aren't horrible or responsible for bloody murder, etc. netscape: I'll send the draft officer a greeting card from Canada myself. Wimp -- stand and fight. If you want to avoid the draft, get into politics and try to change the law so that others don't fall victim to it as well. But seriously, I was just on the phone with Canada the other day, and they said they don't want you, or any other draft-dodgers. Also, they said you guys look like dorks. You know, America is the scariest regieme on the face of the planet, I think if America "asked" them to, the Canadian government would forcably return draft-dodgers to US custody. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide... |
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netscape Grizzo Since: 12-30-05 Last post: 6325 days Last view: 6321 days |
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Originally posted by Kutske How am I supposed to fight for political change while drug off fighting some random country bush wanted a war with? They can come to Canada too. I'll vote for peacenik's, but the draft notice comes Canada looks alot better then jail cause I ain't gonna fight one of bush's fool wars.
You're funny. You need to chillax dude. Canadians have a peacenik culture. Their army tends to be used for foreign aid, and you think they like the US government that much you're nuts. |
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Arwon Bazu Since: 11-18-05 From: Randwick, Sydney, NSW, Australia Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6296 days |
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Originally posted by Kutske I'd have thought that'd be political suicide in Canada. |
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Kutske Since: 11-19-05 Last post: 6642 days Last view: 6642 days |
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netscape: You're funny. You need to chillax dude. Canadians have a peacenik culture. Their army tends to be used for foreign aid, and you think they like the US government that much you're nuts. I don't think you understand what I was implying; America could threaten Canada into giving up the draft-dodgers, because America is powerful (militarily speaking), and Canada's...not so powerful. |
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netscape Grizzo Since: 12-30-05 Last post: 6325 days Last view: 6321 days |
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| On second thought believe what you want kid you got alot to learn about the world. (edited by netscape on 01-22-06 06:45 AM) (edited by netscape on 01-22-06 06:50 AM) |
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Salmon Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-18-05 From: Norway Last post: 6311 days Last view: 6300 days |
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Originally posted by Dracoon I don't know, something here just doesn't seem to fit in.... |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by Kutske Well, Kutske, you've just exhibited a complete and utter lack of reality concerning politics and a complete disconnect from the truth about military service. First off America CANNOT attack Canada. There is no way in hell that they could economically survive it and there is no way that it could ever be a legal war. Besides, remember Vietnam? Our army didn't even have a functional air force at the time...Yet America didn't attack us when we took in people who were on exodus from a regime trying to force them to fight in a morally reprehensible war. netscape I'd actually say that Canada has a mixed culture. There are a lot of people up here that yammer on like idiots 100% behind any war declared where it's not declared against us (and even then...). However I'd say that rather than having a culture of peaceniks that it ought to be recognized that Canada has a culture of respect for the civilian populace. Canada has been participating in every war America has ever been in for a very, very long time. Vietnam? We sent irregular troops under the American flag and contributed heavily to the American war effort...even if our government was speaking out at the time. Same thing as the current war. There is just a big show between the governments when in truth they're just sitting around laughing because Canadians are still contributing to the war effort. |
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Sinfjotle Lordly? No, not quite. Since: 11-17-05 From: Kansas Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by The SomerZOriginally posted by Dracoon Hypothetically, you're piss poor, but you're fit. You have only decent educatoin, graduated high school, and you're having problems with life and money. Join the army, or keep being poor. Its still a choice, but its greatly unbalanced. That was what I was trying to get at. Not the literal, you have to do this because their is no alternative. You can do whatever the hell you want, but if its a stupid choice... |
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netscape Grizzo Since: 12-30-05 Last post: 6325 days Last view: 6321 days |
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Originally posted by Zamboni Flying Machine? Cool. I have a few friends up there. Just posting what I know from that. One time I was like where do you go when you have a draft? She was like "um I dunno.... We don't have drafts." At any rate I agree the government up there has alot more respect for the civilian populace. From things like universal health care, not requiring resignation of previous citizenship, not sending people to jail for major portions of their lives for pot, to the lack of a draft registration, and such. Something we'd do well to learn from down here. |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Historically there was never a draft because of the massive Francophone population. Outside observers of Canada need to understand the demographics of this nation before passing judgement. I'm merely going to assume that your friend was an Anglophone living in English Canada.
However I'm not talking about the government - the government body itself has subjected Canadians to experimentation time and time again. RCF Gaatchtown: Canadians were exposed to Agent Orange and its predecessor to gauge their potency as a weapon. Canadians have been exposed to radiological seeding by British and Americans during the growth of their nuclear programs (actually, so have Americans, Brits and other Commonwealth states (South Africa and Australia, especially)). Canadians were a part of an extended experiment in memory alterations and brainwashing through the use of lysergic acid and electro-shock therapy as well as methods of torture. In addition the most telling example is that the prarie and forest lands of Canada were exposed to biological and chemical weapons during the advent of our weapon projects. And then there are countless other examples. Canada is a unique nation in so far as that Canada is a concept that transcends the ideals of government - we may have an assymetrical federalist set-up but it doesn't change the fact that Canada is a unique and organic nation when compared to many other Western and non-Western examples. |
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Arwon Bazu Since: 11-18-05 From: Randwick, Sydney, NSW, Australia Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6296 days |
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| You didn't even have conscription during the world wars?
Hmm. |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| It came very late in the war and was vastly ineffective and opposed by the French citizenry...as well as the English. | |||
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Kutske Since: 11-19-05 Last post: 6642 days Last view: 6642 days |
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Zamboni: First off America CANNOT attack Canada. There is no way in hell that they could economically survive it and there is no way that it could ever be a legal war. And since when has illegality ever stopped the Bush administration? Also, I said threaten, not attack. And I mean behind the curtains, not openly. There is a lot that goes on without the public's knowledge. I mean, the Black Sites have been operating for decades and we've just now found out about them. Don't you think there's a lot of other things we don't know about? Zamboni: Besides, remember Vietnam? Our army didn't even have a functional air force at the time...Yet America didn't attack us when we took in people who were on exodus from a regime trying to force them to fight in a morally reprehensible war. "Morality" has no place in war -- everyone think that they're good and right and that their enemy is wrong and evil, so why would you even use such a term? Morality is only used in war terminology when the public needs convinced to support the campaign. Zamboni: Vietnam? We sent irregular troops under the American flag and contributed heavily to the American war effort... So technically, you could call them "irregular hunters?" Kehehe... Zamboni: Outside observers of Canada need to understand the demographics of this nation before passing judgement. That isn't true to outside observers of any country? |
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