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| 0 users currently in ROM Hacking. |
| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - ROM Hacking - "Hack" - What's in a Name? |
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asdf Link's Awakening ಠ_ಠ                    Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6285 days Last view: 6283 days |
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Some people in this world will start a debate over anything. 
I agree that "ROM Hack/ing/er" is a term that has been established. Hack, in this case, is simply another definition for the same word. "Hacking" can refer to modifying game data. It can refer to getting illegal access to something on a network/the internet. It can even refer to cutting something using a repeated slashing motion. And consider this. What if we somehow managed to make a common, everyday word - say "it" - be officially defined as a slang word for a sexual act? Would that mean people would have to stop using the word "it" in everyday speech? And what if we did change it to Game Modding? Since 99.9% of all ROM Hacking communities are on message boards, wouldn't that get confused with moderation? If we changed it to editing, couldn't it get confused with the old DOS program, EDIT? And what about "ROM" itself? It means Read Only Memory. Although that can technically apply to what ROMs are, it's almost too technical. Why not change it into something simpler? (and I'm being sarcastic) So why don't we rename this forum to The Forum Dedicated to the Act of Using Various Different Tools in Order to Change Illegal Copies of Video Games So That Certain Aspects of the Game Such as Levels and Text is Different From What It Originally Was or something?  (edited by asdf on 01-19-06 09:16 PM) |
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Sukasa Birdo Not quite as active as before. Xkeeper supporter Xk > ||bass I IP Banned myself! Twice!   Since: 11-17-05 From: Somewhere over there Last post: 6284 days Last view: 6283 days |
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| Well, the original term "hacking" was applied in journalism, when people would "hack" out a report very quickly trying again and again in a short time to get it right, which led to the term being used for "Hackers" trying repeatedly to get into locked areas by trying different password again and again.
Then, "hackers" like us tried repeatedly to find out a game's data formats, and then change it, which, I think, is where the term came from- trying repeatedly to figure out the format. Then, you had to continue trying in order to get the data right. Now, hacking can be applied in that you continuously re-make levels bit by bit in order to make them perfact (using the editors), just like the original "hackers" in journalism. Therefore, the term can be applied here, for the people who use LM or temporal flux or whatever. |
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Apophis Ropa  Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6283 days Last view: 6283 days |
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Originally posted by NetSplit Maybe because those of us who do the real work don't want to be lumped in with the rest of you? |
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NEONswift Bee  Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6284 days Last view: 6283 days |
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Originally posted by DragonsbrethrenKinda proves my point...if the doom folk changed it then there is absolutely no reason for us not too. Not saying that we neccerserily should but anybody who profoundly claim we cant because its been established isn't taking into account that things change all the time... coco pops to choco pops and back again...Jif to Gif...name changes happen all the time. Originally posted by asdfI've never heard anyone outside of Nintendo bitch about us downloading their games. I've owned many copies of the sonic games on consoles and PC but that didn't stop me from buying the Mega Collection for my Gamecube. Same with Nintendo's own games. Metroid Fusion, Metroid Zero Mission, Minish Cap, If the games good enough ill actually go out and buy it. Its not the copies that are illegal (unless you don't own the originals...which I'm fine with cause I still own Zelda on my SNES) but rather the editing of them. Noticed how Nintendo cramped down on Fan games of Zelda wiping out such titles and Link's Odyssey. What was that about? That wasn't ROM hacking in any way or form but they still screwed it over because they dislike people using their avatars. If I was to hack a Capcom game would they care less, they most likely wouldn't until I attempted to sell it to the market. The problem with the word hacking is that as BGNG says its too connected with something elitist and illegal and for the most part its not illegal. Stick with hacking cause it easily rolls off the tongue or change to something else. When it comes down to it I'm modifying/hacking/reverse engineering Zelda3 and enjoying it; that's all that really matters. I'm just stating my two cents but as with most in the community I do say when all said and done, does it even matter...? (edited by NEONswift on 01-19-06 10:09 PM) |
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Sliver X Since: 11-22-05 From: Panicus Last post: 6293 days Last view: 6291 days |
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| The term "Hacking" in regards to electronics in general goes back for *decades*; before digital circuits, even; modifying analog electronic circuits was called hacking.
Basically, hacking something is figuring out how something works, then making alterations based on said aquired knowledge, usually with the pretense that you have no documentation whatsoever on how the hacked object works. Yes, this is reverse-engineering, yes this is "modding", but the term Hacking has been in use for so long that I think it's basically retarded to go on some holy mission to change the term (Like 99% of anyone who hacks anything even knows, or cares, that this place exists; most of the ROM hacking community itself doesn't even come here). People who confuse Computer Hacking (Like OMG, L33t H@X0r stole my mega hurts) with the traditional meaning of the term are usually very computer/technologically ignorant in the first place... If it's some kind of stigma that ROM Hacking happens to use the term in the correct sense, who cares? |
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Dragonsbrethren   440  Since: 12-01-05 From: New Jersey Last post: 6470 days Last view: 6470 days |
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Sorry, I just had too... |
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Dan Purple Leever Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6292 days Last view: 6283 days |
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Originally posted by ApofisuOriginally posted by NetSplit What real work have you done that allows you to actually say that? |
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Apophis Ropa Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6283 days Last view: 6283 days |
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| I've recoded a gameboy game's title screen loading code to fit a new title screen I made... I've partially documented the level data for Sweet Home (really need to get back to that). I've changed zelda to mapper 3 (okay, so I got most of the code from a post by disch in one of the archives), made each dungeon have a seperate key counter, and added an arrow counter. That enough?
Edit: I also forgot a few NES hombrew demos I've made in the past. (All of which were on my now-dead old hard drive) (edited by Apofisu on 01-20-06 08:29 AM) (edited by Apofisu on 01-20-06 09:14 AM) |
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NetSplit Paratroopa Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6445 days Last view: 6445 days |
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| Not enough for you to elevate yourself to an elitist position that allows you to look down upon other people because their hacking skills are not yet as good as your own, no. (edited by NetSplit on 01-20-06 10:51 AM) |
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Rom Manic Since: 12-18-05 From: Detroit, WHAT?! Last post: 6283 days Last view: 6283 days |
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| Thank you Netsplit for reminding us how only the highest can judge. We certainly have no skills or traits that supercede theirs, in any way shape or form. | |||
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NetSplit Paratroopa Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6445 days Last view: 6445 days |
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| Assuming that that response is meant to be sarcastic, I'm reminding you that this is a community made for ROM hacking, not for people to say how much better they are than everyone else and how they shouldn't be lumped into the same category called "ROM Hacker" as everyone else. Get off your fucking high horse. Everyone here hacks ROMs. Some do more advanced hacking than the rest. Some are better than other people. Big fucking deal. No amount of work you've done ROM hacking is going to make you anything beside a ROM Hacker, just like the rest of the people in that category who you've been lumped in with. There's no need to treat them as inferior because they're not as good as you are at hacking ROMs.
To sum it up, get off your fucking high horse. Thanks much. |
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Apophis Ropa Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6283 days Last view: 6283 days |
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| Let me clarify. I didn't mean to say I'm better than anyone. I just feel there should be a distinction between 'rom hackers' and 'rom editors', with the latter term referring to people whose work is limited to the use of game-specific editing software. (Not counting blocktool, provided they do the ASM work themselves.) | |||
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Rom Manic Since: 12-18-05 From: Detroit, WHAT?! Last post: 6283 days Last view: 6283 days |
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Originally posted by NetSplit Man, it's fuckin comfy up here. So allow me to elate you on what I meant by my VERY sarcastic post. You suggest there are better ROM hackers out there. I agree. They can pull of some crazy shit where some can't. I agree. But because of this, they alone have the right to judge anothers work? Not bloody likely. I'm just a firm believer in equality. Anyone can tell me that my work is going nowhere and it doesn't bother me. Why should it? But when people fight over who should be able to judge, thats just morally wrong for me. So forgive me for being an asshole. I'm sorry. |
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NetSplit Paratroopa Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6445 days Last view: 6445 days |
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| Where did I say you can't judge people's work? Unless I made a mistake somewhere that I can't locate (in which case, please point it out), I argued against judging PEOPLE, not their work, because your skills are so much better than their own. I'm all for judging people's work; I like to help people out, for example, by playing through their hacks and telling them, primarily, what I think really needs to change, as well as the things that must not change because they're so good. I'm not for judging people just because someone thinks he's so much better than everyone else that he can bash the people for the reason of the work they put out not being as good as his own. Apparently this issue was simply a misunderstanding of one another's posts.
Apofisu: Well okay, that's a bit better, but I still don't see what the point is (and, based on the criteria you've established for one who does 'real work,' I do real work, too), nor why you would really want this unless you were simply desiring to be in a better category than 'the rest' of the people here. It's all still hacking, though. Some do it with tools and some do not. I don't see the necessity for a new category of ROM hackers. Hell, editors are commonly a stepping stone when hacking, and are still used even by people who are better, though they're not as relied upon. But again, apparently it was another misunderstanding; I apologize for that, but it really did seem to me based on your earlier posts that you were saying something different. *shrugs* |
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Imajin Bot Local Moderator Currently affected by 'No syndrome' ---!!!  Since: 12-05-05 From: Camineet, Palm Last post: 6284 days Last view: 6284 days |
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Originally posted by Apofisu Why, because you like feeling special? |
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Sukasa Birdo Not quite as active as before. Xkeeper supporter Xk > ||bass I IP Banned myself! Twice! Since: 11-17-05 From: Somewhere over there Last post: 6284 days Last view: 6283 days |
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| So, would that make someone who uses a hex editor as well, to add in new code by hand or document existing code, is a hacker considering that they use.. say.. Lemetaal or LM or whatever? | |||
Yoronosuku Toss Tortoise Since: 11-17-05 From: Massachusetts is my new home.. Last post: 6283 days Last view: 6283 days |
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There is way too much eliteism that goes on. This community is here to help people, not act like you are better than them. If you only make hacks just to boost your ego and status, then I feel sorry for you. You missed the whole point--hacking (I used the word) should be fun  |
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Apophis Ropa Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6283 days Last view: 6283 days |
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Originally posted by ImajinOriginally posted by Apofisu No. I just tend to have my own rom hacking. I define rom hacking as basically hacking something to pieces (breaking it down into its most basic elements) and then working from that. Originally, this is what rom hackers all did. Now we have all these editors where the first half of that process is done for you. I've never liked change, so I can't bring myself to alter my definition to better fit the current state of the community. Not that editors are a bad thing. (edited by Apofisu on 01-20-06 06:10 PM) |
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NEONswift Bee Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6284 days Last view: 6283 days |
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| My previous comments on changing the name were just light hearted remarks that in theory would most likely never work and to be honest doesnt really matter. What matters is that we get along.
What we are is a COMMUNITY. Now the best communties work when people feel comfortable being who they are and doing what they do. Moaning about what skills you have over others or what you lack never go down well and in the end just bring about feelings of anger or pain. A community works because it has members of all talents and all backgrounds and each and everyone one of them adds to the community. If at the very least all they do is download and play the hacks we make (or try to  ) then they are still imo adding to that community.
You think Nintendo looks down on the people who buy there games or Miyamoto is actually an elitist git who hates all those who are below him? Hell no he respects and appreciates all that they add, as little as that may be. (edited by NEONswift on 01-20-06 07:04 PM) |
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Guy Perfect Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6285 days Last view: 6283 days |
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| Reviewing the posts in this thread, I have made a few observations...
First, I never once suggested that the community change its convention and start differentiating between "cracking" and "modding" when it comes to the usage of the word "to hack." As my first post says, I was simply inquiring about the real meat and potatoes of what it means "to hack" and whether or not it was truely descriptive of modding. I'm certainly not trying to say "Hey, I have an opinion! Let's do/not call modding 'hacking'!" Specific usage of terminology is of little consenquence to me. If words have useful functionality in a community, then by all means go for it. So long as it's not something blatantly problematic like calling green red or right wrong. All that matters is that there is a distinction in usage where we can "hack a game" or "make a hack," enabling us to discern the particular activity being described. I have also noticed that comments about attitude and elitism certainly appear to be relevant just by reading the posts in this thread. Why is there so much hostility? Is the definition of a word so important that it requires the most agressive of defensive remarks? Are people such that they either want modders to be called hackers for the sake of elitism, or for modders not to be called hackers for the same reason? Such things are predominantly selfish, and I see no need for it. If there's enough of an offense to pit members of a community against one another for something as petty as "You fiend! You have misused a word!" then my only response is that of pity. They say that those with an inclination to technology choose to work with machines because they have no people skills. If usage of a word is too much for someone to handle, then this forum is not the place for him to be. (edited by BGNG on 01-20-06 09:58 PM) |
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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - ROM Hacking - "Hack" - What's in a Name? |
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