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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - ROM Hacking - "Hack" - What's in a Name? |
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Guy Perfect                  Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6285 days Last view: 6283 days |
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| The forum seems to have some coding problems. The title of this thread should be the following:
"Hack" - What's in a Name? Disclaimer This topic is controversial, I'll say that right now. I'm 82% sure that this will degenerate into a pointless bickering of opinionated minds, but the other 18% of me wants to know the truth and I don't know of any better way to go about finding it. If this degeneration occurs, then please send me a Private Message with your ideas (since under such circumstances the thread would likely be closed). I would like to strongy clarify that this is not a poll. My purpose for inquiring about the proceeding information is to gain a greater understanding of the ROM hacking community as a whole and not to ask people for their opinion. Any replies to this thread should provide some observable evidence as rationalle. Introduction The term "to hack a ROM" in this community is used bilaterally and typically applied to describe either or both of the following things: • Making sense of a game's mechanics and data formats • Modifying a game to create an original fan work I strongly support both of these activities, for researching, engineering and creativity all play a large role in the realm of unofficial game development. I highly approve of each of the actions listed above. A personal dilema of mine, however, also plagues the minds of several people out there in the world. After a discussion with Matt Green of Press The Buttons, I find myself in a quandary as to the definition of "hack" and whether or not it is approperiate to use the term for both of the activities listed earlier. The concept, from what I have observed, seems to be split into three sections and each are equally valid arguments. This is what I have seen... 1 - Cracking Yields Hacking Anyone who takes a look into unfamiliar ROM data and discovers how it works is, as far as most people are concerned, hacking. Synthesis and reverse engineering are both ways to accomplish this feat, and anyone who partakes in these activities are certainly considered to be hacking. Dictionaries seem to be unreliable, as they define "hacking" as perhaps "to alter (a computer program)" or "to gain access to (a computer file or network) illegally or without authorization." The above description of a "ROM hacker" does not fit either of those descriptions, and the reference cited does not include any alternate definitions which would be fitting. (This paragraph assumes any ROM hackers are using legitimate archival copies of their games) If we were to go by the book and define everything exactly as it is documented, then the dedicated individuals who open up game ROMs and crack their code would not be defined as hackers. I feel entirely confident that I can safely say that most, if not all, of us in this community consider the discovery of significance in ROM data to be truely characteristic of "hacking." Therefore, it is apparent that any formal, documented definitions of "to hack a ROM" aren't necessarily adequate, for they are not applicable to the issue at hand. The Conundrum If cracking ROM data is considered hacking, then what is to become of the act of game modification? Game modding is clearly a very different concept than data cracking, as I'm sure we all agree. Nonetheless, both activities are referred to as "hacking" in this community. 2 - Argument for Modding During specific real-life wars, the defeat of one party occurred as the result of a communications encryption being figured out by the opposing party. Intercepted messages were able to be decoded and critical mission information was made available to the enemy, thusly enabling them to set up operations that would prove to define the outcome of the final battle. This scenario is only possible if two conditions are met: • The encryption format of enemy messages is figured out • The method is used to decode messages sent by the enemy At the end of the day, it's not those who cracked the format who won the war, but those who applied the format to learn the enemy's thoughts and devise a plan of action who won the war. Those who cracked the format are simply an invaluable resource towards the cause. Likewise, the same can be said for ROM hacking. While those who find out what makes the ROM tick are required components of the equation, what they find isn't useful unless someone uses it. Documentation on the enemy's encryption doesn't do much good unless it's used to decode enemy messages, just as documentation on ROM data doesn't do much good unless it's used to make changes to the data at hand. While the argument exists that the documentation of some data can be used to discover the workings of data in other games (such as the MIO0 compression algorithm in some N64 games), the concept continues to fall short as using documentation of one game's data to document another game's data will still only result in documented game data. What use will any of this be unless the data is changed in at least one specific game? These thoughts support the idea that ROM hacking is a two-part process involving the cracking of data and the application of that knowledge. 3 - Argument against Modding While the observations in the previous section may be true, they may be overgeneralized. In the war analogy, the strategists who used information discovered by decrypting messages are simply beneficiaries of the work performed by the encryption crackers. Those who cracked the encryption may not have any further interaction with it once their findings get to the hands of the strategists. In like manner, those who crack game data and share their findings release their grip of the knowledge and may not have any knowledge of what ever becomes of it. For example, there's an untold number of Metroid modifications made with SnowBro's MetEdit, many (if not most) of which he has no knowledge of whatsoever. Once he made the editor, his participation in the creation of fan modifications ended. (This is excluding any personal modifications he may have made to the game with his editor) If a game cracker never makes any mods, does that mean he's not a hacker? Is it required to make a game mod to be considered a hacker? Most would disagree with both statements. Under these observations, it's apparent that it's not a matter of application that creates ROM hacking, but a matter of discovery. These thoughts support the idea that ROM hacking is limited to cracking game data and that game modding is a seperate activity altogether. The Question At Hand All of this contemplation boils down to the following thesis: Is ROM hacking limited to cracking game data or is ROM hacking both the cracking and application of game data? Is ROM hacking the cracking or the cracking/modding? BGNG's Stance I am very borderline when it comes to this concept, as both sides seem equally logical and I see no significant reason to exclude either of them. Nonetheless, the two ideas conflict each other, so saying "I agree with both" is not an option. I have been able to make but one single observation that puts me on one specific side. When a person cracks game data and makes an editor for the game, or if he documents what he's found and someone else uses the document to make an editor, the extent of application ends right there. There is no guarantee that the future users of the editor software will have any knowledge whatsoever of what goes on behind the scenes when they use it. It is required to know how the game works to make an editor, but it is not required to know how a game works to change the game with an editor. Either way, unless the users is also the creator, then the user is simply applying the work of another individual to get the job done. In essence, it is the work of the cracker that ultimately makes a game mod regardless of who wants it to be modded. But instead of giving direct credit to the game cracker, the modding is in the form of computer software following instructions of the one who mods the game. This idea manifests itself as a conceptual barrier seperating a game modder from the actual workings of modifying a game. It's like a glove, where the modder's hand technically never touches the game. For this reason, I am inclined to support the idea that ROM hacking only goes as far as cracking game data and that making mods of games falls under a different category and should not be considered ROM hacking. Invitation I present my ideas as respectfully as I can, so do not feel insulted if what I just said is not the same way you feel about the subject. If you have made observations that I have not, then I invite you to make note of them here in this thread stating your stance on the issue. If there is anything that I failed to consider, please make note of it, for I want to be able to speak of ROM hacking as accurately as possible. (edited by BGNG on 01-19-06 03:39 AM) |
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Dan Purple Leever   Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6292 days Last view: 6283 days |
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| I can definitely see your point (hell, I actually agree with your point), but I believe that the meaning of ROM hacker has been in use for so long, that it will be impossible to change the definition of it. | |||
d4s Shyguy  Since: 12-01-05 Last post: 6405 days Last view: 6303 days |
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Originally posted by BGNG seconded. i was thinking the same for the longest time, but didn't feel the urge to discuss this openly. however, i don't think there'll be a way to establish some term for tool-assisted modification in -for example- the smw community. the reason is that calling yourself a hacker implies being part of some elitist community and that is very appealing to most. nowadays, the term is overused, though. personally, i'd rather choose to not be called a hacker. imho, the terms meaning is slowly shifting from technical expert towards wannabe-elitist. (edited by d4s on 01-19-06 04:58 AM) (edited by d4s on 01-19-06 04:58 AM) |
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The Kins Hoarder  Since: 11-18-05 From: Hurf. Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6283 days |
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| ROM-cracking-formats-and-editing-what-we-aren't-supposed-to-but-it's-not-hacking-really-we-swear-to-god is a pretty catchy name. (edited by The Kins on 01-19-06 05:58 AM) |
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NEONswift Bee  Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6284 days Last view: 6283 days |
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| How about we change it to ROM-Modding? To modify or add modifications to an existing game. What we do isnt too different to the PC game modding community except for the fact that its with home video games.
The modding community alter codes, changes graphics and makes new levels...which is exactly what we all do. Also the word modding is an appealing name as every day new people enter the PC game modding community. Still as d4s says hacking has become too big a name for the community so a change seems almost improbable...still not gonna stop me from calling it that. |
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The Kins Hoarder Since: 11-18-05 From: Hurf. Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6283 days |
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Originally posted by NEONswiftThat and for the most part PC games are built with the intention of actually allowing and supporting modding, rather than people spending months to decrypt every little portion. That, and for the most part modding is legal, but this isn't the place to discuss that. |
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NetSplit Paratroopa Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6445 days Last view: 6445 days |
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| How about we just ignore it? It's just a name, and one that has been around for years and years. Why should anyone care? How about we pay less attention to irrelevent stuff like this and pay more attention to why we're here: to find data and make editors and game modifications. I happen to think that sounds like a pretty damn fine solution. | |||
Rom Manic Since: 12-18-05 From: Detroit, WHAT?! Last post: 6283 days Last view: 6283 days |
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| Reverse Engineering | |||
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The Kins Hoarder Since: 11-18-05 From: Hurf. Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6283 days |
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Originally posted by NetSplitBut bitching about useless shit makes me look busy! |
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beneficii Broom Hatter Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6286 days Last view: 6283 days |
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| I agree with NetSplit. The word "ROM Hacking" is very well established; BGNG may think he may be able to leave his mark on history by making this thread, but "ROM hacking" is here to stay and there isn't much point in changing its name, as that would only create confusion. Plus, I think even if everyone posting in this thread resolved to have a name change, it would not be brought about because it is too well established. | |||
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Rom Manic Since: 12-18-05 From: Detroit, WHAT?! Last post: 6283 days Last view: 6283 days |
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| Maybe so, but I think the correct term is Reverse Engineering... | |||
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The Kins Hoarder Since: 11-18-05 From: Hurf. Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6283 days |
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Originally posted by beneficiiHe should stick to leaving his mark on history by finishing his F-Zero X editor.  |
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HyperHacker Star Mario Finally being paid to code in VB! If only I still enjoyed that. <_< Wii #7182 6487 4198 1828 Since: 11-18-05 From: Canada, w00t! My computer's specs, if anyone gives a damn. STOP TRUNCATING THIS >8^( Last post: 6284 days Last view: 6284 days |
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| This really depends on interpretation. As BGNG said dictionaries tend to define hacking as modifying a computer program. Now suppose I open up a ROM, reverse-engineer some code, and figure out how I could modify it somehow, and document this method so others may make this modification, but never actually make it myself, have I hacked it? What if I modify it in memory but don't save?
However it's important to note that dictionaries don't define a word's meaning, only document it. Words constantly change, with their meanings being ever so slightly altered, new meanings being applied, old ones being phased out, and words being introduced or not used anymore. 50 years ago or so words like 'golly' were common, now they're generally considered outdated. The dictionary didn't cause this. Also 'access' used to be a noun (to have access), but is now often a verb (to access), simply because people started using it as one. And you can bet people didn't start saying 'pot' to refer to marijuanna because the definition suddenly started popping up in dictionaries. The definition is there (I assume  ) because people started using it. |
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Rom Manic Since: 12-18-05 From: Detroit, WHAT?! Last post: 6283 days Last view: 6283 days |
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| Everyone has their place in the spotlight, I suppose. However redundant words get, you can pretty much call it what you want, since there are many terms you can define this hobby as. Reverse Engineerng, Rom Hacking, Translating, etc... | |||
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Xkeeper Took the board down in a blaze of glory, only to reveal how truly moronical ||bass is. Since: 11-17-05 From: Henderson, Nevada Last post: 6283 days Last view: 6283 days |
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Originally posted by BGNGThere was ASCII garbage there, it's gone now |
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Dragonsbrethren   440  Since: 12-01-05 From: New Jersey Last post: 6470 days Last view: 6470 days |
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| This debate comes up every few months.
Did you know, back in the day, they referred to "modding" computer games as "hacking" computer games? They did, do a search for some old Wolfenstein 3D hacks, you'll find them. I'm not sure when the term "mod" took over, probably either because the "real" hackers bitched about the misuse of their term or to seperate the process from cracking, which just about everyone hates. |
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fzeroman Micro-Goomba Since: 01-15-06 Last post: 6615 days Last view: 6615 days |
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| practically anyone who changes a game from its original state is classified a hacker
be it the person who created a program to alter it a person who found a code to manipulate it or a person who uses codes to alter it there should be specific classes of hackers tho like the person who creates a program to change the data to manipulate the game should be called ELITE HACKER a person who just searches for codes to manipulate it should be called ADVANCED HACKER and a person who just uses/inputs codes is BASIC HACKER (also appies to people who use other peoples created programs to alter it) if youve done both BASIC and ADVANCED your practically a MODERATE HACKER if youve done ADVANCED and ELITE your a EXPERT HACKER if youve done all 3 your a MEGA HACKER dont rip into me now 
im just trying to make it basic for everyone |
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Imajin Bot Local Moderator Currently affected by 'No syndrome' ---!!!  Since: 12-05-05 From: Camineet, Palm Last post: 6284 days Last view: 6284 days |
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Oh my god, don't tell me this stupid debate is coming here now.  It was stupid at SSRG, and I think it's stupid here too.
Here's my point: The meaning of words comes from how they are used. That is, if everyone started to use the word "dumbass" to describe a smart person instead, we could consider "smart person" a meaning of "dumbass". Since the term ROM hacking has been used since the process began, there is no reason to change it because you think that the definition of hacking should not include it. Perhaps the word was coined for some other meaning- however, word meaning shifts over time. Words meanings change over time... At one point, the term "Europe" only applied to the island of Crete. However, we don't see movements arguing that Europe should be called something else and the name be returned to only meaning "Crete", do we? |
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Dragonsbrethren 440 Since: 12-01-05 From: New Jersey Last post: 6470 days Last view: 6470 days |
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| Thanks for reminding me where I saw this last, Imajin, it was at SWS2B.
I knew this debate came up somewhere, I probably posted exactly what I posted here, then fled the topic when the stupid level started getting above my head... |
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DahrkDaiz Nipper Plant U wan hax Mario?!  Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6285 days Last view: 6284 days |
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| I think the point of the term ROM Hacking is that a ROM file is an image of hardware ROM, which was not meant to be accessed and modified by anything other than the NES (access wise, not modifying wise), thus we're "hacking" the ROM since it's unauthorized access to the data. |
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