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| 0 users currently in The Pit of Despair. |
| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - The Pit of Despair - Group hack, anyone? |
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Blue Warrior Mole                    Since: 11-18-05 From: California Activity: 60% Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6296 days |
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| Hey, everyone. I just became a member here, but I used to come to the forums a long time ago, so I have some early experience at hacking. I decided to become a member when I thought up the idea of a group hack. And if a group hack has been done before... well, there's me not paying attention.
But, you know how those big companies like Nintendo have a whole bunch of people working on a single game by putting up a division of labor? This is kind of like it. Anyway, I'm not the best in every way of hacking, but I've mastered most of the basics, and I'm an excellent director when it comes to this (in my opinion, anyway =P). This project is untitled, but with a storyline and a bit of volunteering, I would think this'd become an excellent hack. Here's what I think I'll need: (UPDATED 11/24/05) a co-director. If I need more, I'll add them later on. Screw that. We'll just discuss it in my Mario hacking threads. And remember: this is an experiment. If this turns out to be a bad result, at least we'll learn a few concepts from each other. (edited by Blue Warrior on 11-21-05 11:06 PM) (edited by Blue Warrior on 11-24-05 04:23 PM) |
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Golden Yoshi Paratroopa Since: 11-17-05 From: Edison, NJ Last post: 6614 days Last view: 6614 days |
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| Group hacks have been brought up a lot here actually, so you're not mistaken. The problem is that group hacks, especially SMW group hacks, always have dissolved into nothing. I've never seen a playable group SMW hack. The reason they don't tend to work is that people are preoccupied with their current projects to join up with a fellow hacker, and even when people to join up, their work can't all be lined up because each person has other things to take care of in their lives, so it's easy for one person to get sidetracked and slow down the progress of the hack.
If you think you can pull it off, go ahead. See if anyone will help. It would help if you posted information about this project to capture people's interest and want to join. Most of us here work on hacks all by ourselves, and you can always ask questions if you need help with something, plus there are plenty of resources with free custom gfx, blocks, and whatnot if you're not savvy in a particular area. Anyways good luck to you, and welcome. |
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Blue Warrior Mole Since: 11-18-05 From: California Activity: 60% Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6296 days |
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Originally posted by Trinity Right now, I'm just starting on a fresh rom. When I get a crew made, I'll think up ideas and see what the crew can do. When I figure out what we can put into use, I'll get a storyline running and assign everyone on what they're to make. Also, thanks for the greeting. |
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Golden Yoshi Paratroopa Since: 11-17-05 From: Edison, NJ Last post: 6614 days Last view: 6614 days |
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Originally posted by Blue WarriorOriginally posted by Trinity Alright, well just as a warning, any kind of hack that is posted here should contain some kind of information or screenshots. Just picking up a ROM and starting to hack it is not something people particularly care to hear about, they usually like something to see from the hack: screens with plenty of progress will let us know that you are serious about making a hack and not just messing around. For a group hack though, you should come up with a few cool ideas that are within your range of capability so people will think it's doable in a group. If this whole group thing doesn't work out though, you can still try on your own. We are here to help, and there are plenty of resources available that will help you in making a hack. |
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Blue Warrior Mole Since: 11-18-05 From: California Activity: 60% Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6296 days |
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| Alright. I'll have some screenshots tomorrow. | |||
HyperHacker Star Mario Finally being paid to code in VB! If only I still enjoyed that. <_< Wii #7182 6487 4198 1828  Since: 11-18-05 From: Canada, w00t! My computer's specs, if anyone gives a damn. STOP TRUNCATING THIS >8^( Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6296 days |
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| Synchronization is also a problem once you start using ASM hacks and custom blocks, or even ExGFX. Consider a few cases:
1) -Person A makes a level using ExGFX. None are currently in the ROM, so he uses slot 0x80. -Person B does the same. Now you have 2 different people using the same ExGFX slot for 2 different things, and you need to re-sort all the graphics files and change any levels that use them. 2) -Person A decides to add a few custom blocks. -Person B adds different blocks. Now you have conflicting block numbers. Even if you re-sort the block lists, then you have to go through both peoples' levels and replace all the old blocks because their numbers have changed. 3) -Person A makes an ASM hack which conflicts with person B's design ideas. For example, maybe they've changed sprites so that Koopas die instantly instead of leaving their shell behind, but person B designed a level in which you need to carry and kick the shells. 4) -Person A and B both make an ASM hack, and the code occupies the same part of the ROM or otherwise conflicts. You can see how this gets to be a problem... There are 4 solutions I can think of, but each has some big flaw: 1) Put in whatever custom blocks, ASM hacks, and ExGFX you'll be using before any level work is done. This is a poor solution because it may restrict the possible level ideas (maybe someone has a cool idea that requires a certain block which isn't in the ROM) and will probably leave you with a lot of leftover/unused content. 2) Whenever anyone wants to use a custom block, ExGFX, or ASM hack, have them submit a request for what they want to add. The project leader then determines a safe area to add this content (eg finds an empty ExGFX slot). The problem here is that if the project leader is slow to respond, nobody else can do any work, and the leader has to know a lot about everything in question (likely including ASM to ensure hacks don't conflict). 3) Hack up something so that everybody is editing the same ROM. You might be able to get away with setting up a WAN and simply keeping the ROM on a network share and opening it from there, but I'm willing to bet LM doesn't re-read a lot of things that it would need to for this to work, and it'd be pretty slow. Hex editing becomes another problem. When someone opens the ROM in a hex editor, it copies all of the file into memory (or a temporary file), and writes it all back when they save. So if person A opens the file in a hex editor, person B designs and saves a level, and then person A saves their hex edits, the hex editor still contains the old version of the ROM (without the new level), and thus person B's level is erased. (Also make sure this doesn't happen in a single-person hack when working with a hex editor an LM at the same time. It happened to me.  ) You may need to develop your own SMW editor, and I doubt anyone here is up to the task,
4) Don't use any ExGFX, custom blocks, or ASM hacks. |
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ZTaimat  260  Since: 11-19-05 Last post: 6362 days Last view: 6296 days |
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Ooh Ooh! I call over world  *gets out graph paper and a pencil*
...so, how many exits are there? |
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Shane Red Cheep-cheep  Since: 11-18-05 From: IRELAND!!! Last post: 6306 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Well, I happen to have ALOT of wacky level design ideas - both layout and graphic ideas. So I could help make the levels BUT, I have important college work to do which should be done in two and a half weeks so I won't be doing any hacking until then. I can work on some hacking then during december but not too much since I have exams after the holidays. I can fully get back into my normal hacking around mid-january. If thats ok then I'm in but if it's not then sorry. | |||
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Kailieann Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by HyperHacker You could try designating specific ExGFX sets and Map16 pages to each member, that would avoid graphics and block conflicts at least. As for ASM hacks, that would take a bit more work. (edited by Kailieann on 11-20-05 01:44 PM) |
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Blue Warrior Mole Since: 11-18-05 From: California Activity: 60% Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6296 days |
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Thanks for the tips and ideas, Kaileann and Hyper Hacker. I'll put them into consideration.
Originally posted by ZTaimat Undecided. I'm currently working on World 1(?), so all I know is that World 1 will have a large Koopa Factory in the middle of it. You may as well make sketches of it for now, as I have to make sure the levels get done first. Otherwise, you're in! Originally posted by Havik Not a problem. Since I'm an expert level editor myself, I can do the work that you won't be able to get to. So, you're in! EDIT: I got the pictures. I'm too lazy to post them here, so just use this link. (edited by Blue Warrior on 11-20-05 07:53 PM) |
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HyperHacker Star Mario Finally being paid to code in VB! If only I still enjoyed that. <_< Wii #7182 6487 4198 1828 Since: 11-18-05 From: Canada, w00t! My computer's specs, if anyone gives a damn. STOP TRUNCATING THIS >8^( Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6296 days |
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Originally posted by KailieannOriginally posted by HyperHacker Good idea, but Map16 is very limited.  ASM hacks would only be an issue if anyone actually does them, though. |
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Kailieann Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by HyperHacker hmm.. my rom seems to have 14 blank foreground Map16 pages. I don't think anyone's going to find a use for all of them unless they use different pages for different ExGFX sets, which, I don't see any reason why they would.. |
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INSERT COIN Double metal axe  Since: 11-18-05 From: wtf am i bored Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6297 days |
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| I will sign to that level design,
but after when everyone else has implented graphics and blocks because its going to be hard if i make levels when I dont know what they will have in future.  |
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Shane Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-18-05 From: IRELAND!!! Last post: 6306 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Since I agreed also to design levels, a good solution to the whole ExGFX thing would be - the level designer makes the level and the ExGFX is implemented afterwards, in other words, just replacing all the objects and sprites with the ExGFX. Yea it sounds teedious but it works. I can also use blocktool with ease. One more thing, I suggest that the ExGFX that will be used shouldn't conflict with each other too much, like using megaman gfx for one level and then yoshi's island on the next Give the game a specific look |
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Blue Warrior Mole Since: 11-18-05 From: California Activity: 60% Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6296 days |
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Originally posted by Havik Heh, don't worry. I know my graphics. Anyway, here's my current staff: Blue Warrior: Director, level editor, multi-something guy. ZTaimat: Overworld editor Havic: Level Editor (and Block Editor, if you want) Xeruss: Block Editor (Asked by PM) INSERT COIN: Level Editor (For some odd reason, I have the sudden urge to call you "Press Start to Play.") So far, I think that's a pretty good amount of people for a hacking staff. I ought to put in the list of rules here so that everything is in order. 1. If you are about to ask to take part in this group hack, please do not PM me which part you want. I think everyone should know who's doing what before they sign out to a part that's already taken. Havic and Xeruss, you two can keep your positions. 2. You must have my consent before you do any editting. Since there are two level and block editors, you can't simply roll along without telling anybody, as it'll mung things up for everybody else. 3a. For those of you that share a job with someone else, it's both of your jobs discuss which levels you two will do. For example: Havic and Press St-- Insert Coin are both level editors. They both decide that Havic will do levels 3, 66, and 102 while Insert Coin will do levels 2, 59, 121, and 133. It's a further division of labor. 3b. If you can't seem to sort out who does what, tell me, and I'll give you your jobs. Yeah, that's all I can think of right now. I've editted the first post for everybody. View that for some updated information. |
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INSERT COIN Double metal axe Since: 11-18-05 From: wtf am i bored Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6297 days |
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Originally posted by Blue Warrior Give me first a COIN!
So, when we are going to start? AND WE NEED A STORY WRITER!! |
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asdf Link's Awakening ಠ_ಠ  Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by INSERT COIN "Welcome to [INSERT AREA OF PLACE HERE] Bowser has kidnapped the Princess and has taken her to [INSERT LAST WORLD HERE]. Mario must rescue her and Yoshi's' Friends before it is too late." There's your story, or at least an outline of it.  (edited by asdf on 11-22-05 02:53 AM) (edited by asdf on 11-22-05 02:53 AM) (edited by asdf on 11-22-05 02:53 AM) |
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INSERT COIN Double metal axe Since: 11-18-05 From: wtf am i bored Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6297 days |
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Originally posted by asdfOriginally posted by INSERT COIN That story is too overused. Think something like DW:TLC where mario breakfast was stolen or something else. |
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Blue Warrior Mole Since: 11-18-05 From: California Activity: 60% Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6296 days |
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| Exactly. I hate having to be unoriginal, so I'm trying to figure out a story that has something to do with eggs but still doesn't follow the usual "Bowser captured Peach again for the 1528th time" storyline. I think I've almost figured out what the new story will be, as well as the title.
Also, just so you all know, when I finish World 1's levels (and I'm done with a few tests), I'll email the staff an ips patch so you can do your edits. |
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INSERT COIN Double metal axe Since: 11-18-05 From: wtf am i bored Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6297 days |
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| So, we are going to do each our own hack and then fusion them?
Not good. ......we must terminate Terminator! Ok, seriously, WHAT is the plan? |
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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - The Pit of Despair - Group hack, anyone? |
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