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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Spanking bad children: abuse or not? |
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Kutske                  Since: 11-19-05 Last post: 6641 days Last view: 6641 days |
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| Arguing for or against spanking universally is as silly as arguing for or against alcohol universally -- sure, some people use beer to get drunk so as to avoid and ignore the problems in their life, but the unique chemical properties of beer can add delightful taste to a wide variety of dishes. So just because some people get drunk, should there be a universal ban, making innocent Chef Joe suffer unjustly?
Just by nature, some children desperately want to avoid dissapointing their parents, and can learn what is and isn't acceptable in their household just by their parents telling exp Though he didn't elaborate muchly, the question was, "Is it ever apropriate to spank a misbehaving child?" (He really shouldn't have used the term "bad children" so much as "misbehaving children.") The fact of the matter is, some children can be talked to, and some can't. If those who can't be talked to go unpunished, they'll learn that they're untouchable and allowed to do whatever they please to whomever they please, whenever they please without any negative consequences occuring. Your average psychologist will tell you that occasional light spanking for serious offenses of willful disobediance after prior warnings and less severe punishments such as time-outs have been given does no lasting harm to the child. There are people who advocate out-and-out beatings and people who advocate the universal abolishment of spanking, but these types of people represent an unrealistic minority. As for me, I am not a parent in that I have never borne children, but I have played a major role in the upbringing of three children, two from infancy to preteen, and one from birth to twelve years old. I've also participated in Big Brothers Big Sisters of America as well as several other local youth mentoring programs. In my experiences, I've come to devise a plan for parenting, should I ever become one; a rewards system... To be implemented once the child is old enough to accept responsibility for its actions and to understand that its actions effect other people (probably around four years), the child will accrue points (displayed on a dry-erase board placed somewhere in the house) for doing chores and things of that nature, and lose points for misbehavior. A list of do's and don'ts will be composed and displayed near the dry erase board. I've come to understand that unless rules are hard-written and in clear display, children tend not to respect them -- I mean, it can look flimsy if you merely tell them what is and isn't acceptable. They could argue with you, "nuh-uh! yea-huh! nuh-uh!" If things are written down, obedience is more likely. Once a certain number of points are reached, the child can spend the points and recieve some sort of reward -- maybe we'll go out for ice cream, take a visit to a playplace like Chuck E. Cheese, things of that nature. I'll try to shy away from the points being used to buy toys, because I think that many children are extremely suseptable to wanton materialism -- I am extremely unmaterialistic and I think that's due in large part to the fact that my family was strapped for cash when I was young and I rarely got to buy new toys. Priviledges, too, can be earned, such as extra time on the tv/computer/videogame, staying up later, getting a pet and so on. I also think that subjecting myself to this system alongside the child will help to establish an equality and bond, and to provide fairness. That's the one thing I hated more than anything else in my early years; the adults around me were utterly exempt from the rules I was subjected to. They used curse words in front of me, but I got in trouble for repeating them, they lied to the neighboors even though I was punished for being caught in a lie, they even used cheating to get themselves out of trouble, something I'd have been seriously repremanded for. Like I always say, you can't respect someone who doesn't stand on equal ground to you. I've heard parents bitch about their children not respecting them, while they're just as guilty of shameless hypocracy as my parents were. And while I'm on this child-rearing subject, I think that something that hurts children far more than spanking or yelling is how they're fooled into believing the world is a much better place than it is. I've never met a parent who didn't praise their child as the smartest/funniest/etc. kid in their classroom. Now, encouragment and inspiring hope is one thing, but children need to learn that they are only one drop in the sea of life, that they're part of a whole, not greater than everyone and everything else. They also need to learn that there are people in the world who want to hurt them. Ever notice that those highly-publicised cases of child abduction are always of parents that live in a protected little bubble alongside their children? The world is imperfect, and sticking your fingers in your ears isn't going to make all the badness go away. Just as much as children need to learn to trust people and to help people and that they can aspire to great things, they also need to learn that they're not the best, they can't win every time, there are people who are going to treat them with unjust harshness, and so on. Balance. Above all else, we need balance -- children and adults alike. |
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Jomb Deddorokku   Since: 12-03-05 From: purgatory Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6297 days |
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| On this topic, there is an obvious bit of evidence on whether spanking is harming society or not which no one has really gone into much. There are countries where spanking is illegal. If not spanking really causes children to become unruly and to think they can get away with anything, then we'd expect that in these countries the people would be out of control monsters. Is this the case? Seems more like that is the case right here in the USA where we spank our kids and have just about as many prisoners and the rest of the world combined. I'm not saying that there is definately a connection between the two, but i suspect there may be. Obviously we're doing something wrong to have so much crime and so many prisoners. | |||
Kutske Since: 11-19-05 Last post: 6641 days Last view: 6641 days |
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| I'd sooner attribute it to the Christian fundamentalism of the United States; our culture, like it or not, is based upon ancient Christian ways of life that opress everything that comes naturally to us humans. Also, watch your words, what you're saying is dangerous; a child was spanked, so he becomes a criminal? As if people don't have enough things to blame for their behavior, let's not give them one more, eh? People need to start taking responsibility for their own actions, instead of blaming it on "the other guy."
I'm not sure if American children are any more unruly than children from any other place in the world. I've heard Britian has some pretty horrendous monsters, as does France. I think the real root of the problem is that humanity as a whole has lost sight of it's priorities. Nobody, not even those strict fundamentalists who lobby against gay marraige, really gives a shit about their family anymore. It used to be that honor and reputation were sought above all else, but now it's quotas and stock portfolios. For goodness sake, we don't even know each other anymore, we've become a society of strangers, a society of paranoid citizenry all of whom fear each other for no good reason, a culture of anonymous groups that speak for masses of what used to be individuals. But now I'm begining to rant about general things. I'll stop here. |
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Randy53215 Melon Bug Since: 11-17-05 From: Greenfield, Wisconsin (U.S.A) Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6294 days |
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Depends on the situation and where the child is being hit. Persay I was like 7 and I stole something or such, then my mother smacks my hand. I believe that would be fine. Now I got spanked very rarely and I have never been grounded. But honestly Martin Lawrence said it best. If your child acts up beat there a |
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Jomb Deddorokku Since: 12-03-05 From: purgatory Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6297 days |
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| Kutske - I actually have to agree with you that fundamentalism is a very negative thing. Fundamentalism of any kind, not just christian.
Our culture is not just based on christianity, this is something which certain people want us to believe, but its not really 100% true. Our culture is a very complicated and contradictory mix of puritanism (which came from the early christian fundamentalist settlers), and old world individualism (where the idea of a democracy and freedom come from). On one hand we are pulled in the direction of being controlled by a church and it's "morals" with little regard for freedom, and on the other we are being pulled towards democracy and free-thinking idealism. I never said that spanking is THE cause of crime, i said i suspect it is related. I dont think its the only cause by a long-shot, more like one piece of a big puzzle, but definately a piece. Another piece is probably the reactionary set of laws we have which can criminalize things which have no business being a crime in the first place, and the prison system we have which can take some guy who may have made one dumb mistake and turn him into someone who really is dangerous. Unless you're saying that Americans are genetically more criminal than the rest of the world then there is some other cause for why we have so much crime, and it needs to be blamed so that it can be addressed. I've heard it said that spanking is illegal in Swedan, last i heard Sweden had an unbelievably low crime rate as compared to the USA, and seems healthier all around, maybe there is something we could learn from them? |
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Kutske Since: 11-19-05 Last post: 6641 days Last view: 6641 days |
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| People constantly point to Sweden as an example that we should strive towards, but you can't just take one or two things you like about a country and say, "Yeah, let's do that." America is a massive, massive country; remember that a good 75% of the countries in the world are no bigger than New York State. Because of the vastly lower population of a place like Sweden, not to mention their huge cultural differences and the disparity in diversity between there and here, they can do things much differently, things that we can't simply emulate just 'cause it works there. If we did things like Sweden, such as instituting a ban on spanking, making welfare much more generous, instituted our own right of public access to the wilderness, modeled our armed forces after Sweden, required all households to carry guns, and things of that nature, there is absolutely no guarantee that the least bit of positive change would occur. Most likely, either nothing or something bad would happen. So it's pointless to say, "We should be like Sweden." We aren't nearly similar enough for you to say, "X thing works well over there, so that means if we do X thing, our situation would improve." | |||
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||bass Administrator  Since: 11-17-05 From: Salem, Connecticut Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| It's this whole "lets never discipline anyone for anything" attitude that creates bratty monsterous children who grow up to be selfish immature adults. If you don't teach kids that there are limits on behavior then they will grow up thinking that there will never be any consequences for their actions. Sometimes a child will get bratty and simply refuse to listen and refuse to accept that bad actions have reprocussions. Times like these are when negative reinforcements such as spanking are necissary to the proper discipline of a child.
Lack of discipline is the root cause of people like Ninja AE. Someone who was properly disciplined as a child understand that there are consequences to actions and that there are limits to behavior in a civilized society. Proverbs 13:24 - "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him." |
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6309 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| I don't think anyone could have said that much better than ||bass just did.
and I don't think anyone here is saying that spanking be the first and only punishment a child ever gets. I think spanking on it's own isn't the most effective form of punishment. It should be used as a last resort when nothing else is working (or can work in certain situations) and should be followed up with an explanation of why the behaviour was wrong (or at least that it was wrong) and then some sort of rewarding of better behavior after the child starts to behave properly. |
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Xeruss Cukeman  Since: 11-18-05 From: Oregon Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| I was spanked as a child, (Hmm... I'm still 13 so depending on who you talk to I may still be a child) but only when I did something wrong, and I seem to have higher morals than those of my peers, I believe spanking is fine, so long as that is not their only method of punishment. | |||
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Jomb Deddorokku Since: 12-03-05 From: purgatory Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6297 days |
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| Kutske - It's not just Sweden, virtually every West European Country I've seen information on, Canada, New Zealand, almost all of the developed world. Sweden is just one place where I know spanking is illegal, should we use a different one as an example? How does the size of the US have any bearing on this discussion? Is the crime problem in this country only based on overcrowding? I know thats not true, I've lived in a rural areas. Why do you think its not possible to learn from other people? Hell, even if we tried something out and it ended up not working for us, well at least we tried something instead of just doing nothing as the problem just continues to get worse. We are much more similar to European countries than we are different, most of us came from there you know. So what do you think could be done about these problems then? What we are doing now (harsh sentences with little or no emphasis on rehabilitation, corporal punishment, etc.) is not working at all. | |||
emcee Red Super Koopa Since: 11-20-05 Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| I don't understand how people can say that if you don't spank your kids they're not going to turn out right, or how others can say if you do spank you kids they aren't going to turn out right. There are literally millions of counter examples to both these arguments.
You don't have to spank your kids. If you can teach them to behave properly without resorting to physical force, more power to you. But if you do spank your kids, it doesn't mean they're going to turn out crazy or violent or something. |
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netscape Grizzo Since: 12-30-05 Last post: 6324 days Last view: 6319 days |
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| One thing though. If you're gonna spank don't wuss out. You spank then apologize all over the place and try to make up for it the kid's gonna learn to use it as a tool to manipulate you.
Also be of calm mind when you do it. You do it out of anger/flustration you're alot more likly to feel guilty, but if you send the kid away for a few minutes while you calm down you're gonna come to a decision you know is just. Plus the anticipation adds to the punishment for the kid. |
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