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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Spanking bad children: abuse or not? |
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Snow Tomato Snap Dragon                    Since: 12-31-05 From: NYC Last post: 6316 days Last view: 6301 days |
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| When my dad used to hit me, it just made me hate him. I didn't think about what I did wrong... I just hated him. I used to have nightmares about him screaming or getting angry, or hurting me. When I was younger.
So no, I don't think corporal punishment is very effective. I think that telling the child "no", or explaining something in an angry voice is more effective. Taking away a toy or taking them home.. something like that. Don't take it to mental abuse, remind the child that it's because you love them. If they're too young to comprehend that, then... they just might be too young to comprehend that what they're doing is wrong. What can a child do at like 3 years old that's so wrong? Cry and carry on at a theater? Remove them from the theater and calm them down.. if they're crying and carrying on.. something just might be wrong. So uh, there you go. My two cents. |
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netscape Grizzo  Since: 12-30-05 Last post: 6325 days Last view: 6320 days |
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| Depends on the kid I think. Some kids won't be phased until you come at them with a landing party of marines weilding klingon pain sticks, and some kids will punish themselves more then you ever could if they just simply think they did wrong.
However anything other then your hand is abuse in my opinion. |
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Shadic The Adventure of Link Perfect Member Since: 11-18-05 From: Olympia, Washington Last post: 6301 days Last view: 6297 days |
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| I can see it being used in a rare situation where like, the kid themself is struggling, and you are unable to get any message of any type across, except a physical one..
But it's not really needed in average parenting. Me, I was hit a few times, (Hit=Spanked,) and I don't really think I deserved any of them. They haven't like, scarred me or anything, but I remember them happening. |
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Salmon Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-18-05 From: Norway Last post: 6311 days Last view: 6300 days |
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| I've said this before and I'll say it again: Children must know why they've done something wrong, not that they've done something wrong. Corporal punishment certainly doesn't help teaching children what it is about what they've done that is bad, and it doesn't teach them anything useful for them to function as members of society.
Also, as it is with Sweden, it is with Norway, it is illegal to hit your children here. |
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firemaker Cheep-cheep Since: 12-13-05 From: Somewhere in a place called Berkshire Last post: 6373 days Last view: 6373 days |
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| Another thing that I thought of is the idea that if it is the first time the child has commited this action then he should not be coporally punished because it is the first time. After all it is only fair that they learn from their mistakes. | |||
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6309 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| okay, I think something needs to be explained.
Your parents (speaking to everyone) grew up in a time where beating your kids (and literally beating them black and blue) was expected to keep them in line. So your parents grew up with that same mentality. However, in the last 10-20 years we've started to realize that spanking/beating isn't the only way to punish a child and it's certainly not the best way to deal with problem children. So what has this caused? Threads like this really and people thinking that spanking is the worst thing that could ever be done to a child. I was spanked as a child, a young child. When I did something wrong I would get a swat on the butt and my parents told me what I did wrong and tried to explain why it was wrong (which is nearly impossible to do to a 2-5 year old). Once I was about 6 or so they stopped doing it because they could speak to me and I could understand on a level that I couldn't before. I agree that spanking can be overdone and can cause emotional harm. I realize that there are kids that are beaten when they do something wrong by their parents. However, in all of this I don't think the problem is spanking. If a spank is what I defined it as earlier (one swat on the butt) then it's not doing much harm. It's when the parents screams and yells and repeatedly hits a child when it's doing harm. I agree with you guys that children shouldn't be taught to fear their parents, but unfortunately lots of kids now don't fear or respect their parents at all. 8 year old kids swear at their parents and the parents don't do a thing about it because they might emotionally harm the child. Okay, maybe I'm crazy, but if an 8 year old child is swearing at his/her parents, there has already been emotional harm and dysfunction and unless something is done it will only get worse. I also don't think spanking should be the first thing that gets done. If a child does something wrong and knows immediately that they are going to get "hit" for it, they will be fearful of making mistakes. However, if it is a last resort method of punishing a child (ie taking away toys/privilages, timeout etc isn't working) then it will do more good than harm for the child. |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Interesting fact, my mom was never spanked by her parents - who didn't believe in spanking. My grandma and her sisters are all horrified by the fact that their kids are/were using spanking as a method of dealing with kids. | |||
Trapster King Dedede Since: 11-19-05 From: Sweden Last post: 6403 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by Ailura True. I donŽt remember if my parents did that to me but I wouldnŽt have liked it either. I rarely got spanked and when they did spank me, I hit them back. It just made me dislike them. So Snow Tomato and Ailure is right about this. If I get kids sometimes, IŽll do my best to not spank them. |
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max Blipper  i'm a pixie !!! Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6556 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by geeogree My parents were never spanked or beaten. |
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Kutske Since: 11-19-05 Last post: 6642 days Last view: 6642 days |
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max: I have a little sister, three years old. When she does something bad (like hitting me, or whatever) I yell at her/tell her that she's done something that's very bad and that she's not supposed to do it. Often after this, she cries and wants to get comforted. You know why? Kids are very good at picking up emotions, and don't like when their family don't like them. This way she realises she's done something wrong, and I don't have to hit her. Hey, double win! Ah, I see. Well, since every child worldwide reacts in the same way as your little sister, I guess you win the topic. Anyway, I'm pretty sure yelling at her is doing a lot more psychological damage than you appreciate. Yelling - from a pediatric psychology standpoint - is far worse than a spanking now and again. Jombie: i felt that i must not be loved because how could you hurt someone you love. Love hurts / love mars / love wounds / and scars ~ Jomb: I've since had all kinds of problems with the law in my teen years. I've had to live in group homes before, so i've talked to hundreds of boys who were also in trouble. Violence in the home and corporal punishment were an extremely common thing to hear about, right up there with parents who simply dont care at all. It was very rare to meet someone in one of these places who had loving parents who never hit them. If i ever have kids there will be no spanking. You can't take personal experience and use that to justify your opinion, because everyone's different. As I said, I was beat silly and it didn't affect my personality whatsoever. For you, it did, but nothing is universal. Also, the parents you describe sound like bad parents to begin with, the spanking is just icing on the cake. Err, what's a better metaphor? Salt in the wound? The SomerZ: I've said this before and I'll say it again: Children must know why they've done something wrong, not that they've done something wrong. That's easy enough to say, but did you consider that most children don't care that they've done something wrong, or why? Children are like destructive little puppies -- they aren't mentally or emotionally developed enough to comprehend things like the dichotomy of "right" and "wrong." Watch Supernanny sometime; all those kids need is a good thorough beating and I gaurentee, they'll never act like that again. Somerball Z: Corporal punishment certainly doesn't help teaching children what it is about what they've done that is bad, and it doesn't teach them anything useful for them to function as members of society. Can't you do both? Spank and explain? The SomerZ: Also, as it is with Sweden, it is with Norway, it is illegal to hit your children here. I believe that hitting your child in Sweden constitutes a Beige Alert. firemaker: Another thing that I thought of is the idea that if it is the first time the child has commited this action then he should not be coporally punished because it is the first time. After all it is only fair that they learn from their mistakes. Excellent point, and I regret not mentioning this right-off. As I've said, children are who they are, you can't control that, so to spank the first time they do something wrong is as useless as never spanking period. Granted, if your child is behaving, or listens the first, second and third time you tell them something (repitition -- gotta give them a few chances, at least three strikes) you may never have to spank them. But again, there's good seeds and there's bad seeds... geogree: Posted on 01-06-06 12:20 PM Good points, I agree with most of what you said, especially that children don't respect their parents these days. I say it's because children go unspanked. I feared my parents like some people fear the wrath of God Herself, which isn't something I reccomend, but case in point, people are who they are -- not everyone is affected by how they're treated in their youth, or the enivironment around them. |
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max Blipper i'm a pixie !!! Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6556 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| "That's easy enough to say, but did you consider that most children don't care that they've done something wrong, or why? Children are like destructive little puppies -- they aren't mentally or emotionally developed enough to comprehend things like the dichotomy of "right" and "wrong." Watch Supernanny sometime; all those kids need is a good thorough beating and I gaurentee, they'll never act like that again. "
You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Also I have no idea what Supernanny is, but there are several shows airing in sweden where they show totally misbehaving kids and good nannies "solving" things by not beating but by explaining and simply enforcing rules. And I think you missunderstood what I meant with yell, with that I mean "HEY DON'T DO THAT (explanation in calm voice of why)". I am currently studying in a childcare education, and we have been taught never ever to hit a child. It is simply not a good way to teach. I doubt there's any place (ie school) in the world where spanking or beating is taught as a legitimate form of enforcing rules/teaching. People who think it is good are simply misinformed. |
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Salmon Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-18-05 From: Norway Last post: 6311 days Last view: 6300 days |
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Originally posted by Kutske Ok, please do explain: What school of pedagogical thought are you basing your statements on? That what you're saying there ain't nothing like anything I've never heard no one say before. And what the heck is Supernanny? Seems like some of you guys have not really caught up with the development of pedagogy in the 20th century. Children are no longer seen as "incomplete humans", but rather as human beings with the same rights as you and me, as well as many other special rights to protect them. The 20th Century, which was rightly proclaimed by some to be the "century of the children", has seen the creation of such things as the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child (which - surprise, surprise - the US has not ratified (making them and Somalia the only countries not to do so)). Children are now treated as proper human beings, and just as you wouldn't use corporal punishment against an adult, you wouldn't use it against a child. And Geeogree, my parents were never subjected to corporal punishment. But thank you for generalizing the experiences from your back yard to the rest of the world. |
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6309 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| SOMERz: that was the general situation for most parents back then. I didn't mean all, so shut your hole.
have I said that I think "corporal punishment", which is a drastic exageration, was the best thing to do? NO I said it can be an effective tool in raising kids. All kids are different and at a young age not all of them can be reasoned with like adults can be. The Century of the Children? Yeah, the century where children had more rights than their parents. The century where kids can do what they want and parents have to work 2 or more jobs to pay for it. I think the 21st century should be the century where parents take back the power over their kids that is rightfully theirs. edited SOMERz so that the z was not Z  (edited by geeogree on 01-07-06 12:41 AM) |
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Thexare Metal battleaxe Off to better places  Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by geeogree Speaking of children... 
Anyway, I think both sides are exaggerating a bit too much here. As geeo has said, not all kids can be reasoned with, and sometimes such punishments as taking away a toy may not fully convey the message (that they did something wrong, but not always what it was or how bad it was). At the same time, I think his second paragraph (that is, the second block of text, not the second doublespaced sentence) is also a gross exaggeration and neglects to mention countless examples of parental stupidity. Perhaps this is why many people think that children can only be disciplined through spanking. If the mature adults or near-adults aren't willing to listen, who can expect a young child to be? |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| So, if you can't reason with someone like an adult...you hit them? That seems like the reasoning of a child to me!
Perhaps where you came from, the kids were spoiled rotten. Where I am from one of my closest friends (who, oddly enough, comes from an East European immigrant family) was never hit. He was never lavished with gifts. But that may be a hallmark of good parenting on the part of Jeri (his father) and I Can Hardly Pronounce It, Let Alone Spell It (his mother). I think the 21 century ought to continue parenting the way the 20th century did, however rather than putting a focus on material goods (easier said than done!) put a focus on the rewards of work which can be wholly immaterial and are garnered through time proven bonds...like friendship. geeogree - delienating the choices of bad parents who lack the knowledge to deal with their children (turning to hitting, beating or other stuff...kind of like mine) as the fault of the child who reaps the rewards of a decrepit society and poor parentings is completely regressive. It's like how my grandma justifies what she did to my father when he was a child - saying that she ought to get the Original Sin out of him. Hitting kids is not the sign of a BAD parent, it is however the sign of a parent who lacks ability. |
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Thexare Metal battleaxe Off to better places Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by Zamboni Flying Machine? Eh, I'm not saying it's the best idea by any stretch. I do think that, as long as it's not overused, it works, but I'm sure there's better ideas out there. As for bad parents, I can't say I had the best or the worst. Looking back, I see plenty of room for improvement though. My grandmother resorted entirely to failed guilt trips (ruined by too often being overdramatic and making it hard for me not to laugh at her because of that) or spanking, and my mother has to have been (still is, I can see it in how she treats the dogs) one of the most inconsistent and easily-manipulated people I've ever met. So, there. Now you can pin it on me not having any good examples to learn from, if you so choose. |
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Jomb Deddorokku  Since: 12-03-05 From: purgatory Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6297 days |
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| Kutske- If we cant use personal experience to justify our opinions then what the fuck are we supposed to use? Base them on superstitions? You misunderstand about my parents. I was spanked, not beat, which i thought i explained. There were never any marks or scars left, nothing like that. But when i was a small child that wasn't the point, the point was i was being overpowered and subjected to what seemed like violence to me. My father has been a great father other than that. Hell, he even stuck by me through all the trouble i was in. But it took many years for me to be able to actually talk to him, not really till i was an adult, because as a kid i was just too worried i'd somehow end up doing something wrong and get beat, so i avoided him as much as possible. | |||
Ryoku Tooky Since: 01-07-06 From: sandiego CA. Last post: 6435 days Last view: 6435 days |
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| When im bad my mother does slap me back in line, but spanking, well its sometimes necessary, but sometimes adults can go overboard, and thats when it becomes abuse. | |||
Sparx Waddle Doo  Since: 11-18-05 From: San Diego Last post: 6307 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Yeah, there's a limit. They should only do it a little, but they shouldn't abuse there power. I'd never abuse my kids. | |||
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Ryoku Tooky Since: 01-07-06 From: sandiego CA. Last post: 6435 days Last view: 6435 days |
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| Well then again there are the kids who get out of hand, to where they think that they can rule over there parents. Thats why some parents have to be more physicly strict on there children so that they can grow to be respectful. |
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