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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Spanking bad children: abuse or not? |
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Crashman Grizzo                   Since: 12-26-05 From: Maine Last post: 6331 days Last view: 6331 days |
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| When I was young, and when I was bad, I was spanked. It was not often, but it was necessary, and whatever the hell i did to rate a spanking was NOT repeated.
Across the world, similar punishments are standard coarse. Does anyone remember the case of the american kid who was caned for spray painting a car? Shout back! |
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Peardian N-Z KvSG #193 is up!    Since: 11-17-05 From: Pearl Island Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| No, not really. I mean, if it's extreme, then yes, but otherwise it's necessary.
Spanking? Yes. Savage Beating? No. |
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DarkSlaya   930 Gamma Ray  Since: 11-17-05 From: Montreal, Canada Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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Originally posted by Peardian Exactly. As long as you can draw the line between these two, I see nothing wrong with it. |
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Thexare Metal battleaxe Off to better places  Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| Hmm...
As long as it's not done for every little problem, I have no problem with it. If the child is scared of the parent, there's something seriously wrong, but at the same time it can be very effective when used as needed. But that steps into the realm of policing bad parenting, which is a tricky discussion, so... as long as it's not excessive, it's not abuse. I don't think that a wooden paddle should be used, either. My grandmother, unfortunately, disagreed with me there.  |
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Arwon Bazu Since: 11-18-05 From: Randwick, Sydney, NSW, Australia Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Hitting little kids must be fun. | |||
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Cymoro Administrator    Since: 11-17-05 From: Cymoro Gaming Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| Listen, parents, the next time your kid is whining while I'm trying to watch a movie in a theater, or eat dinner at a resturant, I swear to god I will kick his little ass out of the fucking place. This would all be averted, of course, if you got your kid to stop being such a brat. Hitting is suggested.
(I suggest hitting until a certain age, usually 8 years old.) |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| I don't suggest hitting.
I suggest positive reinforcement and giving attention to your god damn kid. Hitting doesn't fucking work. I was there. It does nothing. In fact, I'd say that it causes anger issues if people are overzealous in dishing out the punishment as my parents were. Spanking, et al. has a time and a place. 1242. |
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Sin Dogan 860  Uoodo Original Blend Armored Trooper Votoms Canned Coffee! Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6298 days Last view: 6297 days |
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| Yea, hitting doesn't really work all that well. I think always showing you love your kid is always key. Being helpful and loving to them on many different levels is also great. I find it really hard to hate YOUR kids because to me, having a child and raising them correctly seems like the greatest accomplishment ever. | |||
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Silvershield 580  Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6306 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| My parents were among the most loving I've ever seen. I got all the attention I could've ever asked for as a child. But I still got my ass kicked when my behavior called for it.
Now, I don't encourage wanton brutality against misbehaving kids, but a spanking (or something more, if the situation calls for it) is a useful and acceptable tool in disciplining a child. If he says a bad word, a bit of soap in the mouth goes a long way, or if he hits his little brother, allow him to experience a bit of physical violence as well. It's not brutal or inhumane, it's necessary in raising a person who won't think he's entitled to everything and then some. But, when appropriate, shower the kid with all the love and affection he could ever ask for. |
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Rydain Sir Kibble Blaze Phoenix Runs with the Dragon Within  Since: 11-18-05 From: State College, PA Last post: 6299 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| I oppose corporal punishment. I don't think that all of it is abuse per se (I understand the difference between a bare-handed pop on the butt and a beating with a belt), but I hardly feel that it is necessary. Corporal punishment may deter the child from their undesired behavior, but it does not teach them why the behavior was wrong. Instead, it teaches them that authority figures get to hit them, that authority figures are to be feared and resented. In my view, it is far better to use logical consequence punishments that leave a lasting impression without violence or hypocrisy and teach the child that you mean what you say. If your kid is acting up at a restaurant, tell them to settle down and say that you will take them home if they don't. If they continue to misbehave, stay true to your word and leave. The kid will very quickly learn that the logical consequence of misbehavior is having to go home instead of being out and enjoying yourself. As another example, say that you have already told the child not to play ball in the house. The child plays ball in the house and breaks something. You therefore take the ball away for a noticeable period of time and find some way for the child to help replace the broken object (deduct it from their allowance, have them do extra chores to "earn" the money). This teaches them that misuse of something will get it taken away and that they need to make amends for something that they damaged.
The catch is that you must be prepared to follow through. (Otherwise the child learns that "no" means "maybe", which is incredibly counterproductive.) Above all, the child needs to know that you are making rules to help them, and they will listen to you because they do not want to disappoint you. This is essentially how I was raised. Though I can't claim to have been perfect (who can?), I was generally well-behaved because I wanted my parents to be proud of me. Originally posted by SilvershieldI understand that physical aggression without justifiable reason (e.g. self-defense) is undesirable behavior, and thus, the child must be punished for hitting his brother. But why punish him with more hitting instead of using an alternate punishment that helps the child learn empathy? Hitting a child to teach him that hitting is wrong strikes me as counterproductive. It may show him that the act was a no-no, but it also teaches him that his caregivers are hypocritical, which can lead to decreased trust and respect in the long run. |
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max Blipper  i'm a pixie !!! Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6555 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| Hitting defenseless kids cause you're a bad parent and haven't raised him good should be (and is in sweden) illegal.
Edit: Also, hitting a kid cause they hit their little brother is a very bad argument. Remember, "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind". Spanking/hitting your kid has always for me been the ultimate sign of bad parenting. If you hit your kid, you do not deserve to have a kid. Simple as that. (edited by max on 01-03-06 07:52 AM) |
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Silvershield 580 Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6306 days Last view: 6294 days |
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To call corporal punishment (thanks to Rydain for that term, I couldn't remember it for the life of me  ) an example of the "eye for an eye" mentality is ultimately inaccurate, I think. In the case I outlined - that is, spanking a kid for hitting his little brother - a physical punishment just happens to be an appropriate measure. I wouldn't advocate breaking the kid's toys, for example, if he does the same to his sibling, nor would I expect a parent to curse at a child who's learned a new bad word.
Like I said before, my parents are among the most loving I've ever seen. My dad, while fairly aloof by nature, is an excellent father figure and I respect him more than anyone. My mom is his opposite, taking every opportunity to make sure that my brothers and I are made aware of her love for us. I kind of resent your opinion, max, that corporal punishment is a universal sign of bad parenting. If anyone I know deserves a child, it's my mother, who might as well have been born for the job. She's the most loving mother I know, but has the nerve to seperate her fondness for her children from the fact that, at times, her children do indeed screw up and unavoidably need some sort of punishment. My two siblings and I were physically disciplined when we were growing up, and I sincerely think we're better people for it. On the other hand, my ex-girlfriend was physically abused - note the difference in terminology - as a child, and she is displaying a number of problems to this day. There's a line between the two. Not even a fine line, just a definite distinction between what's acceptable and productive and what's unacceptable and brutal. |
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firemaker Cheep-cheep Since: 12-13-05 From: Somewhere in a place called Berkshire Last post: 6372 days Last view: 6372 days |
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| Well nothing wrong with spanking bad children. But there a few things people should ask themselve when they do it.
1. Are they going overboard. (beating the child doestn't help the problem.) 2. Does the child know that it is for his/her own good? 3. Is the parent enjoying it 4. Is the child learning from the mistake If you do answer yes to the first one or no to the rest then you should seriously stop and think about what you are doing. |
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| I think it's useful on young children... and by young I'd say under 6 or so. Maybe 7 or 8.
After that age you should be able to talk and reason with a child about what problems are occuring and how to solve them. Before that you are trying to reinforce somehow that a choice the child made was wrong and you can't teach that easily by "loving" the child. You can reinforce good behaviour in a child.... but not so easily bad behaviours. |
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emcee Red Super Koopa Since: 11-20-05 Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| I agree with everything geeogree said. Young children need both positive and negitive reinforcement. Not nessicarily to teach them the difference between right and wrong, but so they understand who is the authority figure. Too often I'll be walking through a grocery store and I'll hear some kid literally yelling at their parent to buy them something, while the parent meekly tries to appeased them or explain why they can't get it (even though they normally do anyway). The child actually believes they are the ones in charge. When a child is older you can begin explaining to them the consequences of their actions beyond a spanking (like how it effects others), and you can discuss decisions with them, letting them have input, but they should always understand that your say is final.
Of course, you should never beat you child. You should never hit them with a belt, an extension cord, a branch, a cane, or anything else besides a open hand to the backside. There are only two reason people do that: because they are hitting out of anger, or because the child is getting too old to be hit, and an open hand is no longer effective. Hitting can't be the only form of punishment, and if its all that works after the age of 10, you're doing something wrong. The best behaved child I know is my 4 year old niece. Since she was old enough to do something wrong, she has gotten a smack on the butt for it. I just spent 3 days over there and didn't see her get hit once. Because she wasn't doing anything wrong. She just got a bunch of new toys on Sunday, as part of a late Christmas. She'll pull them out and play with them, and normally put them back when she's done. If she forgets, someone we'll remind her before she can do something else. She doesn't argue, or complain or cry, she just goes and picks it up, because she was told to. This is how all children are supposed behave, if you're walking through the store and your kid is screaming "Mom, get me that Pokemon game now!", you have failed as a parent. |
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Kutske Since: 11-19-05 Last post: 6641 days Last view: 6641 days |
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| Bender gives the best advice of all. "Have you ever tried simply turning off the TV, sitting down with your children...and hitting them?" Another quote, from some comedian I saw on Comedy Central awhile ago, "I don't understand why parents beat their children, when emotional scarring lasts so much longer."
In all seriousness, I echo Silvershield's sentiment about loving parents being able to use corporal punishment effectively. We humans are built with a sense of pain in order to teach us what not to do (i.e. stick our hand in fire or step on a sharp object). Parents can take this inborn knowledge we all have and use it to discipline their children. I believe that in our early years, we're more nature than nurture (some kids are simply destructive and enjoy it, some are more quiet and calm -- regardeless of who is raising them and how) so measures need to be taken to exert some degree of control. And in case you're wondering, I believe at some point in our lives, the whole "nature/nurture" thing no longer applies, and we become beings of choice. As for me, I had my ass beat up and down the lane. For me, that wasn't helpful simply because I've never liked my parents, but I can imagine a scenario where it'd have been acceptable and useful. |
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max Blipper i'm a pixie !!! Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6555 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| Do you guys realise, you don't have to hit a child to make them understand they've done something wrong?
I have a little sister, three years old. When she does something bad (like hitting me, or whatever) I yell at her/tell her that she's done something that's very bad and that she's not supposed to do it. Often after this, she cries and wants to get comforted. You know why? Kids are very good at picking up emotions, and don't like when their family don't like them. This way she realises she's done something wrong, and I don't have to hit her. Hey, double win! Hitting someone is illegal, that someone being your kid doesn't change or justify anything. |
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Ailure Mr. Shine I just want peace...  Since: 11-17-05 From: Sweden Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| Meh, there's alot of punishments better than hitting the kid in question. If they like something alot, take it away from them just for a day. Just be able to say no. Hitting them is uneccesary, and even illegal in some countries. In Sweden it is, as Max said.
Just taking away a toy is enough, trust me I hated it when I wasn't allowed to play on my NES becuse I done something bad back then. |
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| I don't think anyone here is saying that spanking alone is the way to raise kids/a family. If you do you may want to rethink having kids.
However, spanking is an effective way to get a point across and in no way can be considered beating. (Assuming of course that we consider a spank as a bare hand across the butt one time). Consistency is key. A punishment needs to be immediate to be effective. If it's not then the message gets lost. It's hard to take anything away from a kid following his mother in a shopping mall or at the grocery store. A spank however would get the point across quickly. Plus, spanking is a quick punishment when the parent (like many do) has little time. max: do you think yelling at your sister and getting angry at her is better or worse than her getting a smack on the butt? I'm gonna steal this quote from Kutske to prove my point. "I don't understand why parents beat their children, when emotional scarring lasts so much longer." |
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Jomb Deddorokku  Since: 12-03-05 From: purgatory Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6296 days |
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| What a parent may perceive as a spanking, a child may interpret as a beating (being much smaller and everything). There are tons of better ways to deal with misbehaving children other than this. I was spanked as a child. I was not beaten, though it seemed that way to me at the time. What it taught me was to fear my father, and that whoever is bigger and stronger can do whatever they want and beat up anyone who does'nt listen to them. It never once made me think about what i had done wrong, but instead created an enviroment of resentment, i felt that i must not be loved because how could you hurt someone you love. I've since had all kinds of problems with the law in my teen years. I've had to live in group homes before, so i've talked to hundreds of boys who were also in trouble. Violence in the home and corporal punishment were an extremely common thing to hear about, right up there with parents who simply dont care at all. It was very rare to meet someone in one of these places who had loving parents who never hit them. If i ever have kids there will be no spanking. |
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