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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Impeachment? |
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emcee Red Super Koopa                 Since: 11-20-05 Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| Just a few months ago talk of impeaching Bush was just for the far left. No one took it seriously, and no one thought it would ever happen. In the last few weeks though things have changed (see domestic spying thread). There is now a real push in congress to draft articles of impeachment. And the criticism is no longer just from Democrats, several Republicans have comdemned the president on his authorization of illegal wire taps, lack of support of the antitorture bill, and in some cases his handling of the war in Iraq, and the intelligence leading to it. There seems to be growing frusteration among more "Libertarian Like" Republicans with the amount of power Bush has given himself.
By impeachment I mean like what happened to Clinton, an investigation and a trial by Congress. I don't simply mean kicking Bush out of office. I would be very happy to see an impeachment. Not because I want Bush out of office (he doesn't have that much longer anyway), but because I, like alot of Americans, want answers. We've been at war for 2 and half years now over weapons that never existed. Why? How much did the administration know about the (false) intelligence they made the case for war on? How high up did orders to torture inmates come from? Why does the President feel it's in his authority to warrant domestic wire taps? It seems at this point an impeachment is the only way there will be any real investigation into these issues. To me there was enough evidence in the Downing Street memo to warrant an impeachment, even before the most recent scandal. Now we had the President come right out and admit to an impeachable offense (whether he thinks that's what it was or not). (edited by emcee on 12-30-05 10:42 AM) |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES    Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| Impeachment - not just for blowjobs! | |||
Crashman Grizzo  Since: 12-26-05 From: Maine Last post: 6331 days Last view: 6331 days |
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| An honest investigation should be carried out. The Just have nothing to fear from scrutiny by the law. | |||
Wurl Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6335 days Last view: 6335 days |
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| Bush is, by international code, a war criminal. Clinton was just into getting his dick sucked, which is understandable. If Clinton was pushed towards impeachment for something like that, I hope war criminal Bush can be impeached fully. | |||
Snow Tomato Snap Dragon  Since: 12-31-05 From: NYC Last post: 6315 days Last view: 6300 days |
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| You know what happens when I violate federal law?
I get thrown in prison. Bush is most likely going to argue that the limits places on his power are unconstitutional, which I wouldn't put past him. His administration changed the definition of "cruel and unjust punishment", so people who are just being questioned and held liable for no real crimes could endure a new kind of interrogation. It's just one abuse of power after another. The most recent scandal, people are starting to notice that maybe he's taking it a bit too far. I noticed with Iraq. Pre-emptive war? What was that? Was their any reason we had to strike immediatly without proper warning? It's not like they were posing a direct threat.. they may have had weapons. What was the rush? Thousands upon thousands have died because they might have had weapons? That's a little rash. And if he has nothing to hide, why is he so taken aback by investigations? I'm pretty sure every president has had to endure investigations at one time or another, it's the way democracy works. Checks and balances, we have to make sure that you're doing what is clearly defined as your job and NOTHING ELSE. Violating federal law is something else. It's when people stop investigating the government.. that when things will get very out of hand. (edited by Snow Tomato on 12-31-05 02:07 PM) |
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| you know, it sounds to me like democrats are just trying to find a way to impeach Bush since Clinton was impeached....
this isn't the first time I've heard people call for impeachment of Bush... and it probably won't be the last now, I haven't followed what has happened... nor do I care overly.... I just think it's stupid. |
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Snow Tomato Snap Dragon Since: 12-31-05 From: NYC Last post: 6315 days Last view: 6300 days |
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| If you haven't been following what's been going on keep out of this forum.
Blind patriotism is exactly what is the problem here. You don't know what's going on, you don't even know how he's abusing his powers and harming actual people, and you're blindly following him everyday. In a democracy, and I'll say it again, you're not supposed to be afraid to say "Hey, you did something unjust and against the will of the people!"... He's violated international and federal law. He is a WAR CRIMINAL. It's time to face the consequences, and one of them is impeachment. |
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Thexare Metal battleaxe Off to better places  Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| Tomato, geeo lives in Canada last I checked.
Which makes me wonder why he cares at all, really. |
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Jomb Deddorokku  Since: 12-03-05 From: purgatory Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6296 days |
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| I would so love to so Bush impeached. But my confidence in my governments ability to even know what justice is, let alone go after it, is so low that i highly doubt a damn thing will be done. Whats even worse is the vast majority of the public wont even care, or will blindly believe anything the government tells them anyway. Bush will probably find some non-issue to bring to center stage and get the attention off of him (such as gay marriage) | |||
Metal Knuckles Tendoru  Since: 12-21-05 From: New Hampshire Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| Personally, I haven't taken sides in politics yet. But I do know that Bush has done so many damn things wrong, and you know what? Impeachment isn't just for presidents who have committed war crimes (or recieved blowjobs, meh), but also for those who have been deemed incompitent and unable to handle their job well.
Bush went into war in Iraq claiming that there were WMD's there, and investigators have reported none there. Bush went into war in Afganistan with the intent of destroying the Taliban, but the Taliban haven't been destroyed. Intelligence pointed towards an attack on 9/11, but Bush didn't act upon it. You can say that every president has numerous faults, that none of this is new. But how often can you say that their faults have led to thousands of American deaths and the destruction of two nations, one which could have most likely been avoided in the first place? Bush is not handling the job of the U.S. President well at all, and has led us nowhere but down. That in itself should be enough reason to have said man impeached. Although honestly, do you think Cheyney would do much better. Right now, yes. Republicans and Democrats alike are not approving of the Presidents actions. But the number is still to small to impeach Bush, and that's where the main problem lies. By the time we will be able to do something like that, it will be to late. He'll have either blown us all up in an act of stupidity, or have left the office already. |
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Imajin Bot Local Moderator Currently affected by 'No syndrome' ---!!!  Since: 12-05-05 From: Camineet, Palm Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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Originally posted by geeogree Well, at least we'd have a legitimate reason to impeach Bush... Of course, the problem with impeachment is that it really won't do anything- do you really think the Cheney Administration would do much different in say, Iraq, or on the recent wiretapping authorization, than the Bush Administration? |
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Cymoro Administrator    Since: 11-17-05 From: Cymoro Gaming Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| Just remember: Clinton got impeached for lying while under oath about getting a hummer, not for actually getting one in the first place. That's a serious offense, and was not a plot by the Republicans to get him out of there (although, it did help their case against him).
Now, Bush has violated a few things, but a lot of things he's done has received the OK from Congress. He's not the allmighty here, and does require some authorization. Hell, he'd be in violation of the War Powers Act if it weren't for Congress okaying the extension of the tours of duty in Iraq. You want him to stop what he's doing? Get more liberals into congress. I guarantee you, he won't get the okay for anything. |
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Snow Tomato Snap Dragon Since: 12-31-05 From: NYC Last post: 6315 days Last view: 6300 days |
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| He went above the law to do this. These powers are not given to him. He has violated the system of checks and balances our government is based around.
It isn't right. But they're just going to use this issue to make Democrats look like they don't care about national security.. |
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Crashman Grizzo Since: 12-26-05 From: Maine Last post: 6331 days Last view: 6331 days |
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| I definetly think that a serious investigation is warrented, and that all the facts should be considered int he name of JUSTICE and not national security. | |||
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emcee Red Super Koopa Since: 11-20-05 Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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Originally posted by Cymoro Right. People seem to forget that Clinton wasn't impeached for having "sexual relations", he was impeached because he committed perjury. However, the Constitution simply lays out what are impeachable offenses ("Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors)", it doesn't say that a president must be impeached if they commit one of these offenses. Obviously each situation is different, and even though lying under oath is a serious offense, there is definitely much worse (and more important) things the chief executive of the federal government and commander-in-chief of the US armed forces could lie about. In other words, lying about a blowjob (and a cigar incident) didn't warrant an impeachment. It was just only thing, among the numerous things being investigated, that there was enough evidence to even consider impeachment, so the Republicans ran with it. I'm not saying there isn't political motivation behind the Democrat's call for impeachment, but sometimes you can be right for the wrong reason. Originally posted by Cymoro As far the wiretaps go, this is exactly the issue, he didn't get the okay from anyone. He was the one giving the okay, even though he obviously doesn't have that authority. And yes, he did get the okay to stay at war, but no one wants to impeach him for simply keeping us at war, the issue is how he got the okay. The CIA processes all kinds of intelligence everyday, whether it be documents, rumors, or the result of interrogations, some of it turns out to be true, some false. That's why its called raw intelligence. Before intelligence is ever presented to a Congress commitee, it has to be confirmed by numerous pieces of intelligence. The Administration picked through the raw intelligence, and pulled out thing that supported its claim and presented it to Congress. That's how he got the okay from Congress, Republicans and Democrats. And guess what, the intelligence was all false, and we're still at war. (edited by emcee on 01-02-06 09:48 PM) |
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| we're still at war because leaivng the region would totally screw it up, not because of faulty intelligence.
How many people has Bush wire-tapped? Who are they? And why were these wire-taps picked? Maybe we should look into that information before we start deciding whether to impeach. Maybe these wire-taps have saved lives. |
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emcee Red Super Koopa Since: 11-20-05 Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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Originally posted by geeogreeMy point was we wouldn't still be at war if the faulty intelligence hadn't put us there in the first place. Originally posted by geeogreeThe end does not justify the means. (edited by emcee on 01-03-06 12:03 PM) |
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Imajin Bot Local Moderator Currently affected by 'No syndrome' ---!!! Since: 12-05-05 From: Camineet, Palm Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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Originally posted by geeogree Well, I don't think pulling out of Iraq would cause a collapse of the region- The Syrian regime would end up more stable, for one thing. Jordan would probably get attacked a few more times, and of course Iraq would become hell. The reason we haven't left is because the US does not like to go into war without finishing what we've started. Originally posted by geeogree Well, unfortunately I can't find my source so this could be faulty memory, but two organizations I've heard mentioned are the Society of Friends (yes, the Quakers), and the Catholic Workers Party... |
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Metal Knuckles Tendoru Since: 12-21-05 From: New Hampshire Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| The society of friends and the catholic workers party? Wow, never thought that religious groups like those would harbor terrorist plots. Has a bit of a Davinchi Code ring to it.
So has Bush given a reason for the wire tapping of these groups, or has it just been said that he's done it? |
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emcee Red Super Koopa Since: 11-20-05 Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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Originally posted by Metal KnucklesMore on that Two things you should notice: 1: The article doesn't directly point to Bush as the one authorizing these specific taps. 2: It doesn't give any real hard evidence that the taps even actually occurred. If we can learn anything from Bush, it's not to jump to any conclusions without solid evidence. |
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