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Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - ROM Hacking - General Super Mario 64 hacking / TT64 Progress thread New poll | | Thread closed
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User Post
Guy Perfect









Since: 11-18-05

Last post: 6296 days
Last view: 6294 days
Posted on 02-21-06 01:39 AM Link
It's not so much an issue of understanding it... I'm just confused as to why you posted it. It all just looks like a loading routine to me. Is there perhaps something significant that I'm overlooking?

EDIT:
And Lingo seems to be going to great lengths to be different. "Repeat" in place of "For" and "Othewise" in place of "Else"... I find it hard to keep a straight face, but if that's how it goes, then that's how it goes.

EDIT2:
By the by, I was playing the game the other day in Project64 in wireframe mode, and the skyboxes are indeed drawn as spherical objects instead of cubes in the game. Dunno if that's helpful, but it's an observation I made.

(edited by BGNG on 02-21-06 12:39 AM)
(edited by BGNG on 02-21-06 12:42 AM)
VL-Tone

Paratroopa








Since: 11-18-05

Last post: 6485 days
Last view: 6485 days
Posted on 02-21-06 10:24 PM Link
I don't know why I posted it either... I guess I needed to see if I wasn't taking a completely dumb approach... Should I delete this post?

Lingo is originally based on HyperTalk, the scripting language of HyperCard, an older development program from Apple built by Bill Atkinson, MacPaint's creator. HyperCard was one of the main inspiration for the World Wide Web. But bragging-rights aside, HyperTalk was a very high-level language. Lines of codes could almost be read aloud as a correct english phrase ie: "put 10 into x" or "put z after character 10 of line 2 of field hello". The term "for" was not self-explaining so it was not used, repeat made more sense.

At first, Lingo was very close to HyperTalk, but it evolved in subsequent versions (I started on Director 2.0 in 1991, and the current version is 10) to include dot notation and eventually an alternate java-script syntax.

The "repeat" is still used instead of "for" because of backward compatibility, not for the sake of being different.

But while both FOR and REPEAT can be used to make loops, they don't work the same anyway, so what's so crazy about replacing the word FOR by something that actually makes sense? This is the kind of thing that you only have to learn once.

"IF THEN" structures use "else" not "otherwise", just like about every other language: 

If x=1 then 

   dosomething

else

   dosomethingelse

end if


It's "case" structures that uses the "otherwise" keyword to avoid confusion with IF structures. 

case X of

   1: dothisifXis1

   34: dothisifXis34

otherwise

   dothisifXisneither

end case


Anyway I guess I sound again like ranting, but I find that these particular observations of yours are nitpicking. Director/Lingo has weaknesses I won't argue about it, but using REPEAT instead of FOR is a non-issue IMHO.

BGNG, I'm not angry at you, I guess that it's the only things that could be said about this boring routine post

As for the skybox, do you have a screenshot of this? What kind of texture mapping does it use?
proffessor_gad

Red Koopa








Since: 01-27-06
From: Mars

Last post: 6325 days
Last view: 6325 days
Posted on 02-21-06 10:43 PM Link
Strange... But I understood. As you can see I am kinda new to programing.
Guy Perfect









Since: 11-18-05

Last post: 6296 days
Last view: 6294 days
Posted on 02-21-06 11:40 PM Link
The approach you're taking for the loading procedure is good. There's probably ways to simplify it, but it's along the lines of what I'd probably do if I understood all the commands.


On second look, it appears that they are not, indeed, mapped as spheres. The polygons that make up the background are translated orthographically across the screen as you move the camera about, so it's more like a sky "plane" than a box or a sphere.

I remember back after cracking MIO0 when I was looking at some Super Mario 64 files. The background textures were all stored in little 32×32 squares instead of one contiguous image. My guess is that those little squares are mapped to the "sky plane" and at the same time assembled like a jigsaw puzzle.

Another observation is that the "sky plane" only appears to account for 180 degrees on the azimuth, with the exception of Big Boo's Haunt (which only shows the full moon once). To fill up the other half of the circle, the game mirrors the jigsaw pieces horizontally.

I also see that there are different numbers of jigsaw pieces for each background in the game. If the course data itself doesn't have information on how to assemble them, you'll have to record the maps by hand when implementing them into the editor.

VL-Tone

Paratroopa








Since: 11-18-05

Last post: 6485 days
Last view: 6485 days
Posted on 02-22-06 02:00 AM Link
I was about to ask if you were sure if they were spheres, because I figured out that you assumed that from seeing multiple triangles in the sky, and I knew it simply could be the 32x32 pixels tiles.

So the screenshot and your theory matches what I thought it was. The 32x32 tiles are stored in a linear way, but from what you found it seems that some tiles are reused to extend the background.
Franklint
Newcomer








Since: 02-23-06
From: Australia

Last post: 6655 days
Last view: 6655 days
Posted on 02-23-06 02:59 AM Link
Yeah, hi.

I'm new here, but I just couldn't think of another way to get in touch with VL-Tone, considering I don't know his/her email address. Anyway, just wanted to say I'm a fan of your Super Mario 64 level editor (soon to exist!). You, David Wonn, and Dom Dunc are my hacking/videgaming/glitching idols. Love the work. Is there an official homepage yet?

Also, I was wondering (now I know a lot of devoted followers have already asked you this), but could you email me (wpridmore@iprimus.com.au) when the beta version is released, as well as when the finished, perfected version is released? That'd be great. Can't wait to see the finished product!

Thanks,
-Franklint (a.k.a. Will Pridmore)

P.S. The above message was primarily intended for VL-Tone, in case there was any confusion.
Raccoon Sam

Boomerang Brother
Custom Title








Since: 11-20-05
From: Correct

Last post: 6294 days
Last view: 6294 days
Posted on 02-23-06 06:36 AM Link
I'd prefer for you to just stay here in the forums until you see a topic called "Super Mario 64 level editor released".
proffessor_gad

Red Koopa








Since: 01-27-06
From: Mars

Last post: 6325 days
Last view: 6325 days
Posted on 02-23-06 03:06 PM Link
Yeah, some of us have been waiting here for a long time.....
max

Blipper

i'm a pixie !!!


 





Since: 11-17-05

Last post: 6555 days
Last view: 6294 days
Posted on 02-23-06 03:34 PM Link
Originally posted by proffessor_gad
Yeah, some of us have been waiting here for a long time.....

you registered like a month ago

edit also you didn't belive vl-tone created the editor so fuck off if anyone doesn't deserve to have the editor it's you

(edited by max on 02-23-06 02:35 PM)
proffessor_gad

Red Koopa








Since: 01-27-06
From: Mars

Last post: 6325 days
Last view: 6325 days
Posted on 02-23-06 03:54 PM Link
I didn't say that "I" was waiting a long time. I said - some of us
Spazzup™

Goomba


 





Since: 01-30-06
From: Canada

Last post: 6605 days
Last view: 6605 days
Posted on 02-23-06 06:02 PM Link
Just to let everyone know I'm still here

Interesting find about the background images. This kind of stuff gets me more psyched for when the beta prog is released
Guy Perfect









Since: 11-18-05

Last post: 6296 days
Last view: 6294 days
Posted on 02-23-06 06:57 PM Link
I just got a reply from my press friend. He says that AMN's archives don't go back far enough and Nintendo will not release requested beta footage that old. I'm afraid you'll have to look elsewhere, VL-Tone.
proffessor_gad

Red Koopa








Since: 01-27-06
From: Mars

Last post: 6325 days
Last view: 6325 days
Posted on 02-24-06 02:00 AM Link
Okay, now that is simply scary. Mario is made up of triangles. The enemies are made up of triangles, the levels are made up of triangles. And now we see that the sky is made up of triangles to?!?!? Or is it simply a marage? To go with BGN's discovery-


(edited by proffessor_gad on 02-24-06 01:04 AM)
(edited by proffessor_gad on 02-24-06 01:05 AM)
HyperHacker

Star Mario
Finally being paid to code in VB! If only I still enjoyed that. <_<
Wii #7182 6487 4198 1828


 





Since: 11-18-05
From: Canada, w00t!
My computer's specs, if anyone gives a damn.
STOP TRUNCATING THIS >8^(

Last post: 6295 days
Last view: 6295 days
Posted on 02-24-06 02:15 AM Link
Everything in 3D is made of triangles. The game can store it as other things, but the graphics hardware generally breaks those down into triangles.

Off topic, how do you have 177 stars? I know 175, but that's the highest I've seen.
proffessor_gad

Red Koopa








Since: 01-27-06
From: Mars

Last post: 6325 days
Last view: 6325 days
Posted on 02-24-06 04:46 PM Link
Actually, I have had 180! But it never gets higher than that. Here is how you do it- In the begining of the game, don't do anything, do not get any stars. Simply use gameshark, to get 175 stars. Now go and talk to the toads that have stars, and go catch the bunny twice. Now you should have 180 stars.
HyperHacker

Star Mario
Finally being paid to code in VB! If only I still enjoyed that. <_<
Wii #7182 6487 4198 1828


 





Since: 11-18-05
From: Canada, w00t!
My computer's specs, if anyone gives a damn.
STOP TRUNCATING THIS >8^(

Last post: 6295 days
Last view: 6295 days
Posted on 02-24-06 06:43 PM Link
Hey, I just realized something. The game has those extra 55 stars, which IIRC are unused Castle Secret Star entries. 55 stars is enough for 7 more levels and another 6 stars (maybe more hidden in the castle). If we could get it to use those for levels, we could potentially add 7 levels!

Two problems with this idea, though:
1) Nowhere to store the high score for coins. (I don't think there's any unused entries for them.)
2) The game uses a single byte to tell which star you've selected/grabbed. It has one entry for each star, and one for Castle Secret Stars, making 106 entries. Anything above 127 crashes the game (presumably a signed byte). We'd have to repoint the table of star names and fix the crashing (which could just be because it goes past the end of the table) to add stars.

Of course we could just add another 55 Castle Secret Stars. Have to be a big castle though.
Spazzup™

Goomba


 





Since: 01-30-06
From: Canada

Last post: 6605 days
Last view: 6605 days
Posted on 02-24-06 10:15 PM Link
Very big

I had a dream when I was young about SM64 actually. For some reason there was a Coca-Cola level in it xD

I'm pretty sure VL-Tone said that the game would crash if we expanded the ROM.. might've misread though.
HyperHacker

Star Mario
Finally being paid to code in VB! If only I still enjoyed that. <_<
Wii #7182 6487 4198 1828


 





Since: 11-18-05
From: Canada, w00t!
My computer's specs, if anyone gives a damn.
STOP TRUNCATING THIS >8^(

Last post: 6295 days
Last view: 6295 days
Posted on 02-25-06 03:19 AM Link
Not if you did it right. You should be able to expand it to 32MB without any big problems, it's just a matter of getting it to use that space.
VL-Tone

Paratroopa








Since: 11-18-05

Last post: 6485 days
Last view: 6485 days
Posted on 02-25-06 07:49 PM Link
Originally posted by HyperMackerel
Hey, I just realized something. The game has those extra 55 stars, which IIRC are unused Castle Secret Star entries. 55 stars is enough for 7 more levels and another 6 stars (maybe more hidden in the castle). If we could get it to use those for levels, we could potentially add 7 levels!

Two problems with this idea, though:
1) Nowhere to store the high score for coins. (I don't think there's any unused entries for them.)
2) The game uses a single byte to tell which star you've selected/grabbed. It has one entry for each star, and one for Castle Secret Stars, making 106 entries. Anything above 127 crashes the game (presumably a signed byte). We'd have to repoint the table of star names and fix the crashing (which could just be because it goes past the end of the table) to add stars.

Of course we could just add another 55 Castle Secret Stars. Have to be a big castle though.


From what I've found it's possible to add "courses" to levels, as there is the possibility to use 8 course stars in a single level. You can assign a course number to a star, or make it level independent. So we could have levels with 8 courses, including the all-coin star.

By the way, anyone has the text table file for SM64? Not that I couldn't find it myself, but if anyone has done it already, I'll take it!

Spazzup™: I never said that, actually, the ROM will need to be expanded to at least 16 megs to use the editor, and I'll provide a small program that will do this for you (and repoint MIO0 files to the upper 8 megs). It will be impossible to make an .ips patch for the original ROM, but I don't think there's any way around it even though version 1.0 won't let you add things, as the re-compressed MIO0 can take more space than the original, and everything fits tightly in the original 8 megs ROM.

I have a weird schedule at work these days, but the editor is still progressing.

I'm currently rewriting the texture loading routine. It's still too slow for my tastes in some situations, it seems that the .char() function slows down when it accesses a very big variable, like the one containing the Mario MIO0 file (which is a shame...), and I may have to chop the loaded ROM segments in 32k or 64k blocks to avoid that.
HyperHacker

Star Mario
Finally being paid to code in VB! If only I still enjoyed that. <_<
Wii #7182 6487 4198 1828


 





Since: 11-18-05
From: Canada, w00t!
My computer's specs, if anyone gives a damn.
STOP TRUNCATING THIS >8^(

Last post: 6295 days
Last view: 6295 days
Posted on 02-25-06 08:13 PM Link
IPS can handle up to 16MB and file size changes.

And yeah, you could add stars to the levels, but adding a lot of new levels would be cooler.

Isn't the text just ASCII?
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Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - ROM Hacking - General Super Mario 64 hacking / TT64 Progress thread | Thread closed


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