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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - ROM Hacking - General Super Mario 64 hacking / TT64 Progress thread |
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| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 | Add to favorites | Next newer thread | Next older thread |
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Guy Perfect                  Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Well, in comparison... Loading 184 textures, 169 of which come from decoding MIO0 files, vertically mirroring 8 of them, loading a course, course names, course descriptions, course horizons, course musics, decoding course data, generating the 63 display lists of Mute City 3 with segments no longer than a quarter unit (for roughly 160 units)--times 8 for geometry splines, displaying 25 display lists (after generating 14 of them) and sticking in the venue floor all amounts to about a third of a second on my computer for F-Zero X. Most of that's textures. Switching between courses (new splines/display lists are generated each time) is nearly instantaneous.
I'd say that the #1 reason your editor is slow is because of file access. It's well worth your while to look into options to improve this performance. Load all of the needed file data into RAM once if necessary. At least that way you won't have to fetch from hard disk each time a map is loaded. |
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VL-Tone Paratroopa   Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6485 days Last view: 6485 days |
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| Oh great, I lost a long post again.... (This time the board ate it!)
I guess I'll have to summarize what I wanted to post... 1. Something about not knowing what to say, and being shamefull about the current speed. 2. Then I explain that yeah it's a disk access speed problem, and the fact that I read/decoded object multiple times is also a major factor. Director is not that slow in itself, it can performs tens of thousands of operations per second, if not hundreds, on any computer sold in the last 3 years. 3. The BinaryIO Xtra is the solution, it could load all ROM "banks" found in M64, in a second or two, and it would only need to do this once you open a ROM. The only problem is that it will display a small nag dialog each time the editor starts. 4. Explaining that it would be much better anyway, even with the BinaryIO nag dialog, and maybe hope that someone donates the license, after the editor is released. 5. Making sure everyone understands that the editor itself is freeware, and that I need only one license to remove the dialog for everyone. 6. Trying to address the fact that some will say that my editor is crap based on the current performance of the unreleased alpha on an ancient <400Mhz computer. 7. Something about saying that BGNG is a much better programmer than me, but that the difference between speed is also exagerated by other factors. 8. Trying to explain that in the end, I do this for fun, not fame or money. And that I'm confident that I will improve the speed vastly, and that's what's important for me now (compared to worrying about the doubts I created). 9. There was nothing worthy after that  |
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Guy Perfect Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| You might want to consider writing your drafts for posts in a text editor and saving often. (-:
I have no problems with a nag screen. I'll be setting up a donation fund myself for Heian-794's N64DD and software, so you won't be alone in that regard. Do what makes it work best, despite any cosmetic set-backs. Solutions will be provided over time. |
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dcahrakos   490  Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6511 days Last view: 6511 days |
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| as long as the nag screen isnt too intrusive then I wouldnt mind one, if its just a little popup window, and we just have to click ok then thats fine. | |||
Skreename Giant Red Paratroopa Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6301 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| Yeah... It's rather amazing how easy "nag screens" are to ignore, especially on something as big as an editor for Mario 64. Basically, it's a small price to pay for something so major. Besides... far and away, anyone using the tool seriously is going to spend a LOT more time in the editor than the time it takes to get through the nag screen, however long it may be.
As always, the screenshots look cool. |
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proffessor_gad Red Koopa  Since: 01-27-06 From: Mars Last post: 6325 days Last view: 6325 days |
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| Popup screen? I knew that there was something behind this! Oh well, I guess a popup "please donate to the maker of the engine" screen is better than having a time trail, or even worse- limited functions! | |||
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Guy Perfect Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| It's not a "please donate" box; it's a "please register the component that you used to make this program" box. VL-Tone would rather have no pop-up at all if that was a viable option. | |||
HyperHacker Star Mario Finally being paid to code in VB! If only I still enjoyed that. <_< Wii #7182 6487 4198 1828 Since: 11-18-05 From: Canada, w00t! My computer's specs, if anyone gives a damn. STOP TRUNCATING THIS >8^( Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Aren't there any free binary I/O components you could use?
Also what browser do you use? In lololol if a post doesn't go through, I just hit back and it's still there. If your browser doesn't do this, then I'd suggest writing your posts in Notepad, or at least copying them before you submit them. |
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Guy Perfect Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| VL-Tone is running Mac OS X, HyperHacker. I'm pretty sure Notepad is nowhere to be found. | |||
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proffessor_gad Red Koopa Since: 01-27-06 From: Mars Last post: 6325 days Last view: 6325 days |
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| Poor vl-tone. *Sniffle* | |||
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HyperHacker Star Mario Finally being paid to code in VB! If only I still enjoyed that. <_< Wii #7182 6487 4198 1828 Since: 11-18-05 From: Canada, w00t! My computer's specs, if anyone gives a damn. STOP TRUNCATING THIS >8^( Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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I'm sure OSX has some manner of Notepad-like text editor.  |
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VL-Tone Paratroopa Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6485 days Last view: 6485 days |
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| Well the first GUI based Notepad program released in a commercial manner was included in the original Macintosh in 1984. Actually it was a "Desk Accessory" which is kind of like the Widgets are in Konfabulator or OS X's Dashboard.
It was included in Mac OS 1-9, but was retired starting with OS X. But anyway there always been a bare-bones Text-editor included with the Mac OS, called TeachText, then SimpleText, then in OS X it was replaced by "TextEdit" which is also basic but also includes powerful features. It can open Word .doc files, do spell checking, render html and many other things. But enough Mac blabbering. The dialog for BinaryIO is small, includes text some text about registering it and an OK button. It is the only annoyance, and it doesn't prevent you from using the editor. Again I have to state that the editor is and will always be Freeware! I won't personally nag people to donate for the license, but obviously I wont refuse if someone donates the license. Here are the good news. After some preliminary tests, I found that I can load all 131 possible data segments in memory in 8 ticks! That's more than 8 megs of data, in 8/60th of a second, and on my dinosaur Mac. By comparison, with the old built-in byte by byte method, it would have taken 5 minutes
There will still be some little overhead since Director cannot store raw byte data in variables. In this case the BinaryIO copies the bytes as text in a variable list, so to read them I have to use the chartonum() function. BinaryIO can also read bytes in a more "numerical" fashion, as signed integers, long integers, float etc. but it can only read one of these at a time. The command I used in my experiment can load multiple bytes in one chunk, but only as text. But anyway its the best way to store and access bytes in a variable in Director, without using an I think I'll do a major rewrite of the editor, it's getting too patchy, as I added special cases to deal with objects formats I just found about. Yesterday I imported the main decoding routines in a new project. I'll work on making them read the data from the segments stored in variables using the Xtra, instead of using the old method. After that I'll have to decide if I recopy the new routines to my old project, or if I try to build a new one after it. It could end up being faster to do that instead of trying to work with the patchy version I have now. The current editor evolved from nothing, and grew as I discovered new thing in M64, and incidentally parts of this program was used to reverse-engineer the game. I should have separated the two before, but it's not a bad situation. Now that I have a clearer overview of the format in my head, I know I can write new version with simpler and optimized code, and I already experimented with different interfaces. |
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Raccoon Sam Boomerang Brother Custom Title  Since: 11-20-05 From: Correct Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6294 days |
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Originally posted by VL-Tone Actually, it's called "TeXtEdit". (Get the gag?). But, as you said. Enough Mac blabbering. About that stuff you said, it's awesome. No hurry. Haste makes waste  |
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Guy Perfect Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| What I've found to be effective is to do a first draft all the way through. Even if you keep learning new things along the way. Once you create a "tentative final," you can use everything of what you know and build a new one for scratch. I've ended up doing that twice already with F-Zero X.
Get what you feel would be sufficient editor put together, then take a step back and design something from scratch that utilizes everything you've learned. That way, you can devise a fully-functional software architecture for the project that operates smoothly with its various components and release something in good stature. |
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VL-Tone Paratroopa Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6485 days Last view: 6485 days |
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| I was hesitant to do a rewrite, but now that I think about it, it will be more easy and pleasant to start from scratch. I won't completely start over, as I will use some parts of the "old" code too, and reuse parts of the graphic interface.
The only important thing missing is that I don't know how articulated objects are built. As I said, I'm still puzzled about how to find the position of the body part joints on objects like Mario. I know how they are stored as hierarchies, but this data doesn't include position of these parts. For now, I'm stopping there, finding how this works is looking to be very complicated. Cellar Dweller was on this particular case the last time he posted, he may be the one that brings the answer to this problem. Still I will consider the possibility that he may not find the answer, so I will build my editor around this limitation. It's very propbable that objects with animated articulations won't display properly in version 1.0b. Static or rotating objects are fine though. There will be boxes around every objects (that you can hide if you want), so you'll be able to select and position invisible objects. Menus will have descriptions so you can chose these object types even if they don't display. I don't mind having this limitation in version 1.0b, it's more of a cosmetic thing than a functional one, even if visual cues are useful too. The tool will still be very powerful for what it will do, and will lead to interesting discoveries... By the way I've found the beta yellow fish found at the bottom of this beta Mario 64 picture: 
More about it soon... Edit: And soon enough, here is more about it: 
I don't know which behavior pointer it should use, so I used some static object behavior, though I could try to use one from another fish. (edited by VL-Tone on 02-14-06 04:25 AM) |
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Guy Perfect Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6295 days |
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I'd hate to burst your bubble, VL-Tone, but that fish is in the game. Check the beginning of Dire, Dire Docks.
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proffessor_gad Red Koopa Since: 01-27-06 From: Mars Last post: 6325 days Last view: 6325 days |
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| Is there any way we can get the beta version of mario 64? | |||
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Guy Perfect Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| For any given game, there's ubdoubtedly an unmeasurably high number of beta prototypes that were used for testing. It's highly unlikely that Super Mario 64 had only one of these in its lifetime. To say "the beta version" is somewhat indescriptive.
But I'm not aware of any such prototypes making it out of testing land. Anyone else have any insights to this subject? |
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VL-Tone Paratroopa Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6485 days Last view: 6485 days |
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Originally posted by BGNG Oh crap, it was late, I was tired and the only place I remembered seeing this fish is in that beta picture... And the description of the picture said that this fish wasn't in the game. It's the description's fault  Also, I found that it was "loaded" in Wet-Dry World using a 0x22 command, but is not used. I didn't search much more though, as I would have found it in Dire Dire Dock... Currently, DDD doesn't load anymore in my editor, since I recently implemented the decoding of special objects positions in the solidity data. There must be a command that I didn't define a length for, it's only a matter of finding its length (trivial).
Anyway, next time I find what I think is a beta object, I'll make sure it's not used in the game! As far as I know, no Mario 64 beta were ever leaked. Here is a very small video from the beta version, dating from 1996 that only few of you may have seen: ftp://www.gamezero.com/video_files/mario64.avi I had found this video a while ago trough archive.org, but I traced back the website that was credited at the end of the video (gamezero), and it still exists!. The site has archived content dating from 1996 until now! The site owner seems to have some fixation with cartoons of muscular women, anyway I just wanted to warn you if you visit the rest of its site |
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Raccoon Sam Boomerang Brother Custom Title Since: 11-20-05 From: Correct Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| That video needs some crazy Quicktime component. |
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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - ROM Hacking - General Super Mario 64 hacking / TT64 Progress thread |
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