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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - General Chat - Zero division?! |
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Smallhacker Super Koopa I AM A Group Of Officially Frustrated Younglings, G.O.O.F.Y. MEMBER |
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I'd like some comments about this. I want to know if it makes sense or not. |
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Lilmario Cheep-cheep What role would that be?                  Since: 11-17-05 From: Ireland :D Last post: 6337 days Last view: 6337 days |
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Originally posted by That maths thing This is where you lost me....my brain died :'( |
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mvent2 Paragoomba    Since: 11-17-05 From: Brizzy, Australia Last post: 6616 days Last view: 6616 days |
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| What he means, is thast it is common knowledge that any number divided by 0 cannot be solved (type it in a calculator!)
1/0=Z What he means is that Z is a number, which equals 1/0. So, you need to divide 1 by 0 to get Z, you can multiply Z by 0 to get 1. 1/0=Z Therefore 0*Z=1 However, the only number Z can be is infinity, since any real number divided by 0 = 0. So any number divided by 0 actually equals infinity, but a calculator can't properly display infinity, so they just call it "undefined" or "math error" as some calculators put it. 
What he is saying is that Z has to be so big, that it breaks the rule of n*0=0. The only number it can be is infinity. |
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Danielle     6730 Administratorrrr HELLO THERE   Since: 11-17-05 From: California Rate me ^_^ Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6295 days |
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And why do they have to know that? Sounds pointless to me.  |
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Valcion Knuckle Joe too much high power man  Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| DIVIDE BY ZERO
O SHI- |
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jeff Double metal axe  Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| DIVIDING BY ZERO
IT BUILDS CHARACTER |
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Smallhacker Super Koopa I AM A Group Of Officially Frustrated Younglings, G.O.O.F.Y. MEMBER |
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Originally posted by mvent2 Correct, except that I'm saying that infinity isn't big enough. (0*Infinity=0) Z must be bigger than infinity. |
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Danielle 6730 Administratorrrr HELLO THERE Since: 11-17-05 From: California Rate me ^_^ Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Well I'm glad I'll be through with math before this gets implimented into the teachings. | |||
Hiryuu Sword Maiden Retired Admin  Since: 11-17-05 From: Nerima District - Tokyo, Japan Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6296 days |
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| And multiplying Z by negative infinity would produce...-1? | |||
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mvent2 Paragoomba Since: 11-17-05 From: Brizzy, Australia Last post: 6616 days Last view: 6616 days |
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If you divide any number by zero, the answer is infinity (but for these purposes, zero). If you divide a number by itself, you get 1. An excellent summary, if I do say so myself. 
Wouldn't the answer to 0/0 be a "complex number" instead of a "real number"? |
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HyperHacker Star Mario Finally being paid to code in VB! If only I still enjoyed that. <_< Wii #7182 6487 4198 1828 Since: 11-18-05 From: Canada, w00t! My computer's specs, if anyone gives a damn. STOP TRUNCATING THIS >8^( Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6296 days |
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| If I may ramble...
1/0 = 0. Consider: The equation x/y = z means if you divide x into y equal groups, they will each contain z pieces. To divide something into 0 groups would mean that it ceases to exist. Because there are no groups, they contain no pieces. Similarly, 0/0 = 0, because you divide nothing into groups of nothing and thus end up with nothing. Half of nothing is still nothing. 
Still not confused? Throw i into some equations. 
[edit] Also, something fun I noticed when mucking around with OpenGL: If you give any vertex any coordinate which is the result of x/0 (where x is anything), the vertex will be placed in an undefined position. I haven't examined it much but it looks like it stretches toward some point infinitely far away. It's kinda neat. You can follow it toward this point forever and it will never shrink as it would if it were actually coming to a point. (Imagine you had a giant star; as you move toward one of its points, the piece which stretches out to this point gets thinner and thinner until it reaches that point - this piece won't.) (edited by HyperHacker on 12-15-05 06:11 PM) |
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neotransotaku Sledge Brother Liberated from school...until MLK day  Since: 11-17-05 From: In Hearst Field Annex... Last post: 6298 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| there are ideas floating around that says there are things bigger than infinity... | |||
Clockworkz Birdon Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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DahrkDaiz Nipper Plant U wan hax Mario?!  Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6296 days |
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| 1/0=Z
so 1 = Z * 0 so 1/Z = 0 The larger Z gets, the smaller 1/Z becomes As Z approaches infinity, 1/Z gets closer to 0 thus Z = infinity  (edited by DahrkDaiz on 12-15-05 06:32 PM) |
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Nayno Newcomer Since: 12-15-05 Last post: 6725 days Last view: 6725 days |
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| There are multiple sizes of infinity; That means that one infinity can be larger than another, possibly infinitely larger. We know this because between any two points on the number line, say, 0 and 1, there is an infinite number of rational numbers. However, there is also an infinite number of irrational numbers (like pi or the square root of two)! There are, in fact, more irrational numbers than rational numbers, but there is an infinite number of each!
Why are there more irrational numbers? When you find the area underneath of a function using an integral, all of the area corresponds to irrational x-values and none of it corresponds to rational x-values. Think about it. The area underneath a function at some x-value is really just a line segment... it has zero area. Somehow, by adding together an infinite number of zero-area line segments, we find a definite area that is greater than zero! Where does all of the area come from? Irrational x-values. When you think about it, this means that Z may not be rational infinity, but irrational infinity. The area underneath the function = irrational infinity * the area of a line segment, or A = Z * 0. So while 0 * infinity does equal zero, it also can equal some constant depending on the properties of the infinity and the zero involved. Of course, I am not a math professor, but I do know a little bit about stuff like this. |
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Squash Monster Bouncy Since: 11-18-05 From: Right next to myself. Last post: 6303 days Last view: 6297 days |
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| The only way you can divide by 0 is by taking a limit.
1 / 0 is not infinity, because 1 / infinity is not 0. DahrkDaiz is correct that the value of 1 / Z approaches 0 as Z approaches infinity, but that's not the same as 1 / infinity equalling 0. Taking the value of an exp The limit as Z approaches 0 of 1 / Z is infinity*. The limit as Z approaches infinity of 1 / Z is 0. 1 / 0 does not equal infinity. 1 / infinity is not 0. *Well, it could be negative infinity. Depends on which direction you approach from (edited by Squash Monster on 12-15-05 07:25 PM) |
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Young Guru Snifit  Since: 11-18-05 From: Notre Dame, IN Last post: 6302 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Um, just pointing out some things, multiplication, division, addition, subtraction, etc. is not possible with infinity. Infinity is just a concept that is used to simplify solutions. And dividing X/0 does not equal infinty, it's an undefined concept. But if you take the equation X/Y and let Y approach 0 it results in infinity, but this is just a way of saying, the number becomes irrationally large.
Also, with integrals, the base of the rectangles that are being summed to find the area of the function never actually reach 0, just extremely small values. Don't mean to be an oldfashioned math person but I gotta say that division by 0 is undefined in all it's forms and 0 multiplied by anything is 0, no matter how large that thing is. I guess I got beat to part of my explanation (edited by Young Guru on 12-15-05 07:30 PM) |
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NSNick Gohma IF ALL ELSE FAILS USE BOOZE  Since: 11-17-05 From: Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6297 days |
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lim 1 = Infinity |
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Squash Monster Bouncy Since: 11-18-05 From: Right next to myself. Last post: 6303 days Last view: 6297 days |
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Originally posted by NSNicklim 1 = Infinity Nope, not quite. I had that answer at the end of my post and had to edit it because I made the same mistake. The limit of that is infinity if you approach from the positive, or negative infinity if you approach from the negative. So there's no actual value for the normal limit. Which really does a lot to explain why things end up breaking when people try to assign values to 1 / 0. |
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Young Guru Snifit Since: 11-18-05 From: Notre Dame, IN Last post: 6302 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| math is fun. I especially like when you get into vector spaces, because there is no division, only multiplication and addition/subtraction. it makes life simple and kinda explains this. So, you can multiply vector A by the 0 and get a zero vector. Now, if you want to divide A by the zero vector you'd have to multiply A by the inverse of the zero vector. But the zero vector has no inverse so you cannot divide by 0, at least in vector spaces.
That might be kinda off. i've just spent the last 5 hours going through 4 tests and one entire book of linear algebra and a third of a book of O.D.E.s (edited by Young Guru on 12-16-05 01:16 AM) |
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