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Xkeeper
Took the board down in a blaze of glory, only to reveal how truly moronical ||bass is.


 





Since: 11-17-05
From: Henderson, Nevada

Last post: 6286 days
Last view: 6286 days
Skype
Posted on 02-08-07 11:32 PM Link | Quote
I don't know, to download any programs it was either:

- Hope that they distributed an actual binary (HA HA HAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHA)

- Compile it myself (AHAHAHAHAHAHAH no.)

- Figure out which sequence of "apt" or "pck" or "pkg" or whatever the fuck it was commands will actually download and install (and then make it actually work, probably by downloading more required packages etc etc ad nasueam)

I agree with Hyperhacker on all points.
FreeDOS +

Giant Red Koopa
Legion: freedos = fritos








Since: 11-17-05
From: Seattle

Last post: 6285 days
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Posted on 02-08-07 11:35 PM Link | Quote
System->Administration->Synaptic Package Manager was too hard for you (that's at least for Ubuntu, other distros usually have another, with the name "PACKAGE MANAGER" to help)? hahahahaha
Xkeeper
Took the board down in a blaze of glory, only to reveal how truly moronical ||bass is.


 





Since: 11-17-05
From: Henderson, Nevada

Last post: 6286 days
Last view: 6286 days
Skype
Posted on 02-08-07 11:36 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by FreeDOS +
System->Administration->Synaptic Package Manager was too hard for you (that's at least for Ubuntu, other distros usually have another, with the name "PACKAGE MANAGER" to help)? hahahahaha

Actually, considering that 90% of the time my screen was completely fucking illegible, yes, it was.

(Don't give me that "bad videocard' bullshit, because 2000 and even 98 ran fine on it, and still do)


(P.S.: That menu didn't exist)

(edited by Xkeeper on 02-08-07 05:36 PM)
Ailure

Mr. Shine
I just want peace...








Since: 11-17-05
From: Sweden

Last post: 6286 days
Last view: 6285 days
Posted on 02-08-07 11:36 PM Link | Quote
Hyperhacker, your point number 3 is the weakest. If you used Unix before Windows, you probably would complain that DOS is limited and awkard.

Also, if you have some oddball hardware (like my laptop) it can be good idea to test severeal distros. It was ironic, but that 3D demo desktop thing worked much better on my laptop than most other distros did. XD
Xkeeper
Took the board down in a blaze of glory, only to reveal how truly moronical ||bass is.


 





Since: 11-17-05
From: Henderson, Nevada

Last post: 6286 days
Last view: 6286 days
Skype
Posted on 02-08-07 11:42 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Ailure
Hyperhacker, your point number 3 is the weakest. If you used Unix before Windows, you probably would complain that DOS is limited and awkard.

Also, if you have some oddball hardware (like my laptop) it can be good idea to test severeal distros. It was ironic, but that 3D demo desktop thing worked much better on my laptop than most other distros did. XD
DOS is automatically easier to use:

DOS/Windows:
Edit file -> "edit fliename.ext"
Move file -> "move file1 destination"
Copy file -> "copy file1 destination"
Copy disk -> "discopy a: b:"
Rename -> "rename a b"
Delete -> "delete filename" (or "del", for short)
MakeDirectory -> "mkdir name"
Help file -> "help [command]"
Help/Syntax -> no arguments or "/?" or "-?"
Loading program -> "program name"

Linux:
Edit file -> "vi [filename]" (or whatever stupid editor is installed)
Move file -> "mv file1 file2"
Copy file -> "cp file1 file2"
Copy disk -> "dd ?? ??" (?)
Rename -> "rn file file2" (EXTREMELY EASY TO CONFUSE WITH DELETE)
Delete -> "rm file1" (EXTREMELY EASY TO CONFUSE WITH RENAME)
MakeDirectory -> "md dirname" (?)
Help file -> "man [command]"
Help/Syntax -> various between every program in existance ("--help", "--syntax", "-h", "-?", etc)
Loading program -> "./program"


In short: stupid
FreeDOS +

Giant Red Koopa
Legion: freedos = fritos








Since: 11-17-05
From: Seattle

Last post: 6285 days
Last view: 6285 days
Posted on 02-08-07 11:46 PM Link | Quote
The command to rename files is mv. Learn something. It was the same with MS-DOS until version 6 came around (aka, use move to rename files). There's various text editors for you to use. Like nano. And then on the point of dd, it's not just meant for copying disks.

In short: DOS is the dumb one.
HyperHacker

Star Mario
Finally being paid to code in VB! If only I still enjoyed that. <_<
Wii #7182 6487 4198 1828


 





Since: 11-18-05
From: Canada, w00t!
My computer's specs, if anyone gives a damn.
STOP TRUNCATING THIS >8^(

Last post: 6286 days
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Posted on 02-09-07 01:23 AM Link | Quote
DOS is dumb, yes. Nobody uses DOS anymore though. Windows' command line is surprisingly powerful while still having the same syntax as DOS.
Originally posted by FreeDOS +
1. Sounds like you listened to too much of Microsoft's FUD. This is so fucking inaccurate, you might as well claim that Windows sucks because you can't run it on your VCR.

I didn't listen to Microsoft at all. This comes from my experience using Linux. Some distros might do it for you but you still have to choose a distro, compile a kernel specific to your hardware, and choose a window manager. How can you ensure any given program will work with any given combination of distro, WM, and the 4000 options you chose from to compile this specific kernel? How do I know if my CPU supports the BINZACSAPOATIT instruction?
(Also, show me Linux running on a Magnavox MCV604?)

2. You thought wrong; the more popular hardware is obviously more supported. Should probably think more when you buy things... it's really not that hard to get compatible hardware with everything.

My train of thought when buying this hardware: "Can I afford this? Yes. Can I afford anything better? No. Can I save up for something better? No, because it'll be ages before I can get to a computer store again."
I'm constantly hearing comments like "a 486 is still a useable machine if you run Linux" and "Linux supports my [insert very old device] great", and obviously since Windows is so damn bloated Linux should have lower requirements. And probably the most important point here: Windows supports it fine, Linux chokes on it.

3. Unix is older; GNU is modelled after Unix. It makes sense that it doesn't copy DOS. Besides you can make aliases. On top of this, just install Ubuntu, you still have a huge misconception you have to do everything with the CLI.

I've had to do everything with the CLI so far, because Ubuntu wouldn't recognize a serial mouse and still won't recognize the old keyboard. At best I've managed to log in and find the menus not working. There's also no reason they can't make these aliases automatically for people who are used to DOS. Maybe more people would use Unix-based OSes if they did this.
Being based off an old OS is the very reason Windows sucks, IMO. OK, so back in the days before DOS, it made sense for programs not to ask before doing something dangerous nor provide help as to what they do, because that extra text might be too much to fit in RAM and you probably had nothing important stored on the computer and if you had one you were probably capable of writing your own OS anyway. That's not the case now. Why is Linux still using such old standards that no longer make sense?
FreeDOS +

Giant Red Koopa
Legion: freedos = fritos








Since: 11-17-05
From: Seattle

Last post: 6285 days
Last view: 6285 days
Posted on 02-09-07 01:42 AM Link | Quote
Choosing a distro, yes that pretty much a blantently obvious thing you still have to do. Compiling a kernel, no you almost never need to do this. As for choosing your window manager, you'd rarely have to make this step at first unless you're using Slackware or something. On top of this, the whole reason a package manager exists is so that you won't have *any* troubles installing software. One of my biggest gripes is that lack of a package manager; you complain about Linux, but I find the situation much worse on Windows.

And for people saying 486s are still usable, they're either using 486s for their servers (in which they'd be completely correct), or specialized distros that have old or very minimal programs.

I find it ironic that you complain about Linux following the Unix design. Quite simply, it's because it works. It might not be perfect (what is?), but it's magnitudes better than DOS/WinNT.
HyperHacker

Star Mario
Finally being paid to code in VB! If only I still enjoyed that. <_<
Wii #7182 6487 4198 1828


 





Since: 11-18-05
From: Canada, w00t!
My computer's specs, if anyone gives a damn.
STOP TRUNCATING THIS >8^(

Last post: 6286 days
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Posted on 02-09-07 01:50 AM Link | Quote
So, how do ambiguous commands, lack of confirmation, and lack of documentation make Unix-based programs work better than Windows?
Xkeeper
Took the board down in a blaze of glory, only to reveal how truly moronical ||bass is.


 





Since: 11-17-05
From: Henderson, Nevada

Last post: 6286 days
Last view: 6286 days
Skype
Posted on 02-09-07 01:55 AM Link | Quote
Because it's OPEN SOURCE

[audience oooooooooooooh]
FreeDOS +

Giant Red Koopa
Legion: freedos = fritos








Since: 11-17-05
From: Seattle

Last post: 6285 days
Last view: 6285 days
Posted on 02-09-07 02:18 AM Link | Quote
What's ambigous? What about having -i enabled by default? Have you ever heard of man?

Your points are moot.
HyperHacker

Star Mario
Finally being paid to code in VB! If only I still enjoyed that. <_<
Wii #7182 6487 4198 1828


 





Since: 11-18-05
From: Canada, w00t!
My computer's specs, if anyone gives a damn.
STOP TRUNCATING THIS >8^(

Last post: 6286 days
Last view: 6286 days
Posted on 02-09-07 04:54 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Xkeeper
Edit file -> "vi [filename]" (or whatever stupid editor is installed)
Move file -> "mv file1 file2"
Copy file -> "cp file1 file2"
Copy disk -> "dd ?? ??" (?)
Rename -> "rn file file2" (EXTREMELY EASY TO CONFUSE WITH DELETE)
Delete -> "rm file1" (EXTREMELY EASY TO CONFUSE WITH RENAME)
MakeDirectory -> "md dirname" (?)
Help file -> "man [command]"
Help/Syntax -> various between every program in existance ("--help", "--syntax", "-h", "-?", etc)
Loading program -> "./program"


What does "having -i enabled by default" even mean? Your very posts are demonstrating one of the biggest problems with Linux.
FreeDOS +

Giant Red Koopa
Legion: freedos = fritos








Since: 11-17-05
From: Seattle

Last post: 6285 days
Last view: 6285 days
Posted on 02-09-07 05:00 AM Link | Quote 
     -i      Write a prompt to the standard error output before copying a file
             that would overwrite an existing file.  If the response from the
             standard input begins with the character `y', the file copy is
             attempted.

On top of the fact, that Xkeeper's list has some errors in it in the first place. Hell, I even linked to an on-line manpage viewer; couldn't you just look up one of the commands that could be potentially hazardous (eg, rm or cp)?

I fail to see how I'm demonstrating any problems, but rather you seem to be demonstrating nothing but ignorance.
HyperHacker

Star Mario
Finally being paid to code in VB! If only I still enjoyed that. <_<
Wii #7182 6487 4198 1828


 





Since: 11-18-05
From: Canada, w00t!
My computer's specs, if anyone gives a damn.
STOP TRUNCATING THIS >8^(

Last post: 6286 days
Last view: 6286 days
Posted on 02-09-07 05:29 AM Link | Quote
And where did that information come from? This is exactly what I mean by your posts demonstrating the problems. You seem to have just expected me to know about -i, what it does, and how to enable it by default. Where did you expect me to get this information?
FreeDOS +

Giant Red Koopa
Legion: freedos = fritos








Since: 11-17-05
From: Seattle

Last post: 6285 days
Last view: 6285 days
Posted on 02-09-07 05:37 AM Link | Quote
Have you gotten the hint? It came from a manual, of course. And since you seem to have some sort of mental block from performing the obvious, scroll down to "Aliases" on the sh(1) manual. Ever wonder what RTFM means?

So much for "lack of documentation".

(edited by FreeDOS + on 02-08-07 11:37 PM)
Sweet Kassy Molassy
Out of ice cream and PB. Would KILL for a milkshake right now.








Since: 06-17-06
From: LoozeeAnna

Last post: 6286 days
Last view: 6285 days
Posted on 02-09-07 05:50 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by FreeDOS +

3. Unix is older; GNU is modelled after Unix. It makes sense that it doesn't copy DOS. Besides you can make aliases. On top of this, just install Ubuntu, you still have a huge misconception you have to do everything with the CLI.


I'm having to do things with the command line and having trouble.
And ubuntu recognizes my wireless card but I still can't get networking to work. I'm having to learn how all the command line crap works...

I realize it's not a copy of DOS... but hell... if someone's gonna make a beginner distro why not at least make some of the command names the same as the more universally familliar DOS command names? they could leave the unix commands in there too, so both rm and del would work to get rid of files. Makes sense to me.


Linux may be a good alternative to Vista for the experienced, but will ALWAYS have too difficult a learning curve for the average computer user, no matter how well they make GUI's for everything.


Also, I can't mount my fat32/ntfs drives under ubuntu because the menu that the documentation says to use ISN'T EVEN THERE.

Open source is great for programs, but I predict it'll never work for an everyman's OS because there's not enough standardization.

*EDIT* Also, DOS 6.22 = NOT STUPID. DOS rocked.
Linux = confusing. And most linux users I know tend to be elitist and snobby about it.

(edited by Sweet Kassy Molassy on 02-08-07 11:53 PM)
(edited by Sweet Kassy Molassy on 02-08-07 11:57 PM)
HyperHacker

Star Mario
Finally being paid to code in VB! If only I still enjoyed that. <_<
Wii #7182 6487 4198 1828


 





Since: 11-18-05
From: Canada, w00t!
My computer's specs, if anyone gives a damn.
STOP TRUNCATING THIS >8^(

Last post: 6286 days
Last view: 6286 days
Posted on 02-09-07 08:47 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by FreeDOS +
Have you gotten the hint? It came from a manual, of course. And since you seem to have some sort of mental block from performing the obvious, scroll down to "Aliases" on the sh(1) manual. Ever wonder what RTFM means?

So much for "lack of documentation".

And how would I have known to look at the manual page for sh specifically? You didn't mention what command this magic -i flag applies to.

(edited by HyperHacker on 02-09-07 02:51 AM)
Black Lord +

Flurry


 





Since: 11-17-05
From: Where indians still roam...

Last post: 6287 days
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Posted on 02-09-07 02:30 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Sweet Kassy Molassy


Open source is great for programs, but I predict it'll never work for an everyman's OS because there's not enough standardization.

*EDIT* Also, DOS 6.22 = NOT STUPID. DOS rocked.
Linux = confusing. And most linux users I know tend to be elitist and snobby about it.


I beg to differ... number 1, not even windows is very standardized... and they don't follow other standards so that makes it even worse.

And as for being an everyman's OS... I wholeheartedly disagree...

My Grandparents just got a computer a few months ago, at first we installed windows... after numerous problems, and difficulties learning how to do stuff... my cousin and I told them we're going to try something new, and installed Ubuntu on their pc, and thus far, the questions have gone down... I'm trying to talk other members of my family into the same thing, and after trying the LiveCD for a while 1/2 of them decided they wanted to try to switch over while the other half decided (after reviewing their options for a while) that they'll stick with Windows for a while.

And I'll say this, my family is no where near being computer people, my cousin and I are probably the only ones that have any interests in computing.

And if Linux sucked so much... then why does Google run it.

Googles Servers Specs
neotransotaku

Sledge Brother
Liberated from school...until MLK day








Since: 11-17-05
From: In Hearst Field Annex...

Last post: 6288 days
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Posted on 02-10-07 12:22 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by HyperHacker
Originally posted by FreeDOS +
Have you gotten the hint? It came from a manual, of course. And since you seem to have some sort of mental block from performing the obvious, scroll down to "Aliases" on the sh(1) manual. Ever wonder what RTFM means?

So much for "lack of documentation".

And how would I have known to look at the manual page for sh specifically? You didn't mention what command this magic -i flag applies to.


rm, cp, mv commands...

man <command> usually provides the help you need. However, navigating it and is a pain in the arse, or well, I haven't learned how to use less properly.
FreeDOS +

Giant Red Koopa
Legion: freedos = fritos








Since: 11-17-05
From: Seattle

Last post: 6285 days
Last view: 6285 days
Posted on 02-10-07 01:29 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by HyperHacker
And how would I have known to look at the manual page for sh specifically? You didn't mention what command this magic -i flag applies to.

You would typically know about sh after reading a book, or asking for help on setting -i by default on certain commands. Nobody expects you to magically know what things do, no more than they expect you'd magically know wtf all those archane, undocumented Microsoft config GUIs are that aren't even accessible without digging through system32.
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