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Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - Lost Threads II - "lol, standards" web design blows
  
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HyperHacker
Posts: 4446/5072
Originally posted by Kailieann
To be fair, how many blind people do you know?

Exactly.
Kailieann
Posts: 658/808		 To be fair, how many blind people do you know?

Several of them use the internet, Alice.
HyperHacker
Posts: 4442/5072		 The real question is what blind person uses the Interweb? I don't know any. Do you know any?
D 2007
Posts: 307/497
Originally posted by Metal Man88
I came up with a new rhyme for this: "Standards are for standorks!"

Just to show how immature I really am, I actually laughed out loud when I read that.

Metal Man88
Posts: 545/701		 I came up with a new rhyme for this: "Standards are for standorks!"

Also, don't modern text-readers interpret tables correctly? It's pretty easy to make it interpret the TDs and stuff and go "Table Column List: Bla bla bla" and such. And then go down by column, or something. ...But how are blind people supposed to understand tables anyway?
HyperHacker
Posts: 4408/5072		 Well yes, if you're having it read the source code.
Cirvania
Posts: 1078/1181
Originally posted by Kailieann
Originally posted by FreeDOS +
Since when were tables non-standard? I didn't get the memo.

Since deafblind people started using the internet and their text-to-speech programs got mauled by tables.


"Less than" "Table" "Greater Than" "Less than" "Tee Arr" "Greater Than" "Less than" "Tee Dee" "Greater Than" "This is what a table sounds like" "Less than" "Slash Tee Dee" "Greater Than" "Less than" "Slash Tee Arr" "Greater Than" " Less than" "Slash Table" "Greater Than"

Repeat ad nauseam.
D 2007
Posts: 293/497		 there's a difference between using tables "the standards way" (i.e., not using them) and u sing them the "I don't feel like debugging these DIVs for five hours trying to find out what dumb quirk in (browser) makes it render this way" way.
FreeDOS +
Posts: 1123/1312
Originally posted by Kailieann
Originally posted by FreeDOS +
Since when were tables non-standard? I didn't get the memo.

Since deafblind people started using the internet and their text-to-speech programs got mauled by tables.

That's called accessibility, not standards.
D 2007
Posts: 292/497
Originally posted by HyperHacker
Originally posted by Metal Man88
Some dumb people are saying tables are clumsy and should be replaced with CSS.

That'd be great, but the CSS doesn't work so that's a load of BS.

May tables live forever!

I've been saying this the whole time, but only now people have started agreeing with me. CSS is a load plain and simple. Good idea, terrible execution.

BTW:

Show me this border style in CSS. The "ridge" style is the closest match, and it's fugly.

I believe you need two DIVs for that, one with outset border and a bit of padding (for outer) and inset border (for inside)

but then again divs in divs are unpredictable
HyperHacker
Posts: 4394/5072
Originally posted by Metal Man88
Some dumb people are saying tables are clumsy and should be replaced with CSS.

That'd be great, but the CSS doesn't work so that's a load of BS.

May tables live forever!

I've been saying this the whole time, but only now people have started agreeing with me. CSS is a load plain and simple. Good idea, terrible execution.

BTW:

Show me this border style in CSS. The "ridge" style is the closest match, and it's fugly.
Kailieann
Posts: 650/808
Originally posted by FreeDOS +
Since when were tables non-standard? I didn't get the memo.

Since deafblind people started using the internet and their text-to-speech programs got mauled by tables.
Metal Man88
Posts: 539/701		 Some dumb people are saying tables are clumsy and should be replaced with CSS.

That'd be great, but the CSS doesn't work so that's a load of BS.

May tables live forever!
FreeDOS +
Posts: 1122/1312
Originally posted by Xkeeper
*230048> @laptuna> namely, standards are bullshit, long live tables

Since when were tables non-standard? I didn't get the memo.
Ninetales
Posts: 775/894
Originally posted by Xkeeper
standards are bullshit, long live tables

This is a perfect example of this.

IE: <table style="width:100%"> is defined to mean 100% of the window size.
Opera: <table style="margin:20px"> sets the page margins to 20px around and not the object margins to 20px.
FF: Works beautifully.

Why won't it just work already?!
Kailieann
Posts: 632/808
Originally posted by Xkeeper
Long Live Tables


quoted and emphasized for emphasis.
Xkeeper
Posts: 4977/5653		 *225825> +FreeDOS-plus> width: 100%;
*225829> +FreeDOS-plus> any thoughts?
*225841> +FreeDOS-plus> my conclusion, IE and Opera are wrong
*225850> @laptuna> since when did width:100%
*225856> @laptuna> and margin: 0 170px 0 0;
*225903> @laptuna> equate to so big it's off the fucking screen
*225922> @laptuna> last I checked, 100% - 170 != 105%
*230015> +FreeDOS-plus> who knows, KHTML did it too, and they generally have the best adherance to standards
*230042> @laptuna> so it confirms what I already knew
*230048> @laptuna> namely, standards are bullshit, long live tables

sigh
Xkeeper
Posts: 4975/5653		 gee, I've only pasted it into IRC 20 times
FreeDOS +
Posts: 1109/1312		 I dare you to post the code of it. A picture is useless without any proof
Xkeeper
Posts: 4974/5653
This is Opera and IE7 (well, kind of. IE7 has a larger space between them, but for the most part, it's pretty perfect.)


This is Firefox.

Of course, this is with MAGICAL STANDARDS and VALID HTML/CSS.

But, you know, standards don't really mean anything.

*Xkeeper goes back to using tables
Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - Lost Threads II - "lol, standards" web design blows


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