Lakithunder
Posts: 664/1284 |
Originally posted by ibz10g
Originally posted by Kasumi-Astra
Originally posted by ibz10g
Come on. Think about it logically. You meet someone who looks like a girl. You take her home. She tells you "just a minute", then goes into the bathroom. You're feeling rather 'happy', so you go in to the bathroom only to find her standing up using the toilet.
I don't know about you, but that's definately not my cup of tea.
Transgendered people aren't out to stalk you, fuck's sake. Nobody has any responsibility to diverge any details about their past or medical history. I'm protected by law in Great Britain from anybody who tries to forcefully expose the fact that I am undergoing treatment for Gender Identity Disorder, and that I am "biologically" male.
I've used the women's toilets and the world hasn't come to an end. It's a smelly shithole just like the Gents. Yet, I would get thrown out of the Gents just as quick as the Women's for the way I look- so what should I do?
How would you enforce a law that prohibited me from entering Women's loos if I already can and do without a problem? Hell, I've been swimming without raising an eyebrow!
The legislation is designed to benefit transsexual people, like myself, who are undergoing psychiatric and hormonal treatment. To qualify, you must prove that you have lived in the role of the opposite gender for two years- you can't do it on a whim, you can't claim you have the right until it is granted to you. You must also have the recommendation of a certified psycihiatric professionnal to qualify first. I'd say that's one tough standard to meet, and will sort out all the idiots, all the confused, and all the perverts.
The quoted case of the "lesbian" is also a typically silly annecdote. This is one case that has been reported subjectively, in the opinion of the indvidual being interviewed. There are retards of all types and colours in this world- no less transgendered ones. Sadly, because of our status, these cases surface far more in the popular media, regardless of whether they are relevant to the legislation being covered.
The legislation in Britain came about because my country was breaking European Law- it was infringing on people's Human Rights by requiring people to reveal personal details about their past to people. In our case, it is our former sex, our former names, and the attachment of a stigma that is innappropriate. Law has been changed throughout Europe to care for our wellbeing- something everyone has a right to in a democracy.
Transgendered people specifically need the ability to be considered female or male under such circumstances because their health and wellbeing are at stake, they need to be able to persue permenancy of their gender role and some do not wish to persue surgery at all due to insufficient funding or they cannot accept the risk of complication involved.
This legislation actually helps transgendered people pursue the permenancy of their gender role and prohibits people from taking advantage of such a status to deceive people. Transsexual people overwhelmingly are honest with the gender they identify with. Our aim is to be the person we are expected to be by judgement of our appearance. People see that I have breasts, long hair, fair complexion and are met with the corresponding manner when they socialise with me.
My girlfriend is fully aware of my past (having known me since I had even begun treatment) and is fully supportive of my social and sexual transition. My friends are all open an honest and have accepted me to a respectable level.
My work collegues are very professional and supportive. Policy that was created specifically for me (I was the first transsexual person my company has employed) was put into good use when another transsexual woman was employed shortly after I returned to university.
Legislation similar to this is commonplace throughout Europe, in a high number of member countries. Society isn't collapsing here, neither will it in New York. New York is an incredibly metrolpolitan city, it will embrace diversity. This law is to protect a minority from discrimination, this is the process of democracy and law. If you speak out against the purpose of this law without truely understanding the benefit, you are unjustly attacking a minority of people. Apartheid was abolished to let black people to have the same rights and use the same public conveniences as white people- transsexual people should be given the right to be treated as the sex they have proven they are.
Legally, I'm a woman. Socially I'm a woman. Sexually I am a woman. Genitally I am not yet a woman. Genetically, I will always be a man.
People don't see my genitals or my genetics, arguably I am a woman in society. I have a girlfriend so I am not looking for a partner. I have legally changed my name, I am not able to benefit from my change of gender role fraudulantly. There is not one reason why what is in my pants or what I write on forms is of any consequence to anyone else.
Legally, I'm a woman. But in reality, I am as well.
It makes me feel bad I said that. I'm a dumb 15 year old who doesn't quite accept things the way he should yet. . Sorry if what I say anywhere offends anyone.
Not me!  |
ibz10g
Posts: 388/588 |
Originally posted by Kasumi-Astra
Originally posted by ibz10g
Come on. Think about it logically. You meet someone who looks like a girl. You take her home. She tells you "just a minute", then goes into the bathroom. You're feeling rather 'happy', so you go in to the bathroom only to find her standing up using the toilet.
I don't know about you, but that's definately not my cup of tea.
Transgendered people aren't out to stalk you, fuck's sake. Nobody has any responsibility to diverge any details about their past or medical history. I'm protected by law in Great Britain from anybody who tries to forcefully expose the fact that I am undergoing treatment for Gender Identity Disorder, and that I am "biologically" male.
I've used the women's toilets and the world hasn't come to an end. It's a smelly shithole just like the Gents. Yet, I would get thrown out of the Gents just as quick as the Women's for the way I look- so what should I do?
How would you enforce a law that prohibited me from entering Women's loos if I already can and do without a problem? Hell, I've been swimming without raising an eyebrow!
The legislation is designed to benefit transsexual people, like myself, who are undergoing psychiatric and hormonal treatment. To qualify, you must prove that you have lived in the role of the opposite gender for two years- you can't do it on a whim, you can't claim you have the right until it is granted to you. You must also have the recommendation of a certified psycihiatric professionnal to qualify first. I'd say that's one tough standard to meet, and will sort out all the idiots, all the confused, and all the perverts.
The quoted case of the "lesbian" is also a typically silly annecdote. This is one case that has been reported subjectively, in the opinion of the indvidual being interviewed. There are retards of all types and colours in this world- no less transgendered ones. Sadly, because of our status, these cases surface far more in the popular media, regardless of whether they are relevant to the legislation being covered.
The legislation in Britain came about because my country was breaking European Law- it was infringing on people's Human Rights by requiring people to reveal personal details about their past to people. In our case, it is our former sex, our former names, and the attachment of a stigma that is innappropriate. Law has been changed throughout Europe to care for our wellbeing- something everyone has a right to in a democracy.
Transgendered people specifically need the ability to be considered female or male under such circumstances because their health and wellbeing are at stake, they need to be able to persue permenancy of their gender role and some do not wish to persue surgery at all due to insufficient funding or they cannot accept the risk of complication involved.
This legislation actually helps transgendered people pursue the permenancy of their gender role and prohibits people from taking advantage of such a status to deceive people. Transsexual people overwhelmingly are honest with the gender they identify with. Our aim is to be the person we are expected to be by judgement of our appearance. People see that I have breasts, long hair, fair complexion and are met with the corresponding manner when they socialise with me.
My girlfriend is fully aware of my past (having known me since I had even begun treatment) and is fully supportive of my social and sexual transition. My friends are all open an honest and have accepted me to a respectable level.
My work collegues are very professional and supportive. Policy that was created specifically for me (I was the first transsexual person my company has employed) was put into good use when another transsexual woman was employed shortly after I returned to university.
Legislation similar to this is commonplace throughout Europe, in a high number of member countries. Society isn't collapsing here, neither will it in New York. New York is an incredibly metrolpolitan city, it will embrace diversity. This law is to protect a minority from discrimination, this is the process of democracy and law. If you speak out against the purpose of this law without truely understanding the benefit, you are unjustly attacking a minority of people. Apartheid was abolished to let black people to have the same rights and use the same public conveniences as white people- transsexual people should be given the right to be treated as the sex they have proven they are.
Legally, I'm a woman. Socially I'm a woman. Sexually I am a woman. Genitally I am not yet a woman. Genetically, I will always be a man.
People don't see my genitals or my genetics, arguably I am a woman in society. I have a girlfriend so I am not looking for a partner. I have legally changed my name, I am not able to benefit from my change of gender role fraudulantly. There is not one reason why what is in my pants or what I write on forms is of any consequence to anyone else.
Legally, I'm a woman. But in reality, I am as well.
It makes me feel bad I said that. I'm a dumb 15 year old who doesn't quite accept things the way he should yet. . Sorry if what I say anywhere offends anyone.
Randy53215
Posts: 562/726 |
Originally posted by Arwon
This of course raises the issue of why, exactly, do we have separate bathrooms for the different genders. Why not unisex bathrooms? We could just as easily have one big bathroom that was all cubicles. Toilets are pretty much the last gendered spaces left in society and I'm not sure there's a need for them, aside from socially instilled modesty.
I'm given to understand most toilets in Eastern Europe, for example, are unisex.
*shrug*
America has perverts and a lot of sex offenders.... thats why. |
Jomb
Posts: 387/448 |
I, for one, really dont care what bathroom people use. I could care less if there are women in the men's restroom. Maybe I'd care if there were no stalls and just a big open room with a row of toilets, but then i would'nt really want to use a restroom like that with other men either.
Is this law just for restrooms? Or does it also apply to other things.. like could one partner in a homosexual relationship claim the other gender and allow them to get a regular marriage? (assuming NY has no gay marriage already)
Or, could a man claiming a female identity get sent to a women's prison? |
Rydain
Posts: 572/633 |
Thank you for your perspective, Kas. I can never explain the issue of transgender as well as someone who actually lives it, but I am strongly against the idea of a black and white gender binary because it has been pretty well debunked.
For those of you who think that genitals dictate gender, what do you make of intersexed people who are born with ambiguous genitalia? In many cases, intersexed people have been assigned one gender or another via genital surgery at birth, and they grew up feeling a strong disconnect between their assigned gender and who they felt they actually were.
Chromosomes aren't a gold standard of gender determination, either. There are women with XY chromosomes. Human embryos develop as female by default, and they are steered down the male path by the Y chromosome. If that chromosome never activates, the embryo will continue to develop as female.
For the most part, the gender that people feel they are matches the gender that their body appears to be, but for some, it's not that simple. People should be able to live as they wish as long as they aren't hurting anyone else, and I never understood the hoopla around issues of gender bending. If you go home with someone who looks like a woman, she never tells you that she has male genitalia, and you find out the hard way, that's deception on her part, not an inherent problem with transsexuality or cross-dressing.
I agree with those who think that, for the most part, single-gender bathrooms are silly. Especially nonsensical are single-occupant bathrooms labeled with a gender. I can understand that people could feel awkward in certain communal bathroom situations if the opposite gender were around (for example, say a woman gets her period unprepared and would feel weird asking about sanitary products in front of the guy washing his hands at the sink), but if you're the only one in the bathroom - ever - that's completely irrelevant. Why not just make the bathrooms available and leave it at that? Is a man going to get cooties if there's a long line for the single-occupant men's room and he decides to use the women's room instead? |
Boom.dk
Posts: 311/356 |
I think it's a nice idea. There would be some minor problems, but I don't see why it wouldn't work out. Look on the bright side: A lot of people will feel better about themselves. |
Ziff
Posts: 1293/1800 |
Originally posted by Kasumi-Astra
...And the conversation is just as bad 
There is conversation? wtf |
Kasumi-Astra
Posts: 146/258 |
...And the conversation is just as bad |
Glyphodon
Posts: 474/536 |
Women's bathrooms smell as bad as the men's? I am thoroughly disillusioned.  |
Kasumi-Astra
Posts: 145/258 |
Originally posted by ibz10g
Come on. Think about it logically. You meet someone who looks like a girl. You take her home. She tells you "just a minute", then goes into the bathroom. You're feeling rather 'happy', so you go in to the bathroom only to find her standing up using the toilet.
I don't know about you, but that's definately not my cup of tea.
Transgendered people aren't out to stalk you, fuck's sake. Nobody has any responsibility to diverge any details about their past or medical history. I'm protected by law in Great Britain from anybody who tries to forcefully expose the fact that I am undergoing treatment for Gender Identity Disorder, and that I am "biologically" male.
I've used the women's toilets and the world hasn't come to an end. It's a smelly shithole just like the Gents. Yet, I would get thrown out of the Gents just as quick as the Women's for the way I look- so what should I do?
How would you enforce a law that prohibited me from entering Women's loos if I already can and do without a problem? Hell, I've been swimming without raising an eyebrow!
The legislation is designed to benefit transsexual people, like myself, who are undergoing psychiatric and hormonal treatment. To qualify, you must prove that you have lived in the role of the opposite gender for two years- you can't do it on a whim, you can't claim you have the right until it is granted to you. You must also have the recommendation of a certified psycihiatric professionnal to qualify first. I'd say that's one tough standard to meet, and will sort out all the idiots, all the confused, and all the perverts.
The quoted case of the "lesbian" is also a typically silly annecdote. This is one case that has been reported subjectively, in the opinion of the indvidual being interviewed. There are retards of all types and colours in this world- no less transgendered ones. Sadly, because of our status, these cases surface far more in the popular media, regardless of whether they are relevant to the legislation being covered.
The legislation in Britain came about because my country was breaking European Law- it was infringing on people's Human Rights by requiring people to reveal personal details about their past to people. In our case, it is our former sex, our former names, and the attachment of a stigma that is innappropriate. Law has been changed throughout Europe to care for our wellbeing- something everyone has a right to in a democracy.
Transgendered people specifically need the ability to be considered female or male under such circumstances because their health and wellbeing are at stake, they need to be able to persue permenancy of their gender role and some do not wish to persue surgery at all due to insufficient funding or they cannot accept the risk of complication involved.
This legislation actually helps transgendered people pursue the permenancy of their gender role and prohibits people from taking advantage of such a status to deceive people. Transsexual people overwhelmingly are honest with the gender they identify with. Our aim is to be the person we are expected to be by judgement of our appearance. People see that I have breasts, long hair, fair complexion and are met with the corresponding manner when they socialise with me.
My girlfriend is fully aware of my past (having known me since I had even begun treatment) and is fully supportive of my social and sexual transition. My friends are all open an honest and have accepted me to a respectable level.
My work collegues are very professional and supportive. Policy that was created specifically for me (I was the first transsexual person my company has employed) was put into good use when another transsexual woman was employed shortly after I returned to university.
Legislation similar to this is commonplace throughout Europe, in a high number of member countries. Society isn't collapsing here, neither will it in New York. New York is an incredibly metrolpolitan city, it will embrace diversity. This law is to protect a minority from discrimination, this is the process of democracy and law. If you speak out against the purpose of this law without truely understanding the benefit, you are unjustly attacking a minority of people. Apartheid was abolished to let black people to have the same rights and use the same public conveniences as white people- transsexual people should be given the right to be treated as the sex they have proven they are.
Legally, I'm a woman. Socially I'm a woman. Sexually I am a woman. Genitally I am not yet a woman. Genetically, I will always be a man.
People don't see my genitals or my genetics, arguably I am a woman in society. I have a girlfriend so I am not looking for a partner. I have legally changed my name, I am not able to benefit from my change of gender role fraudulantly. There is not one reason why what is in my pants or what I write on forms is of any consequence to anyone else.
Legally, I'm a woman. But in reality, I am as well. |
Koitenshin +∞
Posts: 655/873 |
Well I have 180 degree peripheral vision...that is the main reason why I flat out refuse to use a urinal. |
Ailure
Posts: 2085/2602 |
Yeah, I'm all for unisex bathrooms. :/ I can't really see any reason for seperate bathrooms in a modern society, maybe just a seperate room for urinal... but then I wouldn't mis them if they were taken away as I never use them.  |
Skreename
Posts: 1345/1427 |
Originally posted by ibz10g
Come on. Think about it logically. You meet someone who looks like a girl. You take her home. She tells you "just a minute", then goes into the bathroom. You're feeling rather 'happy', so you go in to the bathroom only to find her standing up using the toilet.
I don't know about you, but that's definately not my cup of tea.
You don't really consider that to be a valid argument for this, do you? Because it'd be possible to have happen whether this particular law was in effect or not. |
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