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| 0 users currently in SMW Hacking. |
| User | Post |
| pikaguy900 Posts: 429/748 |
Actually, at the end of JoM4 (The part that has the Keyhole), you HAVE to move around on that Skull Platform, or you'll get hit by the Piranha Plants coming out of the pipes. Seriously, I couldn't even get past that part without getting hit. O_o But that's just ME. I get hit A LOT in games. Especially Sonic Rush. O_o Anyways, I'll see what I can do. But I'm not going to do everything you said. I can add more enemies to that last part, but I can't shorten it- It's short already. |
| x1372 Posts: 18/25 |
The issue I meant with jungle of mesh four is a common problem in a lot of hacks. Buzzy Beetles, Bob-ombs, and stunned goombas can all be carired through a pipe. When this happens, you get a permanently stunned buzzy shell, bob-omb (won't explode), or goomba. If this happens, and you go to a section of the level that does NOT use the same tileset, the sprite that you are carrying will be gibberish. In some cases this is a nearly unavoidable problem, but in yours it would be very simple to fix. You use the same sprite tileset through the entire jungle of mesh 4, except at the very end wth the goalpost. If you just used the underground spriteset at that spot, you could concievably carry a stunned buzzy beetle through the entire level without any graphical issues. The only other issue with it is that you have a different sprite palette through the second part of the cavern (the forced movement part) so the carried beetle shell turns grey for that section.
This issue actually ended up causing problems in the hack I have in progress too and a lot of others (including demo world). It's often overlooked, but in your case one very minor change with no ill effect could completely solve the problem. On the passivity issue, its actually a pretty tough thing to tackle with moving platforms. It's pretty hard to make it non-passive wtihout being too difficult. For that reason, even in levels that I work on with the expressed purpose of using dangling ropes or line guided platforms, I tend to only use short strings of them between other obstacles. It's hard to find an elegant way to make it interesting wtihout being too difficult - I remember as a kid being unable to, for example, finish way cool without taking the blue yoshi exit. If nothing else, toss a grinder or chainsaw or SOMETHING on the line periodically for the player to avoid. Add in a thwomp somewhere. Ideally, the player should have to at least twitch once every 5 seconds. Look to a few of the original levels for guidance - what nintendo did with their line-guided things (usually) kept things interesting. There's nothing INHERENTLY wrong with SMW's moving platforms. however, the way they are implemented by almost everyone (including the SMW designers, the original skulls on lava level was a snore too, as were the bonus areas that included it) leaves much to be desired. If I do include those platforms in my own hack, the player will at the very least have to deal wtih a lot of bats and a blargg during their (inevitably short) ride. As stated, all the other major issues appear to have been taken care of. The ghost house and beetle shell things are very minor issues at most, the pipes is something you can easily have fixed by the next release. Just concentrate on keeping the player from long forced standstills and you're in great shape. |
| srothroc Posts: 40/56 |
So make a regular platform. They can stand around as long as they want and they can move on whenever they want. Don't force them to stand around as long as YOU want on a skull-on-lava raft. |
| pikaguy900 Posts: 427/748 |
I haven't gotten around to putting in SWR's updated pipes made by FuSoYa. Meh. I know that glitch, and I can't fix it until I insert the fixed pipes. Ignore it. I also know about the Ghost House exit glitch, but I'd have to shorten the exit if I wanted to destroy it.  I'm not sure what you mean for Jungle of Mesh 4. Next demo, I'm TAKING OUT THAT KEY. Man. That bugs you all, doesn't it? That's what it was SUPPOSED to do. And every last one of you fell for it!  It's outlived its purpose, though. I'll try to fix those things, but if I had no passivity, the hack would be TOO HARD. I mean, do you expect me to make it to where you have NO time to just sit around and take a breath? |
| x1372 Posts: 17/25 |
Ok, comments...
Level 1 - not bad, though the walk through wall thing is kinda weak. Level 2 - you said you're changing it, I say thank goodness. Additionally, the underground part is very... passive. Passivity is bad. Level 3 - your pipes seriously need work. I try to enter a vertical one carrying a key and I get forced out of it every time. Ghost house - Interesting "secret" at the bottom left, a bit hard to get to though. You have graphical errors with the ghost house exit, it keeps having bits of it follow you as you continue on. Level 4 - are you planning on a complete removal of yoshi? if not, this could be trouble. Also, you might want to use the underground spriteset at your ending, because the buzzy beetle I carried through the level (color changes for the second part) became utter gibberish at the goalpost. Issue with the keyhole already noticed. Furthermore, don't overuse the skulls on lava thing, those things IMO are one of the worst ideas Nintendo ever came up with... PASSIVITY IS BAD. Castle intro was good. Once you got on the ride platform though... ugh. I didn't push a button, just sat there. Didn't have to worry about anything until the dry bones (whose bone incidentally is nearly impossible to avoid). I dunno if the "hey I can get on top of the roof" by the question mark was intentional or not but its pointless so it'd be better if you couldn't. Again, nothing wrong with platform rides, but for crap's sake make them require you to do something. If you ever can go 20 seconds without pressing a button on a platform ride and come out ok, something seriously needs changing in the level. Interesting start, my #1 thing to say is to make sure that the player has to do SOMETHING during those passive parts. Just riding on a platform for long amounts of time is monotonous. |
| pikaguy900 Posts: 426/748 |
Well, I'm not making it shorter. It's a TALL castle. Castles are usually long for some odd reason, but they look more like Towers on the overworld, so that's what I'm giving. And I happen to like jumping platformers. It's a MARIO game, for Pete's sake. There has to be at least ONE level number that's only jumping! |
| Joshua368 Posts: 26/89 |
Originally posted by pikaguy900 No, it was too tall already. Unless you can make the ride unique and fun the whole way up (including the part you already made), you're probably better off shortening it. Originally posted by pikaguy900 Maybe, for one small part of it. But if the whole thing is just jumping and avoiding bullet bills, it'll still be as monotous as ever. And there is such a thing as too hard, so keep that in mind. Enjoyability should come first. |
| pikaguy900 Posts: 425/748 |
Heh, I DID add an extra section to JoM1. Ever wondered what's beyond the giant gap where the arrow points down and ends in a Yoshi Coin? I placed the key back there instead. Plus, to get out, you must not only use a Blue Shell, you must also traverse a Note Block maze where you can bounce on all sides of the Note Blocks. O_o Fortunately, since it's a Bonus Area, it has 3 extra Lives for you. 
As for the vertical Tower ride, I think I'll make it TALLER so I can add more in. XD For the second half of the first level, I think I can add in some distractions. Maybe a Bullet Bill generator that generates them from all sides. (Except Diagonally.) |
| FirePhoenix0 Posts: 62/102 |
I have to agree about the first level. There was too much jumping across platforms. The whole second half of the level was just jumping across until the end.
For ideas of what to do, throw in hills, walls, use the triangle blocks, make little bonus areas to go into and come out a little bit later in the level. Do things like you did the first part of the castle. I enjoyed it because you go all the way one way and then back the other way, but there were plenty of distractions along the way to make it fun. For the rest of the castle, I'm not going to say take out the platform ride. But maybe you could add a section where you actually move around a bit. Like, jump up some platforms to the next platform ride or you could make it so the platform goes through an area where you can't follow it and have to catch up to it in a little bit. Overall, just explore any ideas that hit you, try things that are strange, play around with palettes, don't be afraid to go back and redo levels. Another thing to try is creating your own tiles with the 16x16 Editor. I've been doing plenty of that for my game. Half of page 0x300-3FF is taken up with tiles I've custom made. Most importantly, don't be afraid to take a lot of time when designing a level. I spend an average of 4 to 6 1/2 hours per level. I actually spent an hour today creating just one room in my Ghost House. An level that has a lot of time put into it is a good level.  |
| Joshua368 Posts: 24/89 |
Well, it's kind of hard. You just gotta be creative, you know? Mix up the challenges, think up new puzzles for each step of the way. Don't force the player to do the same exact thing over and over again for too long. In your first level, it was almost nothing but jumping challenges. Long stretches of just jumping from platform to platform. Now there's nothing wrong with that in essense, but you should try to mix it up a bit. Maybe make many of the platforms behave differently, or put some enemies on the platforms. Maybe throw in a mesh.
Keep things unique not only from level to level, but within the levels themselves. Picking a theme for a level is fine, but you have to cover a wide range of it. And yes, it takes time. It takes me about two to three hours to make a single level. But really, nothing excellent is made without lots of time and effort. |
| pikaguy900 Posts: 421/748 |
Okay, I need everyone to tell me every single place I got repetitive (EXCEPT the Castle and Jungle of Mesh 2) so I may fix them. JoM2 has been fixed, but I WILL NOT take out the platform ride in the West Tower of Jungle Castle. I was going to make that level be a big tall race to the top using a moving Layer 2, but since Layer 2 scrolls up if it moves up and down, that wasn't going to work. Or maybe that was Layer 3... I can't remember. XD Anyways, for the Castle, just tell me what I should add to make it less repetitive (besides Screen-Scrolling pipes- They push you out at the top. O_o). Oh, you know, I think I forgot to add the vertical-level pipe patch to my hack. XD By the way, any tips on how to find the Pipe Code and Table after inserting them if you forgot where they are? XD |
| Joshua368 Posts: 12/89 |
I'm not sure if you know this already, but from the start (before you unlock it), you can go right and take the secret path to the ghost house... and then all the way to the castle.
Anyway, as a lot of people have said, your problem is in repition. Can't you make the levels more dynamic? Almost all of the levels were boring... you took one or two different challenges and then just repeated them over and over to make a full level. You have to be more interesting! Think up many puzzles, many challenges, and merge them into one level. Never stay on the same thing too long. The old Level 2 is a prime example of this problem, but it's hardly the only case. Hate to say it, but I got bored and quit this thing. |
| pikaguy900 Posts: 375/748 |
Originally posted by FirePhoenix0 Why did you say that? That was supposed to be secret! XD Oh well. I took that out anyways. First of all, at first, it wasn't on purpose. I just put the Upside-Down Piranha Plant above the Keyhole, not knowing it'd make the Keyhole go away. Get rid of the Plant, Keyhole comes back. After finding that, I purposely left it in, seeing as it's a nice way to hide a Keyhole. But I took it out, since not many people would have a Fire Flower by then, and they couldn't bring a Shell, seeing as they'd have the Key... |
| FirePhoenix0 Posts: 39/102 |
Originally posted by pikaguy900I hadn't noticed what you had written about Jungle of Mesh 2 so that's my fault for commenting. That's good that you've decided to change it.Originally posted by FirePhoenix0 I found the secret exit in JoM4. But I had to defeat the Pirhana Plants first to make the keyhole re-appear! Was that idea on purpose? |
| pikaguy900 Posts: 371/748 |
Originally posted by FirePhoenix0 My comments are in bold. Originally posted by KPhoenix Not until Demo 2. Why would I show pictures of an area I already showed pictures of? Besides, I don't want to show off too many levels. Also, has anyone found the secret exit in Jungle of Mesh 4? |
| FirePhoenix0 Posts: 37/102 |
Ok, I finished playing and here are my comments:
In Jungle of Mesh 3, is the key there for a reason? I carried it with me but found no keyhole. Jungle of Mesh 2 was annoying. To find the exit from the first area I had to do a lot of guesswork. I thought the fake wall trick was interesting and should be used in more games, but not to the extent of the level in that other game that's been mentioned. The castle seemed overly long but that's only my thoughts on it. Overall, good job. It was interesting to see that the first boss wasn't who you expected to see.  |
| KPhoenix Posts: 27/112 |
More screenies, please. |
| pikaguy900 Posts: 370/748 |
For your information, I already put platforms in between each Mesh. In fact, there's not much Mesh left. Only skilled players will be able to get 1-Ups by bouncing on enemies this time (hopefully). On a side note, I'm working on Lime Caverns 1 now. It starts you... WITHIN A WALL!!! Muahaha. By the way, there's a bug I can't seem to bust. When you beat Jungle of Mesh 3 and get the secret exit in Jungle of Mesh 1, try going back and forth past all 4 levels opened (Jungle of Mesh 1, 2, and 3 and Jungle Ghost Hut). Eventually, you should walk a little bit past Jungle Ghost Hut, and can't move anywhere. If you try starting the level, you'll instead go to Level 0. Because I can't bust this bug, I'm going to try to find a way to get out of Level 0 if the need arises. Maybe a pit near the edge, or a block that takes you out of the level instantly, or even a side exit. I don't know, but it can't interfere with the actual Bonus Game. Any ideas? Also, I know that for some odd reason, this bug only happens when you enter Jungle of Mesh 4 and get the Invisible Mushroom from the first ? Block you find. Invisible Mushroom is a related bug. Sometimes when you hit all 3 ? Blocks in Jungle of Mesh 4, the Mushroom will disappear all of a sudden. You can grab it, but you won't know where it is until you get it, or its sprite flickers into existance again. Oh yeah, afterwards, you can grab both the Key AND the Green Shell and hold them at the same time. It'd be fun to do, but beware- Put down one, and you can't use the bug again, which is good, because I don't like it. Anyways, I need some help on busting that bug. |
| srothroc Posts: 37/56 |
Like I said earlier, you can solve two problems at once by putting in stepping-stone platforms or something. Hitting the ground destroys your ability to chain kills, and the platforms will also vary the experience and challenge.
Just because the original SMW did something doesn't mean that it's a good idea. >.> |
| pikaguy900 Posts: 338/748 |
Originally posted by ibz10g Yes, and hopefully, that won't happen again. Originally posted by wtfweb Uh... I can't take out the pipes. I'll change that. But why? The original SMW did that same thing with the pipes! Though, they did it with less pipes... Go figure. |
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